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After the Bomb's main theme has always been about the struggle of mutant animals (anthropomorhs or furries) to rise from the ruin of 'the Crash' of human society.

Wether that struggle be against the remnants of humanity, other mutant animals, technology, or nature; one thing that has rarely been touched on (discounting animal psyonics) is the supernatural, magic, mysticism, etc...

The four times magic has been brought up in this setting were in Mutants Down Under (Bio-Manipulation: Create Crystal Self), Mutants in Avalon (the Druids and Earth Magic), and Transdimentional TMNT (Wizard Magic and Time Magic).

Unfortunately, each of these instances of magic in the AtB setting is very different from one another in cost, power, and mechanics:

Bio-Manipulation: CCS was treated as a psyonic power (35 BIO-E) and cost hp to perform/use.

Druidic Magic cost nothing except a higher leveling curve (+1000 XP / Level) but their powers continue to grow as they level--gaining druid magics, skills, and powers. Then at eighth level they gain the ability to cast Earth Magics & Rituals.

In TransD-TMNT your character had the option of becoming an apprentice Time Lord by being adopted by a Time Lord (Costs 25 BIO-E), or becoming a Wizard by being a mage's familiar (Costs 30 BIO-E). Both types include a Wizard/Magic Combat Table (just like the Hand to Hand Combat Tables) indicating how many spells (attacks) may be cast per melee and any bonuses gained per character level.

One thing that is not included in any of these books is ISP or PPE, the staple of magic in all other Palladium Books that include magic. However, since all of the books I have mentioned are part of the AtB 1st Edition lexicon, should any of them be used to formulate the application of magic in the 2nd Edition setting? Or should we consider adopting the ISP/PPE standard that the rest of the Palladium Multiverse uses?

By moving to the ISP/PPE standard it would be much easier to port over characters and creatures from Beyond the Supernatural, Rifts, Heroes Unlimited, and Palladium Fantasy. Something that has never exactly been an smooth process.

Of course, one could argue that magic, ISP, and PPE don’t have a place in AtB. That may be the case with some AtB games, campaigns and/or story tellers, but that shouldn’t disallow it as an option for those who wish to bring something more supernatural to their games.

PPE wasnt really part of the Palladium lexicon back when ATB was first in publication, so that it isnt in its magic system is reasonable. I had an idea for what I called After the Rifts, wherein the Crash caused the small-scale eruption of the ley-lines, and came up with a Magician apprenticeship for it... the idea was to use BTS1 numbers as being more in-line with ATB than Rifts or PF.

well, in ATB2 you have mention of shamans in the artic that employ 2 varieties of magic, "that that is with nature" and "that which is against nature"


or something like that.

glitterboy2098 wrote:well, in ATB2 you have mention of shamans in the artic that employ 2 varieties of magic, "that that is with nature" and "that which is against nature"


or something like that.

Yes.

In most cultures that employed shamen and medicine men, there seemed to be the divide between the good magic and bad magic. The good magic was centered on healing and harmony, while the bad magic (refered to as witchcraft or bad medicine) was used to harm and dominate.

I said yes because of the already present Druidic magic. Transdimensional TMNT crosses over nicely if you're willing to go that route with your players. In the past I've occasionally (rather, rarely)allowed NPC villains to use magic out of PFRPG, but not at a high level...it was more of a "holy crap...that guy's flinging fire at us from his fingertips thing".

mutants in avalon had druidic magic,

IIRC it was alot of ritual stuff, so no big SFX but not entirely useless.

Nope, if I want magic I will play Rifts.

I would say Yes, but make extremely rare, almost a mutation in itself. I agree with Matt-NZ, trading Bio-E for Magick capability is a fair call.

If Tech was broken down a little more I'd say yes - the Animals have lost their science and without it, have resorted to magic.

Otherwise, I'd say no.

Trooper Jim wrote:Nope, if I want magic I will play Rifts.

As with all things, magic would only be used at the discretion of the GM.

Now when I talk about magic, I'm not necessarily talking about the wizards of Palladium or Rifts. That sort of thing would need some different setting entirely.

I would think more low-key magic like healing, conjuring, augury, and curses would make colourful little additions to a game. But make it expensive or, like BookWyrm says, extremely rare. What if you had to buy PPE with BIO-E.

One class I'm look at is the Shaman OCC that appeared in PFRPG® Book 3: Adventures on the High Seas (2nd Edition). I'm not sure how useful it would be as a PC, but would make for an interesting Wolf Barbarian NPC.

Another option would be any of the Psychic classes from Beyond the Supernatural™ (1st or 2nd Edition). All that would be needed is conversion of ISP to BIO-E costs for the psionic powers listed within. Maybe include a "Touched" or "Gifted" background for those with these powers that would include some extra BIO-E that could only be spent on these powers.

Of the four magic categories from either edition of Heroes Unlimited™ I would probably say the Mysticly Bestowed would be the best choice. Or, if you want to be tricky, go with the Enchanted Object and have the powers powered by some advanced (or alien) technology (i.e. nanites).

mystic bestowed are really powerful... so it kinda goes against your other comments of "low key" magic...


IIRC, the Mutants in Avalon stuff was pretty low key,

personally, i like the idea of a kinda 'behind the scenes' war between magic and tech...

where tech is failing (with the fall of humanity) and the survivors are re-learning the 'old ways' (or new ones) of using mystic energy to suppliment for the lack of technology...

as for specific sources of powers, Beyond is prolly one of the best... depending on the level you want it at, Between the Shadows (Nightbane) has some nice Psychic classes that would work nicely (like an amped up version of the Genius and the psi-mechanic... people who'd be trying to bring back the ways of tech but still treat tech like magic, so that's what it becomes to them...)

tho it all kinda depends on the level of magic you wanna deal with...
really, variants of the PFRPG psychic classes might be best if you wanna stay low-key as they're powerful, but specialized (just ignore the classes that get super psychics off the bat)

My suggestion was to base it off the 1st edition BTS Arcanist... 6D6 PPE at 1st level, not much in the way of spells, etc.

I feel that in this world magic should be played down to the point of almost no magic. I think that the hints of what technology was before the "Big Death" and with psionic powers one could appear to be in tune with magic, but still have no real magic powers. Don't forget that we still have super powerd mutants hanging around and they to could give this appearance.

I would allow magic characters on a case by case basis in a campaign based on AtB.
If I were using AtB to round out my Rifts campaign, then I would certainly allow magic.

Trooper Jim wrote:Nope, if I want magic I will play Rifts.

Rifts is not the end-all be-all of magic characters.
Nor anything else.

Sentinel wrote:

Trooper Jim wrote:Nope, if I want magic I will play Rifts.

Rifts is not the end-all be-all of magic characters.
Nor anything else.

sigh... rifts...

"So get this... my mage can cast spells... do kung fu... and use the gunslinger's Sharpshooting (that was specifically denied to men of magic).... think i'll call him a 'Battle Magus'..."


the problem with Rifts magic (and Rifts in general) is that they don't know when to stop...
when being a juicer was a dangerous undertaking, only performed on the most desperate... it was cool...
when there were enough juicers in a single area to populate a large city... not so much...
they took a great idea (PLayers are HEROES, and thus stand out from the norm by being what they are) and made the things that made them stand out (Magic, bionics, etc...) common to everyone... then had to make a new "breed" of hero by combining the old ones (psychic juicers, gunslinging mages, blearg...) to make Heroes stand out again...

AtB is a unique enough setting that creating a kind of "mystic hero" could work without such problems... so long as it's kept isolated enough to make it special...

like.. no "schools of magic" ... use Mystic type spell casters, people who innately recall magic... or Archanists, people who've spent a lifetime to rediscover magic...

sinestus wrote:the problem with Rifts magic (and Rifts in general) is that they don't know when to stop...

My sentiments exactly...

AtB is a unique enough setting that creating a kind of "mystic hero" could work without such problems... so long as it's kept isolated enough to make it special...

like.. no "schools of magic" ... use Mystic type spell casters, people who innately recall magic... or Archanists, people who've spent a lifetime to rediscover magic...

Perfect synopsis of how it should be IMO, very nice.

There are some good magic OCCs in Rifts: The Battle Magus (and other Magus') are not among them.

the problem with Rifts magic (and Rifts in general) is that they don't know when to stop...

Most definitly.

you do realize AtB had magic origionally, right? (See: Mutants in Avalon IIRC)

No magic for me, thanks. Psionics I can see, since it's sorta from the mutation/radiation/pseudo-scientific. AtB is a low-power game, unlike Rifts, so it's best to keep things low-powered in the "superpowers" department. Small psi-powers, Mabarn crystals, "hedge-wizards" who are really minor psionicists, those all make sense. Anything more than that and the game loses the focus on Intelligent Animals.

Agreed.

Superpowers, psionics & magic should be limited to the point, but not prohibitively so, of being rare, or at best extremely uncommon. With the "Big Death", an amazing amount of information, both scientific AND mystical was lost, with the time (or 'era' if you will) between/during the start of the campaign still considered a 'dark age' if you will.
Depending on the type of study or training, I can see it being a part of the Academic Underground, but costly to take, with apprenticeship(s) lasting almost a full lifetime under a single teacher.
But this would open the door, ever so slightly, to tribal shamanic OCCs, the Native Druid OCC (perhaps one is the variant of the other?), and similar magic users.

I will wait until I see an official errata/supplement or article in The Rifter.

A while back I also dropped the idea of bringing magic into my AtB games, and instead use psionics for the shaman NPC's.

However, I've been wanting to do a fantasy anthro setting which would include magic, but would not be an AtB/TMNT spin-off.