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I have been giving this a lot of thought and i am of the opinion the WP's for Naruni weapons are better served by the old WP, revolver, auto pistol, sub machine gun, rifle, heavy weapon WP's. As one other poster pointed out they are not really energy weapons because the guns themselves don’t generate any plasma, they just fire a cartridge that does. Therefore I think rather than use WP e-pistol e-rifle and Heavy-e we should be using the aforementioned WP's.

Darkmax wrote:good point. So does that mean you're going to give them that sharpshooter skill and all those related to the old-style weapons?....

Well Sharpshooting skills apply to all wp's and I definatly would use sharpshooting if i ever get a character with the PP for it.

Greyaxe wrote:Therefore I think rather than use WP e-pistol e-rifle and Heavy-e we should be using the aforementioned WP's.

Agreed.

Though I have been doing it that way for awhile now. Glad someone else sees the logic in that approach, and thus it prooves that I am not insane (when it comes to Plasma Cartridge weapons at least).

~ Josh

Makes sense to me(have run it like that before, depending on what the group thinks) but the Weapon Proficiency skill isn't just shooting the gun, it also gives you knowledge on the workings of the gun. "The character will know how to handle the weapon safly, reload, disassemble, unjam, clean and otherwise maintian the gun" So would WP Revolver still work on what is a essentially a energy gun?

I think they have more in common with the old slug throwers then with a laser rifle, especially when you are looking at maintenance and such. NE guns seem to be a tube built to withstand the energy release of the cartridge, as opposed to fiber optics and super conductors that transfer battery energy into a laser beam.

I see a problem here. When it comes to operating and maintaining the piece then sure, a Naruni plasma cartridge weapon is gonna be a lot more similar to the way a 20th century firearm works than the way a futuristic energy weapon works. But when it comes to hitting stuff with the damn thing it's gonna work exactly like any other plasma weapon. Now I'm not exactly sure how a coherent blast of plasma would act (mainly because plasma just doesn't want to stay coherent over any great distance in the real world), but I think it's safe to assume that everything you've ever learned about how to hit long-range targets with bullets doesn't apply here. Do plasma weapons have "drop"? Who knows? Do you have to worry about wind direction with plasma weapons? Who knows? And then there's stuff that bullets don't worry about but plasma might. Would magnetic fields in the area put a bit of unwanted curve on the trajectory of your shot? Would damp weather reduce the range of a plasma weapon? Would plasma arc or dissipate if it passes too close to metal or other conductive materials en route to the target?

Oh and for the record, plasma ain't concentrated light. It's the state of matter you get when you take something that was already hot enough to be a gas and heat it up further. Once the temperature gets insanely hot enough, the molecules of the gas break down and the individual atoms ionize, because some of their outermost layer of electrons get so much energy that they can go walkabout all by themselves. Basically plasma is a superheated cloud of free electrons and ionised atoms.

For a good example of what plasma looks like, stare directly into the sun (or better yet, save your eyesight and look at some astronomy photos). The entire corona of the sun is nothing but good old fashioned plasma.

Which I guess brings us around to recoil. Plasma weapons will have it. They're firing matter, and matter has mass. And given the fact that plasma really doesn't like to hang around in one place, I think we can safely assume that it's shooting this matter really really fast to ensure that it hasn't dissipated too much of its energy by the time it slams into its target like a flammable batch of ten-thousand-degree-celcius battery acid.

For simplicity I just ruled them all as Heavy Energy(now it would be Heavy MD), but then your approach has a logic that I overlooked.

If you get right down to it then NE cartridge weapons should have their own WP, but it has never worked that way. I still like the Revolver WP and such idea. I could see being a difference in shooting a Plasma Cartridge at 500ft vs a .38 Special, but then again their should probably be differences between a CS pulse laser pistol, NEMA ion pistol, Phase pistol, Triax FSE laser pistol, and Wilks laser pistol should probably have different WPs as well. I would think with minimal training someone skilled with WP: Automatic Pistol, or WP: Energy Pistol could be taught to use a NE handgun equally well. This lets them sell to the widest group of clients with minimum retraining.

Again, I think it comes down to whatever way your particular gaming group figures that plasma cartridges work: if you like the notion that they turn into plasma energy, then they are "plasma ejectors" and fall under WP heavy (energy).

our particular group treats the cartridge as a solid, exploding slug. Naruni weapons are thus autocannons, and would use the aforementioned WPs.

Braden is right. The only problem I see with the WP Heavy is what do you do with things like the slim line derringer? Something that small and light really shouldn't be WP: Heavy. For SMGs on up it works.

They use conventional mechanical actions but generate energy beams.

So they are either both or neither.

So you can create a set of new WPs (WP Energy-Cartridge Handguns, WP Energy-Cartridge Rifles, WP Energy-Cartridge Heavy Weapons)

or

You can say that the character needs both the conventional and energy WP that are most applicable

or

You cna decide the character needs eithe th conventional or energy WP that are most applicable.

What about the CTF guns which use old style WPs?

My answer holds for them too.

Darkmax wrote:so, braden... care to share your group's view of the mechanics of a plasma cartridge with me?.... I would like a different view to it.

Simple.

They are like a big exploding bullet, or if you perfer, a really tiny missile. They would be guns similar in operation to the now-cancelled OICW, firing a "slug" instead of an energy blast.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:

Darkmax wrote:so, braden... care to share your group's view of the mechanics of a plasma cartridge with me?.... I would like a different view to it.

Simple.

They are like a big exploding bullet, or if you perfer, a really tiny missile. They would be guns similar in operation to the now-cancelled OICW, firing a "slug" instead of an energy blast.

But um... they're not. Triax pump weapons are a nice example of an MDC weapon that basically acts like an old-fashioned firarm only with a slug that explodes on impact, but going by the description in the book, Naruni cartridge weapons ain't. Once the hammer hits the back of the shell, it gets converted in the barrel and your gun fires out a blast of plasma just like any other plasma weapon.

The Wilks energy cartridges specifically say they work as WP: Revolver etc.

unlike some people that need to worship or be worshiped frm afar, i actually agree with TW's point of view.

its the one that makes the most sense. plasma to me ... has more in common with a Napalm type weapon. thus would need a canister to hold the charge/fuel.

but hey, thats MY opinion, and we know what you all think of my thoughts, don't we?

Part of the problem is that it seems there is a difference among us all on how we see the plasma cartridge working. Is it filled with a jelly like substance? Is it a mix of an energy source, and the mechanism to convert said stored energy into a plasma discharge? The same goes for CTFs.

I tend to go with both Naruni Plasma Cartridges and Wilks CTFs being part mni e-clip, and part conversion mechanism. The CTF can be shot out of a normal gun so it has to have all the tech goodies along with the energy source built into the cartridge. I feel the same about Naruni Plasma Cartridges. The only thing I really have to back that up is the fact that you can make a serviceable mine out of just the cartridges.

I still think that it would make sense for NE to be have the widest possible consumer market available. So any guy with WP: Energy Pistol, Revolver, or Automatic Pistol could make use of some, or all of their handguns, while WP: Energy Rifle, Energy Heavy, Automatic Rifle, and Submachine Gun could all make use of some or all of their long guns.

Go with what Jafar said.

RockJock wrote:Part of the problem is that it seems there is a difference among us all on how we see the plasma cartridge working. Is it filled with a jelly like substance? Is it a mix of an energy source, and the mechanism to convert said stored energy into a plasma discharge? The same goes for CTFs.

I tend to go with both Naruni Plasma Cartridges and Wilks CTFs being part mni e-clip, and part conversion mechanism. The CTF can be shot out of a normal gun so it has to have all the tech goodies along with the energy source built into the cartridge. I feel the same about Naruni Plasma Cartridges. The only thing I really have to back that up is the fact that you can make a serviceable mine out of just the cartridges.

I still think that it would make sense for NE to be have the widest possible consumer market available. So any guy with WP: Energy Pistol, Revolver, or Automatic Pistol could make use of some, or all of their handguns, while WP: Energy Rifle, Energy Heavy, Automatic Rifle, and Submachine Gun could all make use of some or all of their long guns.

Go with what Jafar said.

What is a CTF?

Sorry, CFT, not CTF. They are the laser cartridges built my Wilks. They are in New West and the GMG. They are all old west style handguns and rifles, and it is stated that the CFT cartridges can be fired out of a standard SDC gun, but may blow it up.

Honestly I assume old style WPs to apply to both CFT and NE Cartridge weapons. It feeds, and for the most part acts like an SDC firearm. The CFTs can even fire regular ammo if I recall correctly.

The ONLY practical difference between NE cartridge firearm vs say.. a C-29 is really the way you'd go about cleaning and maintaing the weapon. The only real difference between an NE cartridge weapon an an equvilant SDC weapon as far as usage goes, is with the latter you'd have to deal with bullet drop at extreme range. And the NE cartridge weapon would likely be inheriently more accurate.

And honestly that's such a small thing that it hardly warrants it's on WP. I mean the thing I never really agreed with most RPGs, especially RIfts is that so many of them have a ranged WP for just about every type of firearm there is.

Handguns, SMG, Shotguns and Rifles are extremely similar in their use. The same basic principles apply to firing, aiming, and maintaing them. To me really I'd probalby only have Small arms, MD Small arms, Heavy weapons, MD Heavy Weapons and Flamethrower.

Ancient weapons are a slightly different beast all togeather since there's a ton of differen tfighting styles/techniques etc.

Modern small arms on the other hand are insanely easy to use, only marginally mroe difficult to clean maintain. The major difference between handguns is usually the relability, accuracy, and recoil.

Firing a gun that gives you minimal to no recoil is honestly not any differen than firing a gun that has sever recoil. The difference is really in handling it. Minimal to no recoil means you can fire quickly and accurately. The heavy recoil means you have to pace your shots.

The only reason I sort of buy the seperating Rifles from Handguns and SMGs is theres slightlyd ifferent ways you can use them. But honestly it's really minimal in my experience. And it certainly doesnt take long to learn.

Sniping on the other hand and actually learning to accurately account for bullet drop (which is not something you normally have to do with handguns, shotguns nor often with SMGs), wind correction etc. There's considerably more that goes into that. And thats why I'm fine with there being a sniping skill. Though Honestly I tend to feel it should be actualy -needed- to snipe properly rather than just being a paltry +2 aimed shot bonus.

Ehh but getting back on track. IN the end because they are cartridge feed weapons, and because, the only mechanism for the plasma ball is entirely contained in said catrdige. I use the 'SDC" firearm WPs for them.

If this wasnt the case then you coudlnt use the NE catriges on their own. Plain and simple. Like the EEP weapons in Australia where while they use a cartridge, and can infact fire SDC rounds, the catridges MUST have an external additional input to fire (Thus why the EEP weapons need a charged eclip to fire)

Even then I still treat those with the SDC firearms WP. But in the end I dont really care as long as the GM lets me know ahead of time what WP i tneeds and doenst suddenly change their mind on me.