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Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:45 pm**

I should note that PDWs refer to a type of submachine gun, not non-lethal devices.

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:12 pm**

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:I should note that PDWs refer to a type of submachine gun, not non-lethal devices.

That was my first thought too...

The Mondanock PR-24 is a great defensive weapon you can do all sorts of things with it, such as wrist locks arm bars, block/parry knifes, baseball bats, and you can even stun people by hitting certain pressure points.

Oleoresin Capsicum (aka Pepper spray) is a great way to subdue someone from a distance, you just have to worry about the spray getting on you if you end up wrestling around with an assailant.

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:45 am**

Pepper Spray backed up by a 45.

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:12 pm**

Lucky wrote:fixed.

OC is no S***. I got hit with that stuff training on ship, and it took hours to stop burning. nothing helps, it just has to dry out.

and as soon as you get in the shower, it reactivates and runs down the body.

Did you have to beat the crap out of a dummy with a PR-24 doing specific strikes after getting sprayed?

The worse part is for days when you sweat; the sweat reactivates the OC in your hair and eyebrows then said swat runs into your eye(s).

Made the gas chamber the next day a total joke as half of us went in without gas masks.

I hear milk works since it's a base and the OC is an acid....

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:40 pm**

OC: One of my Snugglebuddies stopped carrying the stuff after she had to spray a man and it did not work. She beat the guy to the ground mind you..Still she was forced to get up close and personal. Now while she is only 5'3", she is both physically and mentally trained and prepared for a fight.

Clubs: not always legal in all area's. that Kobutan will be taken as a weapon by some cops.

Pen's: legal in all area's and works just like a Kobutan.

Coins: they are a great distraction and give you time to do something more effective.

Paperrback novels: Open your mind to how dangerous the written word really is.

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:10 pm**

I've been through a CS chamber without a mask. No fun. I've also been downwind of spraying pepper. No fun. I've sprayed a dog that was trying to eat me. I never saw him again.

Always be prepared to fight for what is yours. Sheep are only good for the slaughter. Pepper, clubs, guns... they're just tools. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they don't. Much of that depends on the person.

Personally, I've never sprayed or shot anyone. I have dropped 3 people with a 6 D sized battery flashlight though. Leave it just inside my car door.

Posted: **Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:56 pm**

Lucky wrote:The thing with OC is that it takes about 20 seconds to really kick in.

Well I was sprayed in the forehead during training, so it kicked in pretty quick....

Posted: **Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:26 pm**

jedi078 wrote:
Lucky wrote:The thing with OC is that it takes about 20 seconds to really kick in.

Well I was sprayed in the forehead during training, so it kicked in pretty quick....

It varies per person.
I've heard that some people are practically immune to the stuff, and others drop at a slight wiff.

I'm not recommending it for a number of obvious reasons (legality, etc), but I overheard a couple of truckers talking one time about what they keep in their cab just in case of trouble.
Instead of the standard Tire Buddy, one of the guys said that he kept a can of starter fluid, because it will mess somebody up faster and worse than pepperspray, and it's not an obvious weapon so you won't get hassled for carrying it in your truck.

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:12 pm**

Wow. I've never carried a non-lethal defensive weapon. If I was in law enforcement, I would definitely go with the PR-24. I like the idea of brass knuckles. But they are way illegal in this state. You know what melee weapon you dont hear about any more. The black jack. There probably illegal here too. But I their pretty interesting weapons.

For those not familliar

Blackjacks
A blackjack (known in British English as a cosh) is a small, easily-concealed weapon consisting of a leather-wrapped lead weight attached to the end of a leather-wrapped coil-spring or rigid shaft, with a lanyard or strap on the end opposite the weight. Materials other than lead and leather are sometimes used to construct these weapons.
Blackjacks are popular due to their low profile and small size, and their potential to inflict enormous damage on human beings.

A blackjack is sometimes referred to as a sap, which is the name for a weapon of similar design (also called a slapper), which has a flat profile as opposed to a cylindrical one.

A second variation on the sap is a sandsock or sandclub, which as the name implies, is a weapon of flexible sheath construction filled with a heavy, fragmented weight. The sand of a sandsock may in fact be sand, but is more likely to be lead shot. The covering may be a pouch of leather or heavy cloth, such as denim or canvas. The sandsock is almost universally used as an improvised weapon.

Blackjacks can be used to inflict devastating damage on bones and tissues, and are considered in many jurisdictions to be deadly weapons. Blackjacks are also illegal in many jurisdictions. Traditionally used by police officers, they have been replaced to a large extent by telescopic and side-handle batons.

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:56 pm**

CS Jarhead wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
jedi078 wrote:
Lucky wrote:The thing with OC is that it takes about 20 seconds to really kick in.

Well I was sprayed in the forehead during training, so it kicked in pretty quick....

It varies per person.
I've heard that some people are practically immune to the stuff, and others drop at a slight wiff.

I'm not recommending it for a number of obvious reasons (legality, etc), but I overheard a couple of truckers talking one time about what they keep in their cab just in case of trouble.
Instead of the standard Tire Buddy, one of the guys said that he kept a can of starter fluid, because it will mess somebody up faster and worse than pepperspray, and it's not an obvious weapon so you won't get hassled for carrying it in your truck.

Using starter fluid as a weapon in most states will be charged as assault with a deadly weapon. The possibility of perminate blindness is very real. In this day in age of "criminal rights" individuals who are proactive in thier personal security need to work within the confines of the law so they themselves don't go to jail.

Yup.

On a tangent, is it really a deadly weapon, or would it just maim?
If you deliberately maim somebody with somebody something that you know isn't going to kill them, is that still "assault with a deadly weapon"?

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:57 pm**

Depends on what state you're in. If you're in Idaho and get attacked then just beat them back with whatever is handy. If you're in California... you better just shoot to kill because they'll sue you afterwords if they live.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:41 am**

While I was looking up something else, I came across this article, which may be of interest:
http://www.paforge.com/files/resources/ ... eapons.pdf

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:13 pm**

Someone needs to turn these into a new Rifts Mercenaries book

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:14 pm**

Mydnyte_Son wrote:
Rockwolf66 wrote:OC: One of my Snugglebuddies stopped carrying the stuff after she had to spray a man and it did not work. She beat the guy to the ground mind you..Still she was forced to get up close and personal. Now while she is only 5'3", she is both physically and mentally trained and prepared for a fight..

I would have to say from personal experience that the mindset is key. Training is the next in line. No weapon is useful if you cannot wield it properly or just WONT wield it when in need.

But BY FAR my most dearly beloved form of defense is a good solid head start. I am a master of run-fu

Unfortunantly for her, she has bad knees and physically cannot retreat. As for just giving up...that's not part of her personality. Thus while she looks like a small, disadvantaged target to some people, she is the last person outside of my own family that I would ever want to fight.

GhostKnight wrote:Depends on what state you're in. If you're in Idaho and get attacked then just beat them back with whatever is handy. If you're in California... you better just shoot to kill because they'll sue you afterwords if they live.

Many, many people in the Firearms world give this advice:
"We don't shoot to kill. We shoot to stop."

If that means useing the Mozambique Drill then that is what you have to do.

As far as shooting anyone for whatever reason in The People's Republik of Kalifornia...Avoid it if possible. the DA's will do your best to mount your head on their wall.

Kuseru,
That's a great article, and the reason why my characters carry CR gas.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:42 pm**

Just a question... what is "starter fluid"? Is that the same as lighting fluid, the kind of petroleum stuff you load zippos with or that you use to help start barbecue fires?

If not, just what is it?... I guess it must be a pretty strong irritant, or perhaps toxic, but just what is the basic purpose?

same, I saw the term "tire buddy"... is that a tire iron? Or is it some other product that can be converted to offence/defence purposes?

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:00 pm**

Starter fluid is what you spray on charcoal to light it. If you spray it at someone and hold a lit lighter in the stream they will be badly burned

A tire iron (which is what I beleive was being refered to) is a handy blunt weapon.

Posted: **Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:22 pm**

Chello!

I actually, I think the started fluid the truckers were referring is the Chemtool spray you can get in a spraycan to help get your car started....?

Tony

Posted: **Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:55 pm**

duck-foot wrote:ya ive encountered legal problems in this area. i used to keep a bat in my car (before the 05 hurricanes destroyed it ) and i had 5 diffirent police officers give me diffirent answers to its legality. i never did found out if it was completly legal to keep my moron-beater in my car.

Try a 22-oz framing hammer. You can get one at Lowes with a fiberglass, no-slip grip for less than $25. If anyone asks, you were doing some home repair like you saw on HGTV.

Posted: **Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:08 pm**

Yep... my fav self defence instrument is a plain hammer... I needed one for some work in the house, so I went to buy one, and found one that's nice, heavy but not too much, and beautifully balanced, and when I took it in hand, I solved the koan of the sound of a skull crunching... So now, when I go to places when I don't feel safe, my satchel contains a big hammer in addition to the usual papers, books, basic pharmaceuticals and whatnot I always have with me ... plus, of course, if you come bother me at home, you can be afraid of hammertime.

I feel safer.

Posted: **Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:03 pm**

My lattest bit of self-Defence equipment is a 3-AA cell mini-Maglight. it's small, light, concealable, and totally legal. Even police officers who would arrest you for carrying a hammer around would have trouble making an arrest for a flashlight.

the best part about said flashlight is that it can be used as a kobutan, yawara, or arnis stick depending on your training.

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:12 am**

I keep my "beat stick" (18" maglight) in my truck at all times. I've never had to hit anyone more than once with it.

Personal experience with OC is that it's just too unreliable for my taste and I cant recommend carrying it in good conscience, though I do like CS when/if it's available.

Were I given my choice of nonlethal weapons, I'd probably have to go with the riot control shotgun loaded with alternating rubber and rocksalt rounds. Ok, so I have a thing for multifunction weapons...

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Ummm.... self defense weapons.