Thoughts About Dolphin Free States

[dulsi]

After the animal started gaining human like characteristics and part of California sank into the sea, the dolphins who had evolved the most rapidly began organizing the newly sentient creatures. The major cities operated entirely seperated with the surrounding areas usually adopting similar laws. Since much of the territory is underwater and not contested, there is no need for a strong central government. Most threats come from giant mutated sea life. Althought the states will ban together against threats usually individual militia must deal with the problem before help can arrive.

Not all of the large population of seals were pleased with this situation. They were upset by there lack of representation amoung the political rulers. Some felt the predator races such as sharks should have restrictions due to their violent nature. Eventually an incident rocketed the small political group to the center stage. A gang of seals had been picking on a shark. After a little fighting one of the seals started bleeding. The shark went into a frenzy and killed the seal. During the trial, the jury found that the shark has acted in self-defense against the other seals. For the death of the seal, he was found not guilty due to mental defect. The seal community was outraged. The political party had gained enough support to break away and form the Seal Republic.

Recently some Dolphin Free State politicians have begun to question whether the Seal Republic should be allowed to remain independant.

(I figured I'd post what I was thinking about for the Dolphin Free States and the Seal Republic. I was planning on doing a more detailed information like for the other contries but the state of AtB2 has gotten to me. Palladium and I have differing opinions about what a complete game is. From reading comments about Rifts and other games, I don't think this will change. I wish Palladium well but unfortunately I will not be running their games.)

[Mechanurgist]

I'd like to know how the fish and dolphins manage an advanced society without electricity. When humans go underwater they wrap all their tech in bubbles of air. How would the dolphins operate lights, computers, etc. without living in pressurised air containers?

[Rali]

I'd like to know how the fish and dolphins manage an advanced society without electricity. When humans go underwater they wrap all their tech in bubbles of air. How would the dolphins operate lights, computers, etc. without living in pressurised air containers?

I would contend that such a society would probably devise organic technology or bio-technology if they spent the majority of their time in an underwater environment.

[Grey Death]

Who says an advanced society involves computers and electricity. Take the romans for instance. They were pretty barbaric compared to now. Yet they had hot and cold running water in homes. Some cities even had toliets in the homes and sewers systems. No to mention aquaducts bringing in water to the city from vast distances. Democracy, and elected officials. My point being that you dont have to have electronics and electricity to have an advanced society.

[Mechanurgist]

Heck, druids had brain surgery.

I'm not joking!

They had trepanation, which is related to brain surgery in the same way that a knife is related to an aircraft carrier. Please, drop the savage romanticism guys.

[Mechanurgist]

Who says an advanced society involves computers and electricity.

Because 'advanced' means the benchmark civilization of right now, unless you're playing semantic games. Which means a civilization that has automobiles, skyscrapers, police forces, electricity, etc.

Take the romans for instance. They were pretty barbaric compared to now. Yet they had hot and cold running water in homes. Some cities even had toliets in the homes and sewers systems. No to mention aquaducts bringing in water to the city from vast distances.

Yes, they did. So did the Ganges civilization. But that's rather irrelevant to our discussion of underwater civilizations.

Democracy,

No. You're probably thinking of the Greeks, and the democracy they had was quite different from our representational one.

and elected officials.

Technically correct but not what most would imagine the meaning of those words to be in our society today.

My point being that you dont have to have electronics and electricity to have an advanced society.

If the word is to have any meaning whatsoever, then yes, you do.

[dulsi]

I'd like to know how the fish and dolphins manage an advanced society without electricity. When humans go underwater they wrap all their tech in bubbles of air. How would the dolphins operate lights, computers, etc. without living in pressurised air containers?

Who said they are an advanced society? I was thinking colonial North American before separating from the British as the level of technology.

Now ignoring that for a moment why can't they be living in pressurized air containers. There are some islands on the map so they are entirely devoid on land. California's buildings could have been strenghtened to resist earthquakes. Perhaps after sinking the sentient sea creatures made them air tight and added an air lock. Maybe they have a large collection of rafts or something and live floating on the sea. Perhaps a large nuclear sub was developed prior to the crash. It sunk in california seas thus providing power and a breathable area. Some lunatic group believed California was going to sink and builds a large self sufficient domed city before the crash.

Prior to the destruction of mankind, kids had genetic sequencers. You should be able to come up with a reason for an advanced society under water. I haven't even gotten to the organic technology/bio-technology that Rali suggested.

[acreRake]

First of all, i don't think there should be intelligent sharks. Not human intelligence, anyway. If you substituted killer whales in your story, i think it could work just fine, though.

Dolphins (et al) could get electronics/tech from Fresno-by-the-sea. (They make plastic and microchips in Bakerfield.) I'm sure the Free State(s) could come up with plenty of stuff to trade, especially food and (possibly) oil.

But i really don't see a sea creature society being very advanced, technology-wise, or even caring that they weren't. Besides, it's obvious there are some dolphins/seals/whales that live on land, or at least can. And as dulsi pointed out, plenty of islands in their teritory. I'd like to see more ideas for this "country"

[Mechanurgist]

Who said they are an advanced society? I was thinking colonial North American before separating from the British as the level of technology.

Okay. Fair enough. That didn't come through in your original post though.

Now ignoring that for a moment why can't they be living in pressurized air containers.

Because they're aquatic animals and would find it uncomfortable if not fatal? Imagine if we all had to go to work in scuba gear and stay underwater for a month. Not exactly ideal conditions for building a civilization.

Forgive my skepticism, but there are certain physical limitations underwater that just can't be overcome. The conductivity of electricity in liquids and impossibility of combustion are just two that come to mind, but there are others. You can certainly have a primitive or techno-organic civilization (and that would be cool for dolphins!), but I doubt a fish/shark/dolphin/seal civilization could resemble anything like what humans have, or even Cardania.

I could also make the argument that in real life you couldn't even get to the stage of bio-engineering without a hardtech civilization to back it up, but this is science fantasy, so I'll go easy.

I could definitely see the Dolphin Free States being a syndicalist/anarchist society, much like the Geese in TH White's The Book of Merlyn (a great read if you're interested in "animal societies", btw).

[Grey Death]

civ·i·li·za·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sv-l-zshn)
n.
1. An advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of record-keeping, including writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions.
2. The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
3. The act or process of civilizing or reaching a civilized state.
4. Cultural or intellectual refinement; good taste.
5. Modern society with its conveniences: returned to civilization after camping in the mountains.


The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

So slap advanced in front of it and it must mean they have electronics? I suppose its all relative to whats around them. Besides who says that they have to have all this technology. They could still be a successful civilization without it.