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Mephisto wrote:Kuseru, I am wondering if you have assembled "definitive" martial art moves lists and how many additional moves would most martial arts have?

I think I'll address this in two parts.
Q: Have I assembled "definitive" martial art move lists.
A: Of course.

Q: How many additional moves would most martial arts have?
A: Huh? Moves in addition to what?

The reason I ask is I'm wondering how beefed up some of the styles would be and how that would impact quickie, basic, and expert hand to hand styles. Also would it be made to be comparable to Defensive and Fast Combat and Aggressive and Deadly combat in terms of total bonuses?

Probably not, D&F and A&D combat are pretty topped out for bonuses. Of the existing N&S/MC styles, only Drunken Style and Monkey Style are comparable.

Just wondering what direction you would be taking it.

That's a long involved answer, mostly because I'm playing around with two or three options in which to take styles overall.

Also, how many additional martial art powers would you have, and would some of them be expanded and clarified?

I'd probably aim for a basic book target of 100 MAPs, and several of them (like Zanshin) would be expanded & clarified.

Same with a master skill list, and any other section of the book currently under-developed or omitted entirely.

The Master Skill List ?

Okay, a quick rundown of what I'm playing around with doing for N&S3E.

Expanded N&S terms
Slightly revised and expanded Attributes section (including penalties, actual rules for exertion & fatigue, as well as additional physical limitations)
Slightly revised random MA table
Expanded Country of Origin table
Modified Weight table (slight modification)
Removal of so-called "Seven Principles of Bushido"
Revised & Expanded Experience Table

Expanded & Revised Skill Programs (aiming for a total of 100-200, currently playing with 150), including new skill program categories.
Huge new master list (with percentages) of applicable skills, and their descriptions
Skill penalties
Rules for Learning New Skills.

Major OCC restructuring and overhaul...this is still undergoing several design issues, but in general, expect to see most of the existing classes dropped or consolidated (for instance, it never made any sense to me for there to be a whole category of Freelance spies, that could have been summed up with one O.C.C.) and the inclusion of some much needed classes (like an actual "Ninja" O.C.C. ... what kind of game calling itself Ninjas & Superspies doesn't provide a Ninja OCC?).

Expanded and slightly revised (both to reflect the much needed "required skills" and based on the new/revised skill programs) Cover Identities (up to 100, just to have a nice even number).

Revised, expanded, and updated Agency Creation Rules.

Revised and updated Supervehicle Construction Rules (let's face it, too many vehicles and modifications get left out, the weapons are fairly obsolete and limited, and there's some much needed missing info like TMF).


Revised Hand to Hand Combat Skills (Kiss the Agent styles goodbye entirely)

(After much consideration) A total of 50 martial art styles...which ones and how they'll be presented is still something that's being worked on.

100 MAPs. Inclusion of the obvious Mystic China additions, as well as some new MAPs to add more flavor.

Majorly overhauled, updated, and expanded Hand to Hand Combat & Ranged Combat sections, including a compiled SDC table that is longer than one page (with three columns).

More appropriate and accurate ancient weapons, as well as martial art uniforms and other miscellaneous updates. (Expect to see some ninja equipment expansion as well).

Guns will be updated, likely expanded, but exactly how many and what will be included is up in the air at this time.

Explosives, poisons, biological & chemical weapons, non-lethal weapons, and other environment weapons will be heavily expanded and updated.

Gadgets will also receive a major overhaul instead of the simple "you can add a gun, microchip, etc" minor modifications from the stuff PB gives you.

Expanded and updated Equipment (not much to this really, mostly a compilation of Palladium's most useful existing equipment lists combined with some much needed spy, military, police, criminal, and martial artist equipment).

------------------
[Stuff likely to be seperated into a GM's Guide due to the amount of material]
Miscellaneous Rules to expand options. (Perception, vision & hearing, actual heat & cold effects to make Kangeiko/Shochu Geiko actually effective, some other odds and ends.)

Campaign and Setting ideas/information (mostly a quick guide to the different things you can do) including basic world information (similar to the HU hotspots idea, but redone to be more useful for N&S's setting)

Conversions (heavily updated, expanded, detailed, and actually useful, likely with several new O.C.C.s for magic/psionic/bionic-cybernetic/superpowered/nonhuman combinations with N&S)

Updated Organizations (Given a 20 year update to reflect what's happened to them since the 80s ) and adventures, with some new adventures (like Crouching Tiger, Shining Dragon and possibly 101 adventure ideas)

A glossary (possibly)
Index (No "Quick Find Table" since they aren't very helpful)
Possibly a character sheet as well.

Some general changes include different artwork (I've culled what I consider the worst of the artwork and added some from various other books that was well done and appropriate), a different layout (I keep one consideration in mind for how the book should be layed out, start at the beginning and go to the end when creating a character), a larger page count (likely two books instead of one...at least for the initial books, further books will likely follow), and of course, I'll be making sure it gets editted.

goodlun wrote:Are you going to try and make the Martial Arts more like there real world counter parts?

Not really, I go for the approach of making the best representation of the style in an interesting manner, rather than total accuracy.

I would also like to see a real version of Judo but Jujitsu slightly revised with out the Alignment restrictions would be alright. I we have god knows how many differant forms of Kung Fu I don't think its too much to ask for a few differant forms of Jujitsu(BJJ, Judo, normal Jujitsu)

No, we won't see BJJ.

No, we won't see BJJ.

Why not?
I'd think it has as much validity as any other martial art style.

This sounds awesome. Does it really need a GM's guide though? Can there be a core book with most of that info, then a few other books to expand upon the concepts presented in teh main book? Like a book for expanding the martial arts, a book for expanding cybernetics and gadgetry, etcetera. Basically make the first, main book completely playable on its own (like the palladium books are suppossed to be) and then have some suppliments that expand signifigantly upon the major sections of the main book.

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:No, we won't see BJJ.

Somewhere, greese1 is crying...

Glistam wrote:This sounds awesome. Does it really need a GM's guide though? Can there be a core book with most of that info, then a few other books to expand upon the concepts presented in teh main book? Like a book for expanding the martial arts, a book for expanding cybernetics and gadgetry, etcetera. Basically make the first, main book completely playable on its own (like the palladium books are suppossed to be) and then have some suppliments that expand signifigantly upon the major sections of the main book.

My notes, exclusive of artwork currently sit at 979 pages. Do you think that's all going to fit in one book? Neither do I. Thus I'm looking at doing at least two (more likely three) basic books, before I start with the expanded material.

I've read Atlas Shrugged, and that was 1083 pages.

I agree though, one good main book, and at least two sourcebooks (one for Martial Arts and Artists, and one for Espionage) would be the way to go.

Sentinel wrote:I've read Atlas Shrugged, and that was 1083 pages.

I agree though, one good main book, and at least two sourcebooks (one for Martial Arts and Artists, and one for Espionage) would be the way to go.

That 979 pages is exclusive of the extra material for martial artists and espionage.

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

Sentinel wrote:I've read Atlas Shrugged, and that was 1083 pages.

I agree though, one good main book, and at least two sourcebooks (one for Martial Arts and Artists, and one for Espionage) would be the way to go.

That 979 pages is exclusive of the extra material for martial artists and espionage.

Good lord, man.
It's a game sourcebook: it doesn't need to actually teach the full-on histories and present How-To lessons.

Sentinel wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

Sentinel wrote:I've read Atlas Shrugged, and that was 1083 pages.

I agree though, one good main book, and at least two sourcebooks (one for Martial Arts and Artists, and one for Espionage) would be the way to go.

That 979 pages is exclusive of the extra material for martial artists and espionage.

Good lord, man.
It's a game sourcebook: it doesn't need to actually teach the full-on histories and present How-To lessons.

Actually it's a game main book (though obviously more than one in this case). It's not additive material for N&S, it replaces the existing stuff.

Did you have any problems with combat, since Palladium can't manage to keep it consistent?

goodlun wrote:So are you having any troubles keeping it Megaverse compatible and still being able make it work the way you want it to work?

Not after the Kuseru Kenobi Project, no.

Glistam wrote:Did you have any problems with combat, since Palladium can't manage to keep it consistent?

What remaining problems I have with combat are in the process of being overhauled. With dozens of books having different combat rules, it's easy to pick and chose what works best, and modify the remaining problem areas.

I like to see Npc,s Organizations go up to 12.

They can get ther own book.

goodlun wrote:You know what I would really like to see is some rules for combining martial arts its been asked for time and time again and should be included in 3rd edition. I mean seriously if you know 2 MAs don't you think you are going to fight in some way that is a coagulation of the two?

I can see it for some styles, but not this "coagulation of the two" just because you know two styles.

Originally posted by goodlun.
You know what I would really like to see is some rules for combining martial arts its been asked for time and time again and should be included in 3rd edition. I mean seriously if you know 2 MAs don't you think you are going to fight in some way that is a coagulation of the two?

I'd say it depends on the character.