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[biased statements]Uhm...yes and no. While N&S can add flexibility to your games, if you really want more martial arts and "cool ninja stuff" you should really see the Palladium Martial Arts Netbook [/biased statements]

Misfit KotLD wrote:If you do so, use CB1 for conversion rules. But I give a resounding hell yeah to using N&SS.

The original CB1, not the "revised" CB1.

Conversion Book One unrevised is more useful than Revised.
That said, I prefer to simply leave N&SS as is, and port it over straight into any other Palladium game I use.
Leave Chi as a separate attribute: it's based on PE, which is pretty easy to figure out.
I add two attacks per melee, same as all other Palladium characters.

I don't use MDC, so upgrading the Body Hardenings wasn't an issue for me.

DEFINATLY use martial arts in rifts. adds losts o' spice to battle and stragy.

furthermore, it gives you an excuse to force the characters to write how they got taught in their background, which in turn forces them to get creative with their character, which in turn makes for a more dynamic and realistic character.

Sentinel wrote:Conversion Book One unrevised is more useful than Revised.
That said, I prefer to simply leave N&SS as is, and port it over straight into any other Palladium game I use.

While I mostly prefer that method, some games, such as HU, NB, and Rifts require the different powers and abilities interactions to be taken into account.

Leave Chi as a separate attribute: it's based on PE, which is pretty easy to figure out.

Which makes us all wonder why PB keeps dropping the ball on it for Rifts.

I add two attacks per melee, same as all other Palladium characters.

I'd like to point out that not all Palladium characters get two attacks. IF it WAS universally applied, I don't think there'd be any problem (it would make the fights more realistic if nothing else), but since someone with no hand to hand training doesn't get TAFL (remember one attack or two non-combat actions), it's not universal.

I don't use MDC, so upgrading the Body Hardenings wasn't an issue for me.

You know, that reminds me of that idea I had to return Rifts to an actual post apocalyptic setting...

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

I don't use MDC, so upgrading the Body Hardenings wasn't an issue for me.

You know, that reminds me of that idea I had to return Rifts to an actual post apocalyptic setting...

Do tell, I like that thought. Rifts now feels a little more like early Rennisance/Age of Exploration. Everyone is crawling out of their little holes and seeing a bit wider world.

Well, I'm still ironing out the hard ideas, but basically:

Step 1: Altering the technology (scale infantry, power armor, bots & vehicles). Either do away with MDC entirely, scale things so only bots & vehicles have MDC armor/weapons, or do a 1:10:100 scale of infantry:bots:vehicles (usually the big vehicles (naval vessels, spaceships, etc) for 100 scaling), including power armor with infantry (PA should really provide nothing more than enhanced infantry armor, weapons capability (i.e. being able to carry portable crew served weapons rather than simple small arms), and mobility--sure PA weapons (and other crew served weapons) could damage bots/vehicles, but it would be on a much more limited basis, reflecting the common sense approach, small arms, forget it, no damage to bots/vehicles). In other words, infantry/PA would be single digit MDC values (for weapons & armor), Bots & smaller vehicles would be in the double digit range, and large vehicles would be in the triple digit ranges (some space ships, if big enough, would likely be in the four digit range, but this is moot for Rifts Earth itself). Also make technology fairly rare (the existing prices and step 2 will help deal with that aspect).

Step 2: Altering the Rifts nations (shrink several of them in size), break apart the Coalition States into independent "kingdoms" (i.e. Chi-Town, Iron Heart, Free Quebec, Lone Star, dump the others) and seriously reduce population numbers (1 million people in a nation being the high end...China & possibly parts of Japan & India aside). Delete the "Federation of Magic" (keep the various magic city-states however). Shrink Northern Gun & Manistique Imperium to a few cities & towns, covering maybe 50 mile area. Limit the Colorado Baronies to simple city states. Make Texas inhabited by more city states, rather than three areas of regional control. Vampire Kingdoms, Xiticix, Native American "ranges" remain untouched. Shrink the sizes of Columbia, Empire of the Sun, Arkhons, and Silver River Republics (city states only for the latter, 50 mile areas for the former). Use the Mutants in the Avalon map, adjusted for Rifts Coastlines for the British Isles (small, independent kingdoms, rather than one small kingdom...much more fun overall). Shrink the New German Republic to one or two of the old German territories (and eliminate the NGR/CS alliance). Russia can pretty much be left untouched. Shrink the Republic of Japan to one city (15 miles of rifted area, not 150), otherwise Japan is pretty much unchanged. Shrink the Phoenix Empire to the Nile River Basin. Ironically, Rifts China only needs to cut the number of humans in half, The areas can remain the same. [This increases the size of the wilderness]

Step 3: Reduce the scale & effects of the war on Tolkien (or eliminate it entirely). In other words, two city-states (Chi Town & Tolkien) going to war would likely not result in the total destruction of one or the other...too much area between them and not enough resources to get the job done.

Step 4: Kiss credits basically goodbye. Establish a monetary standard (or keep the concept of credits) for simplistic tracking purposes and stress the concept of bartering.

Step 5: Kiss "Nuclear Power Supplies" goodbye from average tech joe's supply and bring back gasoline* (or other liquid/gas fuels that are relatively common ... natural gas, alcohol, etc)...this means that more vehicles have limited operational range before requiring refueling and the nuke P/Ses are limited to "lost tech" devices. Kiss that stupid microfusion portable unit goodbye as well.
*Ironically Rifts is already supposed to have gasoline for many vehicles and the like, but with the exception of the Tampico Military Protectorate, and possibly a few other areas, we're not really given much on it's economic status (i.e. the actual prices and availability).

Step 6: Equipment breakdown & repair & modification. Overhaul how all these are handled (as well as expanding them).

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

Sentinel wrote:Conversion Book One unrevised is more useful than Revised.
That said, I prefer to simply leave N&SS as is, and port it over straight into any other Palladium game I use.

While I mostly prefer that method, some games, such as HU, NB, and Rifts require the different powers and abilities interactions to be taken into account.

For the most part that shouldn't be too difficult.

Leave Chi as a separate attribute: it's based on PE, which is pretty easy to figure out.

Which makes us all wonder why PB keeps dropping the ball on it for Rifts.

Really. How hard can it be?

I add two attacks per melee, same as all other Palladium characters.

I'd like to point out that not all Palladium characters get two attacks. IF it WAS universally applied, I don't think there'd be any problem (it would make the fights more realistic if nothing else), but since someone with no hand to hand training doesn't get TAFL (remember one attack or two non-combat actions), it's not universal.

I wasn't considering characters with no HtH training. I've never had a PC with no form of HtH, and if I generated and used an NPC with no HtH training, they were supposed to need to be rescued by the PC regularly in the first place.

Actually, I'd change HtH: Basic to Two Attacks total at level one, Assassin and Expert I'd make Three Attacks at level one, and HtH Martial Arts I would set at Four Attacks at level one.
Then, I'd leave N&SS attacks as they are printed, and add two to them.

There are always those styles like Aikido with its' Automatic Locks, that make up for only having one attack. Adding two attacks to Aikido would make it more possible to play Steven Segal type characters (I'm thinking of fight scenes from Above The Law and Hard To Kill).

I don't use MDC, so upgrading the Body Hardenings wasn't an issue for me.

You know, that reminds me of that idea I had to return Rifts to an actual post apocalyptic setting...

I like your ideas. Less is more sometimes.

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:You know, that reminds me of that idea I had to return Rifts to an actual post apocalyptic setting...

Really, I don't think of Rifts as a post-apocalyptic setting, except in the sense that there was an apocalypse in its past. It's more of a post-post-apocalyptic setting, where the real struggles for survival after the end of the world are over (Earth's human species no longer hangs in the balance), and the rebuilding can begin in earnest.

Now, After the Bomb is post-apocalyptic... and, to tell the truth, I think it does the SDC robots very well.

MrNexx wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:You know, that reminds me of that idea I had to return Rifts to an actual post apocalyptic setting...

Really, I don't think of Rifts as a post-apocalyptic setting, except in the sense that there was an apocalypse in its past. It's more of a post-post-apocalyptic setting, where the real struggles for survival after the end of the world are over (Earth's human species no longer hangs in the balance), and the rebuilding can begin in earnest.

It's not post apocalyptic, though some people keep trying to pass it off as such. Rifts is currently "how munchy can I make this next book."

Now, After the Bomb is post-apocalyptic... and, to tell the truth, I think it does the SDC robots very well.

I don't, too much missing information on the bots (like power supply/fuel source for one) and of course, the standard "tank guns being less powerful than machine guns" problems that also infest Rifts.