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Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:00 am**

I'd say no... it would fall into the same category as the old school martial arts. With very rare exceptions, they are gone for good.
Of course a GM can do anything they want and something as trivial as a lost language wouldn't exactly be game breaking, so I'd rule it in the "why not?" category.

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:56 am**

I'm sure more than one person has dug up a copy of Wheelock's in the ruins of a high school or university. So, yeah, I personally think it's possible for any player that wants it bad enough for their character. But I'm a sucker for linguistic variety in a game and usually make that kind of thing a major plot point somehow.

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:38 am**

wolfe wrote:The ones I would place bets on knowing this skill would be the Rulian Translator R.C.C. Splynn Dimensional Market pg.87.

You can add Dragons to that list. Even if you consider their ability to be a magical effect that only works in the presense of said language, that leaves the Ice Dragon who does not have that ability, but instead gets like a dozen language skills to start with.

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:50 am**

I would say that only few computer dictionary software might have it (maybe a collectors piece, which gets you to another adventure). And basically would be a literacy language (as nobody would speak it).

Just my 2 cents.

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:38 am**

Couldn't you accelerate how long it takes to learn a language if you used the spell tongues or eyes of Thoth. Both magically give the person it's caste upon I think 80-96% fluent/literate in that language.

I've also let players in my campaign use psionics to know how to speak a langauage, they have to roll for it but when you have a major psionic with nearly every psionic power It's going to be hard to argue the point of "You can't use psionics that way."

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:52 pm**

If you believe that magic still existed (in limited form) in the time before the Rifts...then Latin would be a powerful magical language.

Remember...Latin was used to expell and exercise demons...

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:39 pm**

er, aces to donuts arch has it on a diskette somewhere.

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:47 pm**

gadrin wrote:
Shinitenshi wrote:
Is Latin a completely dead language on Rifts earth? Is it possible to get Latin as a Language or Literacy skill?

completely dead ? no. it should be thriving in the Wulfen cities/populations in europe.

Yes Latin has seen a revival.

For other languages they can be compared to other living languages, languages that were created from these older languages they can be learned. You will also need a rosetta stone, (lists several languages for the same word to form a foundation or base set for the language). It is therefore possible to learn dead languages but there must be special circumstances for it.

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:50 pm**

9voltkilowatt wrote:
wolfe wrote:The ones I would place bets on knowing this skill would be the Rulian Translator R.C.C. Splynn Dimensional Market pg.87.

You can add Dragons to that list. Even if you consider their ability to be a magical effect that only works in the presense of said language, that leaves the Ice Dragon who does not have that ability, but instead gets like a dozen language skills to start with.

Huh? Dragons do not learn new lanugages automatically. No species does.

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:54 pm**

No species does but with Spells and psionics, and tattoo magic you can learn languages nearly instantly.

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:59 pm**

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
9voltkilowatt wrote:
wolfe wrote:The ones I would place bets on knowing this skill would be the Rulian Translator R.C.C. Splynn Dimensional Market pg.87.

You can add Dragons to that list. Even if you consider their ability to be a magical effect that only works in the presense of said language, that leaves the Ice Dragon who does not have that ability, but instead gets like a dozen language skills to start with.

Huh? Dragons do not learn new lanugages automatically. No species does.

DOH! I was reading about dragons and transposed what I was reading with what I was writing. I meant to say demons, most demons magically know all languages.

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:49 pm**

Spark wrote:Couldn't you accelerate how long it takes to learn a language if you used the spell tongues or eyes of Thoth. Both magically give the person it's caste upon I think 80-96% fluent/literate in that language.

I would say no. Telepathy, perhaps, since you'd be able to understand what a person means you to see, even if you can't understand their language, but I view Tongues as providing the equivalent of a Star Trek translator device... you don't even hear the original language, just a translation.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:39 am**

This is true. I can read and translate a fair chunk of Latin, but if you ask me to speak it to you, it sound like a monkey trying to speak Dolphin.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:16 am**

Zerebus wrote:
Greyaxe wrote:No species does but with Spells and psionics, and tattoo magic you can learn languages nearly instantly.

Only for the duration of the magic, then you forget it.

Me, I've sometimes played Dragonese as being Latin, Demongogian as being Aramaic, Dyvalian as ancient Greek, Ogre as being an ancient Germanic tongue, etc.

Total Recall

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:17 am**

Shinitenshi wrote:My character is a Rogue Scientist with no psionics and no magic. Language translators wouldn't work due to her wanting to read Latin, not really speak it. I think with the skills of archeology and pre rifts history she should be able to take Latin as a Literacy skill.

Yes I think she could

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:34 pm**

Won't they still classify animals in Latin. If they do the languange might be familiar but not compleatly known. I would allow it with a -20 to the skill.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:10 pm**

Alejandro wrote:
Ronin Shinobi wrote:Won't they still classify animals in Latin. If they do the languange might be familiar but not compleatly known. I would allow it with a -20 to the skill.

Doubtful. That practice probably would've been completely redone as mankind struggled out of the blackness. I doubt that humanity even has 1/8th of the knowledge it did on animals that it used to have back in the Golden Age. Most creatures, d-bees, demons, and the like have all been recatagorized in American.

so the average person won't know latin, but rogue scholars and rogue scientists will.

latin is one of those languages that is preserved because it is useful to the scientific world. even if it died out in most places, odds are it will be ressurected when people start reading old books and start getting back into science. in places like Lazlo with it's big library, odds are you'll find a few latin text books, and a lot of books on science using latin.

plus the afformentioned dimensional travellers, mages, ect.

like today, latin in rifts is likely a 'dead' language to most of the world, but has been preserved by those few who still have use for it.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:01 am**

Alejandro wrote:
Greyaxe wrote:
Zerebus wrote:
Greyaxe wrote:No species does but with Spells and psionics, and tattoo magic you can learn languages nearly instantly.

Only for the duration of the magic, then you forget it.

Me, I've sometimes played Dragonese as being Latin, Demongogian as being Aramaic, Dyvalian as ancient Greek, Ogre as being an ancient Germanic tongue, etc.

Total Recall

Still wouldn't work. The ability to speak every language using Tongues and the reading ability to understand every language doesn't work by telling you how it's done, instead it magically lets your brain figure out what it means temporarily. All Total Recall would do would let you remember what you read...not what it meant.

So what about casting Tongues as a ritual with Permanence?

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:35 am**

This is a bit of a stretch, but isn't Atlantean very similar to Latin? So if a character knew that language he would be able to read/speak Latin, even in a limited fashion. I'm getting this from the RCC species, the Oni. They have a language that is like Japanese, so if one were to go to Japan they'd have a 50-56% chance to understand what's said.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:38 pm**

Atlaneans speak Greek, which is the foundation language to latin.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:24 pm**

So technicaly Latin would survive in some form. Also wouldn't Lazlo have some record of the language.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:36 pm**

Whether it would or is bing used or not is not the question. Whether the player's character can learn it is. If there is someone that does know it, then it is possible for the character to be taught the language.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:36 pm**

Shinitenshi wrote:OK another stupid question from my brain. Is Latin a completely dead language on Rifts earth? Is it possible to get Latin as a Language or Literacy skill? Most of the other players say it's dead and that no one on rifts earth would have ever heard of it. I argue there are a lot of dead languages on earth today, but there are still people who know and learn them. They say since NO ONE knows Latin then no one could be taught Latin. I disagree, there are people out there that learn things on their own. I would like to know if there is any official ruling on whether Latin can be learned.

P.S. I'm not saying just anyone could learn it, but OCC's like Rogue Scholars and Magic Users should be given this option.

Thanks

Someone probably has already mentioned it but I have a bad habit of not reading all posts before responding. I'm sure the Greek Gods in the game speak Latin and as a base language for so many other languages it is hard to be completely gone. I also beleive that the common langauage of all Atlantien's is supposed to be a close derivative.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:34 am**

Greyaxe wrote:Atlaneans speak Greek, which is the foundation language to latin.

Wait, what? Since when is Latin based on Greek? I want documented proof of this.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:15 am**

Rayven wrote:
Greyaxe wrote:Atlaneans speak Greek, which is the foundation language to latin.

Wait, what? Since when is Latin based on Greek? I want documented proof of this.

It's not. The Latin alphabet borrows heavily from Greek, and they both come from Indo-European roots, but neither is derived from the other.

http://www.danshort.com/ie/iecentum_c.shtml

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:17 am**

A-51 Spybot from SourceBook 1 has Latin among its skills. Besides, by chance, some rogue scholar may have located a Latin grammar book in a pre-rifts library (here in Spain we learn Latin in High-School - It is very complex so we just get on the language basics, only literacy never spoken).

Maybe Ancient Latin is based on Ancient Greek (I don't really know), but by no way they were similar when full developed, ever they have different writing alphabet. :eek:

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:27 am**

Darkmax wrote:ancient Greek is the foundation for Ancient Latin which was more extensively used in Roman times.

Not according to the chart that Todd linked to, which is how I remember it. Greek is a Hellenistic language, which has no similarities to the Italic (sometimes called Romantic) languages.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:47 am**

Rayven wrote:
Darkmax wrote:ancient Greek is the foundation for Ancient Latin which was more extensively used in Roman times.

Not according to the chart that Todd linked to, which is how I remember it. Greek is a Hellenistic language, which has no similarities to the Italic (sometimes called Romantic) languages.

On the money. Ancient Greek influenced Latin much like Latin influenced English, but there is no linguistic parent/daughter relationship.

I'd really like to see some citation that says otherwise.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:53 am**

mobuttu wrote:A-51 Spybot from SourceBook 1 has Latin among its skills.

I don't have my source book 1 with me but if that was the design by Archie I'm not surprised it has the skill. Since Archie is a Prerift machine.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:59 am**

Far back enough to be considered Prerift hence it's vast knowledge, which would include Latin.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:03 pm**

Never specifed which veriation. Also Archie is a highly advanced AI. I'm certain it'll have all forms of the latin language for deciphering purposes. Beside this is an RPG. I highly doubt what verstion of latin is going to play a part in the campaign.

Posted: **Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:47 am**

Shinitenshi wrote:OK another stupid question from my brain. Is Latin a completely dead language on Rifts earth? Is it possible to get Latin as a Language or Literacy skill? Most of the other players say it's dead and that no one on rifts earth would have ever heard of it. I argue there are a lot of dead languages on earth today, but there are still people who know and learn them. They say since NO ONE knows Latin then no one could be taught Latin. I disagree, there are people out there that learn things on their own. I would like to know if there is any official ruling on whether Latin can be learned.

P.S. I'm not saying just anyone could learn it, but OCC's like Rogue Scholars and Magic Users should be given this option.

Thanks

How many Catholics have survived the rifts to the modern era? If the return of the ley lines empowered Priests with miraculous powers, then I Imagine they would include Latin or Aramaic in their spell casting. Still, there would be enough surviving computer programing for language translator programs, I believe the Rulian translator can speak latin as a starting language.

Posted: **Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:04 am**

Another thought, The Vatican has one of the most incredible Archives of world knowledge of all types on earth. All sorts of things may have been saved there...

Posted: **Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:17 pm**

Darkmax wrote:yes... but never shared.

Probably a dragon with a fondness for old tapestry's and big shiny hats sitting on the whole thing.

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