Forums of the Megaverse®

my main question with heros but all palladium games seem to have players with massive spd. i know with dnd you have map and what not... i am pretty sure i can wing it with players with spds of 30 and less but what about the ones into the 70 and up or even into the super speed ie: sonic speed....

so can a hero with a massive speed hit a person and run far enough away to no be attacked by melee by the same person hit by the hero

As long as the game system allows for the existance of simultaneous attack, no they can't run in and out of attack range without ever exposing themselves to attack.

well what after the simo? can they hit and run?

Once their opponent(s) are completely out of attacks, sure but thats because their opponents can't attack anymore NOT because of their speed.

ok what i think am saying is can a player with umm super sonic speed(running) is a football field away for the npc can he run up and hit him (simo may or maynot happen) but then return to back to where he started or at least to the 50 yard line

Can they move during combat? Of course they can, how far is only limited by their SPD attribute.

ok well my main question is for the character with super sonic speed and or moving in exass of 180 mhp

Unless the target used a simul attack then I would rule that yes if the speed was great enough (like 50+ MPH) the "hero" could do a "run by" attack without fear of the target hitting them (in melee at least) though I would probably have them use 2-3 actions to do such a "run by" manuver... note though that this is NOT canon as far as i know its just what i would do.


also in case you didn't know the speed attribute is simply the feet per second that the character can travel, you can do the math if you don't believe me.


so lets say you have a speedster hero that has a speed of 150 and 6 attacks per round.
-Each attack takes 15/6 or 2.5 seconds
-In 2.5 seconds the character can run 375 feet.
-In 1.25 seconds (1/2 an action) the character can run 187.5 feet.

This character should easily be able to use 1/2 an action to run up, one action to whack the target, and then another 1/2 an action to scram out of melee range thereby avoiding being hit. It would be a "special move" like a power punch or something.

Note that this could "bog down" the game as it would be difficult to run "1/2 actions". A solution to this would simply be to allow the character to zoom up, take their wack, and then zoom off, all using one action. Another would be to have the manuver use 3 actions... which is really somehting that almost anybody could do.

He can move as far as that breaks down per action every action, he can't avoid getting attacked with it though. Unless he has a stupidly low number of attacks (less than 3) he wont be able to move 150+ yds per action unless the speed is exceptionally high by the most munchkin of standards.

but what about super sonic (700mph) or exstrodanry speed (220 mph)

EPIC wrote:the simplest solution that i can think of at this moment (haven't had my coffee so my brain might not be fully engaged yet) is that a character can move up to their spd attribute, in feet, per action.

Yep you need more coffee the Spd attribute is feet per second NOT feet per action.

if the target is within a distance equal to the character's spd attribute in feet, they can get there in one action but cannot make an attack on them that same action.

if the target is within a distance equal to 1/2 of the character's spd attribute in feet, they can move up to their target and also attack them in one action. but will have to wait until their next action to move away from them again.

if the target is within a distance equal to 1/4 of the character's spd attribute in feet, they can essentialy run to their target, attack them and (as long as the total distance moved is only equal to 3/4, essentialy sacrificing 1/4 of their total distance to attack the target) then move past the target once more. all in one action. this can only be done as a run by attack, such as a clothes line or a body block or the like, without the intent of slowing down to engage the targt in HtH.

The rest pretty much makes sense.

EPIC wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

EPIC wrote:the simplest solution that i can think of at this moment (haven't had my coffee so my brain might not be fully engaged yet) is that a character can move up to their spd attribute, in feet, per action.

Yep you need more coffee the Spd attribute is feet per second NOT feet per action.

right ... i meant to say meters/yards equal to speed attribute.

Nope, Its still not yards per action.

# Actions varry from character to character, but 2 characters with speed of 10 can both run the same speed, and thus the same distance in a second, or melee, or hour, but if one has 5 actions and the other 10 they don't run the same distance per action because thier actions take different ammounts of time.

Spd x 20 is the number of YARDS the character can run in a MINUTE.
Spd x 60 is the number of FEET the character can run in a MINUTE.

Therefore the easy way to think of it is Spd = Feet Per Second. Do this and you will always have it right.

these little problems (and others) are why i insist on using some kind of miniature/token/map setup for resolving combat. its much easier if everyone can see the exact same battle and is limited by the exact same rules. that way we avoid the whole "but my guy wasnt still standing there" "you should have told me that he moved before the bomb went off then" stuff...

t0m wrote:these little problems (and others) are why i insist on using some kind of miniature/token/map setup for resolving combat. its much easier if everyone can see the exact same battle and is limited by the exact same rules. that way we avoid the whole "but my guy wasnt still standing there" "you should have told me that he moved before the bomb went off then" stuff...

Obviously I agree this is a good idea, because we do the same thing.

well we use minitures as well and i get the who feet per second but my main question was to what about the heros that really don't have a spd attribute because they can run in about 220 (minor power of : extrodenary speed) or 700 mph (major :sonic speed) what about these guys how fast can they move?

I am not familiar with these powers.

What is the acceleration time? Instant?

My guess is they cannot strike and run away at least before the other guy gets an attack.

lather wrote:I am not familiar with these powers.

What is the acceleration time? Instant?

My guess is they cannot strike and run away at least before the other guy gets an attack.

There is no accleration time listed so it pretty much defaults to instant just as in all PB speeds you reach top speed after one (or less) actions.

i pretty much posted my full rules for mini combat in a thread about mass combat, i think some others did as well. in our rules i let a player move his full spd in cm if they are not doing anything else for that action/attack, or i let them move half their spd in cm if they are going to do an action/attack. they can do this before OR after their action. so they could move in to attack (as long as the guy is half their spd away in cm), or they could attack and move away by half their spd. this actually creates an advantage for the person with a high spd rating as he can either break from combat, or chase someone down who is trying to break from him...

works fine in our palladium fantasy game, your mileage may vary in heroes. (youll need a big table if that supersonic character wants to run a football field away though

goodhometownboy wrote:well we use minitures as well and i get the who feet per second but my main question was to what about the heros that really don't have a spd attribute because they can run in about 220 (minor power of : extrodenary speed) or 700 mph (major :sonic speed) what about these guys how fast can they move?

Well, based on some quick extrapolations from the SPD conversion charts in the character creation section I rate Ext SPD ~325 and Sonic ~1500.

ok so let me get this straight so i know.... the spd attributte in battle is the amount of feet you can move in a action.. example: a character with a spd of say 30 means he can move 30 feet per action and he can only move and attack if the target is within 15 or less feet? ok and if i read the books right there in no charge attack right?

ok well here is the hard one for all you massive poster... what about the people who wouldn't use their spd attributte for moving because they fly?

Flight should have a speed attribute as well.

goodhometownboy wrote:ok so let me get this straight so i know.... the spd attributte in battle is the amount of feet you can move in a action.. example: a character with a spd of say 30 means he can move 30 feet per action and he can only move and attack if the target is within 15 or less feet? ok and if i read the books right there in no charge attack right?

NO!!! The Spd attribute is how many feet you can move in a second!!!!!! ]

Not in an action. Actions differ in length of time from char to char, and so a speed of such and such a number whould never remain constant.

Didn't mean to jump down your throat on this but i needed to nip this thought in the bud in no uncertain terms.

Spd = feet per second. Period.

lather wrote:Flight should have a speed attribute as well.

correct and it usually is listed seperatly sometimes as a 10/25 notation meaning that 10 is running and 25 is flying.

Note that 10 and 25 were just numbers pulled from thin air.

but what about the characters with flight powers in HU like ie: flight wingless no spd attributte but just has a max speed of 200mph so pretty much i would have to break that down into a speed attributte number right?

I would say "yes". So.. "yes"

dang that sucks!! do you know what the formula for that would be?

Never figured it out, but I think the chart listed in the book goes up to 200mph. I am talking crazy though. I will have a look when I get home, which could be a while at this rate.

goodhometownboy wrote:ok so let me get this straight so i know.... the spd attributte in battle is the amount of feet you can move in a action.. example: a character with a spd of say 30 means he can move 30 feet per action and he can only move and attack if the target is within 15 or less feet? ok and if i read the books right there in no charge attack right?

yeah this is how i do it (house rule i suppose). i use it for flying and i dont bother to try and figure out accelleration or feet per second/number of attacks or anything. this is fast for miniatures and keeps combat moving right along. it you want a charge rule just say anyone moving (hlaf their spd) during their attack is charging. you could also use the leap attack rules for charging but that has a bit of a penalty (costs 2 attacks).

edit - didnt see page 3 of the thread - book says spd 5 = 3.5 mph (for easy math) and a spd of 293 - 200 mph.

goodhometownboy wrote:but what about the characters with flight powers in HU like ie: flight wingless no spd attributte but just has a max speed of 200mph so pretty much i would have to break that down into a speed attributte number right?

Yep and knowing that Spd = FPS its not too hard
200 MPH is 1,056,000 feet per hour
1,056,000 feet per hour is 17,600 feet per minute
17,600 feet per minute is 293.33 feet per second and that is your speed.

i never really picked up that spd was = to 1 foot/second. i have been thinking about my implementation of miniatures a lot (re-evaluating) and it got me to thinking about something else.

the average dwarf can dig into the ground at a rate of 2.5 (d6 spd for digging) feet per second. in an amount of time faster than i could take a full powered swing of a pick, a dwarf can remove an average of 2.5 feet? thats nuts...the dwarf that just joined our gaming group got a 5 for his dig speed, so he could pretty much dig a grave in about 1.25 seconds (its a good thing too)...

t0m wrote:i never really picked up that spd was = to 1 foot/second. i have been thinking about my implementation of miniatures a lot (re-evaluating) and it got me to thinking about something else.

the average dwarf can dig into the ground at a rate of 2.5 (d6 spd for digging) feet per second. in an amount of time faster than i could take a full powered swing of a pick, a dwarf can remove an average of 2.5 feet? thats nuts...the dwarf that just joined our gaming group got a 5 for his dig speed, so he could pretty much dig a grave in about 1.25 seconds (its a good thing too)...

Yep digging speeds are silly... they need to be greatly reduced. I would simply make them per minute rather than per second.

I figure digging a 2.5 foot deep hole that is just big enough for the character to stand in/ fit through (say 24" diameter) still couldnt be done in a minute but at least its not totally insane like 2.5' per second.

Yea, 200mph was not in the chart. 220mph was.

Hoped to save a little math work.

lather wrote:Yea, 200mph was not in the chart. 220mph was.

Hoped to save a little math work.

Bah, takes a minute, if even that long.

1 fps = .681818182 mph

Divide mph by .681818182 to get Speed attribute.

Multiply Speed attribute by .681818182 to get mph.

lather wrote:1 fps = .681818182 mph

Divide mph by .681818182 to get Speed attribute.

Multiply Speed attribute by .681818182 to get mph.

yeah, or instead of remembering .681818182 You can just do everything by remembering that 5280 feet is in a mile and there are 60 minutes in a hour and 60 seconds in a minute.... it all works out the same but everbody already knows how many minutes are in an hour and how many seconds are in a minute and most people know that there are 5280 feet per mile... or they should.

Its the "long hand" method to do it this way but people don't have to remember a decimal constant to plug into the equasion they can just use the knowledge they learned way back in grade school.

Tomatos
Tomahtos

Or just use .7 as the books do.

Have not had the opportunity to try it.

But my games never have speedy characters in them so I probably never will

Looks alright at a glance though.

oook ok i think i got it i under stand your feet per second but dang it really possiable to move 90 feet in 3 seconds? (saying that the pc has a spd of 30 and 6 attacks) thats a bit much hmm i will talk to my players to see if they like the FPS or the spd attributte is the amount of feet you can move per turn.. still i am begining to hate the super fast character.

That is why I do not have speedy characters in my game.

I understand your frustration though.

It has to be tempered at least somewhat, I would say.

lather wrote:Or just use .7 as the books do.

Unfortunately, the book doesn't use a flat .7. Yes, it's .7 at 5 but it's ~.682593856655291 at 293 and there are small changes all the way up the chart. That's why the estimated SPDs I gave earlier for superpower speeds were appromate extrapolations and not solid numbers.

Rounding makes a difference at the extremes.

I was just basing off Spd 10 means 7mph to claim the books use .7.

I failed to actually back that up with real detailed checking.

Personally, I do not think it is something to worry about too much.

goodhometownboy wrote:oook ok i think i got it i under stand your feet per second but dang it really possiable to move 90 feet in 3 seconds? (saying that the pc has a spd of 30 and 6 attacks) thats a bit much hmm i will talk to my players to see if they like the FPS or the spd attributte is the amount of feet you can move per turn.. still i am begining to hate the super fast character.

I'm just telling you that in canon Spd = FPS. Don't belive me? do the math. Don't want to use FPS? house rule it.

A normal human with a speed of 30? sure its possible in canon (especially with running as a physical skill) though it should be very rare.

As for an action being 3 seconds when they have 6 actions per 15 second melee your math is off, its actually 2.5 seconds per action, in which case the character with a speed of 30 could go 75 feet or 25 yards.

Though I don't follow football very close I do know that they test for 40 yrd sprint times and the fastest players are around 4 seconds to go 40 yards so in all fairness 25 yards in 2.5 seconds is not too unreasonable for a normal human character.

I've read in several entries in the books that animals with gore/ram attacks invest in it a 2 melee action attack. Moreover, IIRC Cyb-K do have an special ability that let them move, jump and do acrobatics while attacking. Based on this, I would suggest that your speedster must invest 2 melee actions in their "charging attack" and have some kind of penalty while hitting (maybe as a wild attack -6).

Just my 2 cents.

Q.

thanks for the help guys

EPIC wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

goodhometownboy wrote:ok so let me get this straight so i know.... the spd attributte in battle is the amount of feet you can move in a action.. example: a character with a spd of say 30 means he can move 30 feet per action and he can only move and attack if the target is within 15 or less feet? ok and if i read the books right there in no charge attack right?

NO!!! The Spd attribute is how many feet you can move in a second!!!!!! ]

Not in an action. Actions differ in length of time from char to char, and so a speed of such and such a number whould never remain constant.

Didn't mean to jump down your throat on this but i needed to nip this thought in the bud in no uncertain terms.

Spd = feet per second. Period.

i've actually run into a problem with the Feet Per Second thing as it does not seem to work during melee combat because melee combat is turn based not time based.

currently, combatants are to use up their melee actions turn for turn - A B A B A B - until they run out of actions per melee. then any character who still have actions left can keep taking melee actions while the others cannot until they also run out of action per melee - A B A B A B B for example.

this implies that both characters are using the exact same amount of time to attack eachother for each combat action in the melee, only one runs out of gas before the other so to speak.

thus Feet Per Second does not work properly by my count during a combat melee.

a character with a speed of 10 and 3 actions can actually run farther and faster in a single combat turn than a character with a speed of 14 and 5 actions can in a single turn.

10 x 20 = 200/4 = 50/3 = 16.667 (17 rounded) Yards per turn

14 x 20 = 280/4 = 70/5 = 14 Yards per turn

and that is exactly how it is described by the book.

First what book is this in?

If this is infact how its detailed (and i've never seen it done so) then IMO the book's way of doing it is totally incorrect. The character with the lower speed and fewer actions can run farther but never faster... his actions take 5 seconds rathar than the 3 seconds per action that the character with 5 actions gets so he has longer per action to run and thus could run father in those 5 seconds than the other character can in his 3 seconds...

The whole ABABABBB way of running it is just stupid. Its a convention employed to make combat take less "real world" time. Discard this convention and use some common sense and math to determine the correct order to which the actions would happen and you will eleminate this problem.

Imagine a foot race between these two characters
A= spd 10 and 3 atm
B= spd 14 and 5 apm

Both start at same time
after one action A is 17 yards from the start and B is only 14
after 2 actions A is 34 yards from the start and B is 28
after 3 actions A is 51 yards from the start and B is 42
At this point A STOPS MOVING COPLETELY 51 yards is his total distace traveled and for actions 4 and 5 B runs another 28 yards for a total of 70 yards.

Does this make sense? NOT at all IMO.

In this case drop the actions and simply take the spd as feet per second and multiply by the seconds (15) and you get 150 feet for A (thats 50 yards) and 210 for B (thats 70 yards) and at any point durring the race you can calculate how far ahead B is simply by determining how many seconds into the race you are. It gets more complicated when you actually try to figure it out using actions but not so much so that I've ever had a problem with it.

Umm... the easiest way would be

Spd 30 = 30 feet per second
Attacks per Melee = 5 divided by 15(melee time) = 3 seconds
3 seconds = 90 feet

So each attack you can move 90 feet, or 30 yards.

Seems pretty easy to me.

EPIC wrote:it's actually fairly simple math as the book describes speed as SPD x 20 per minute ... a speed of 10 equals 200 ft per minute

one melee takes exactly 15 seconds and 60/15 equals 4 ... so you take 200 and divide that by 4 to get 50 ft per melee

so now this character might have say 5 actions per melee so you divide down again ... 50 divided by 5 equals 10 ft per action.

and that's how you figure out how far a character can move in a single action.

that is also why it is way easier to leave combat exactly how it curently works - turn based rather than time based - and just say that a character can move a distance equal to their speed attribute in feet per action.

NO its Spd x 20 = yards per minute.

Spd 10
10 x 20 = 200 yards per minute
200 yards per minute x 3 feet per yard = 600 feet per minute
600 feet per minute / 60 seconds per minute = WOAH 10 feet per second.

Spd 10 = 10 feet per second

Thinyser wrote:

EPIC wrote:it's actually fairly simple math as the book describes speed as SPD x 20 per minute ... a speed of 10 equals 200 ft per minute

one melee takes exactly 15 seconds and 60/15 equals 4 ... so you take 200 and divide that by 4 to get 50 ft per melee

so now this character might have say 5 actions per melee so you divide down again ... 50 divided by 5 equals 10 ft per action.

and that's how you figure out how far a character can move in a single action.

that is also why it is way easier to leave combat exactly how it curently works - turn based rather than time based - and just say that a character can move a distance equal to their speed attribute in feet per action.

NO its Spd x 20 = yards per minute.

Spd 10
10 x 20 = 200 yards per minute
200 yards per minute x 3 feet per yard = 600 feet per minute
600 feet per minute / 60 seconds per minute = WOAH 10 feet per second.

Spd 10 = 10 feet per second

hey thinyser ever feel like this?

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

EPIC wrote:it's actually fairly simple math as the book describes speed as SPD x 20 per minute ... a speed of 10 equals 200 ft per minute

one melee takes exactly 15 seconds and 60/15 equals 4 ... so you take 200 and divide that by 4 to get 50 ft per melee

so now this character might have say 5 actions per melee so you divide down again ... 50 divided by 5 equals 10 ft per action.

and that's how you figure out how far a character can move in a single action.

that is also why it is way easier to leave combat exactly how it curently works - turn based rather than time based - and just say that a character can move a distance equal to their speed attribute in feet per action.

NO its Spd x 20 = yards per minute.

Spd 10
10 x 20 = 200 yards per minute
200 yards per minute x 3 feet per yard = 600 feet per minute
600 feet per minute / 60 seconds per minute = WOAH 10 feet per second.

Spd 10 = 10 feet per second

hey thinyser ever feel like this?

Never to the point that I would really bash my head against a brick wall (or any wall for that matter) but yes sometimes.