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Mechanoids!

yeah, they're not actually in the Three Galaxies, but they're older than the Kitanni at any rate...

I think though that the Splugorth/Kitanni should be considered one of the more ancient races. They seem to have been around forever and responsible (both directly and indirectly) for the formation of many of the groups in the Three Galaxies.

The True Naruni... it's hard to say. Did they actually origionate in the Three Galaxies or maybe in another dimension? Did they already have a corporation and then just sort of stepped in and changed the location of their company headquarters? Their organization might be old, but it's tough to even guess how long they have been in the Three Galaxies.

The fact that all of the Splugorth hate Naruni Enterprises (even ones with no standing in the Three Galaxies), leads me to believe that they, in all likelyhood, origionated elsewhere and just moved into Phase World because it's an excellent dimensional nexus point. Most likely they arrived after the formation of other power groups (like the UWW).

AnubisXy

darkmax wrote:Err... I can't agree abou the Kittani, but I can't really remember much about them on my MASSIVE 500MB brain memory.

If we are expanding into the other 'verses, I would think the Robotech Masters would be pretty old.

As for the K!ozn, I think there must be really old.

The Kittani have had advanced space faring technology for more than 50,000 years. If their civilization had been allowed to develop without interference(Mechanoids & Splugorth) and they didn't end up destroying themselves, the would have been far more than a Splugorth minion race.

During the First Galactic Era it was just the First Race, and the Forge.

And we all know how that ended...

During the Second Galactic Era there were many races, all of whom would be considered gods: The Dominators were one of them, with the Star Elves and the Promethians showing up at the end. We also know of the Array Builders (you'll see them in Fleets of the Three Galaxies), and whomever built the Artifact.

At the end of the Second Era, in the aftermath of the War Against the Dominators (where most of the Elder races were killed off entirely), the Three Galaxies became filled with vampires, Splugorth, ect.

Thought about the Lizard Mages perhaps DLDC? While they're not as cool anymore as Temporal Raiders or other naturally evil folks, I still find them quite the bee's knees.

darkmax wrote:Err... I can't agree abou the Kittani, but I can't really remember much about them on my MASSIVE 500MB brain memory.

If we are expanding into the other 'verses, I would think the Robotech Masters would be pretty old.

As for the K!ozn, I think there must be really old.

Technically, the Mechanoids are directly responsible for the Kitanni status as a slaverace of the Splugorth, which was why I mentioned them (tongue in cheek though it was). Fortunately there aren't any Mechanoids in the 3 galaxies. To date, I think the K!ozn are probably the "oldest" "race" in the 3 galaxies. By this, I'm not including some of the more supernatural, dimensional races (like Dragons, or Splugorth, or Whatever-The-Heck-Race-The-Dweller-Belongs-To), that are possibly even older than the Three Galaxies themselves.

AnubisXy

Now question, who came first:

the Old Ones or the First?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now question, who came first:

the Old Ones or the First?

I'd say the Old Ones. As multi-dimensional beings, they could have existed in another dimension before the Three Galaxies even formed, thus predating the First. That said, how do you really compare time in different dimensions? I sure don't know.

Well, technically... one is called Old and one is called First. So, just going with Occum's Razor, the First came First and the Old Ones are just really old.

AnubisXy

1) Old Ones
2) AIs
3) Dragons
4) Lizard Mages
5) Channelings
6) Elves
7) Promethans
Dominators
9) Gods & Godesses
10) "The First"

darkmax wrote:I would say the First Ones were there before all else. I'm pondering the point about how the Cosmic Forge created other universes, stars, planets and lifeforms.

However, every culture has a way of describing the beginning of their universe.

I agree the first were the oldest race in the three galixes however there are older species from other dimensions. The old ones are from a much older dimension (having Palladium waning its magic energies nearing the end of its life cycle) I expect Lizard mages and other dimensional travelers would have been attracted to the three galixies while the forge was lost and spread its wave of destruction through the three galixies. This would suggest the dominators, star elves and the rest of the inhabitents of the three galaxies are relativly young from a megaversal perspective. As such we should list them as:
1 All dimensional beings and travelers (including Splugorth)
2 The listed races from the three galixies

not outright named... but we're 99% sure that was a clan of really stupid Atlanteans. That would put the creation of the Mechanoids at only 6000 years ago (give or take), but surprisingly, nowhere near as ancient as the Dominators.

Well...

Plato writes about Atlantis in 360 BC,
and says it sank into the ocean about 9000 years before his time: or 9360 BC.

At the same time (10,000 B.C.):
The Nazcans of South America build an advanced civilization based on their Line Magic. It flourishes until the Atlantean disaster.
[South America 2, p.9.]

So, if Plato was right, and not just high, the Nazcans flourished for
640 years.

So we have two possible conclusions.

1) the clan of stupid Atlanteans escaped via some kind of temporal conduit that landed them on some planet in the distant past, thereby allowing the Kittani to be as old as stated in the Rifts books.

2) The dates for the Kittani becoming indentured servants are totally screwed, probably by a factor of ten (not likely)

darkmax wrote:

el magico -- darklorddc wrote:The Splugorth are dimensional travelers, the Mechanoids aren't. THey snagged the kittani and rifted out, leaving the mechanoids scratching their heads.

I think you are talking about a huge investment in PPE. Considering the technological advancement in the Mechanoid's universe, wouldn't that also mean that there is a lack of huge pool of PPE?

Pulling billions of poeple out of a dimension requires any number of portals to be opened for a long time! I just don't see that happening.

never underestimate what 80 million or so mages can accomplish when all under the rule of one godlike being...

el magico -- darklorddc wrote:
BTW..where does it say the atlanteans created the mechanoids? I've never seen that one.

"...these humans were refugees fleeing from a terrible disaster. Their homeworld was torn asunder and they were among the fortunate few to escape the great destruction. The oldest legends identify them as 'Atlanees', but they have ben given many names..."

- Rifts Sourcebook 2, pg 28


Palladium hints are often painfully transparent, so I think its fairly obvious who these refugees were.

There's a slight disconnect, between the time period that Atlantis vanished (~8,000-12,000 years ago) and the fact that the Mechanoids ravaged the Kitanni over 40,000 years ago, and ravaged the rest of their galaxy long before that. I guess you can come up with something cheesy, like saying the Atlanteans tripped on a rock and through a temporal flux or something and ended up in the past, built the mechanoids, and then got wiped out.

AnubisXy

Another thought I had today while doing dishes, is that one or two of the Elder Races might have hidden themselves away for the past 50,000 years in order to avoid the whole Dominator War.

The Star Elves did it. And apparently no one successfully attacked Phase World.

But an enterprising race of gods could have used temporal magic to transport themselves 50,000 years into the future. Or a vampire-like state of sleep, only waking recently in this, the Third Galactic Era.