Problem with Lemaria

[Library Ogre]

Isis is a goddess with many facets. Perhaps, in her view, the people of Lemaria serve as a just balance on other societies.

I agree; they're pretty much strandrobbers and stereotypical feminazis.

[Library Ogre]

People who rob foundered ships of their cargo (and crew). The Lemarian system is pretty much guaranteed to make slaves of any 1st generation man who lands on Lemaria.

Assuming you're a standard ship, you're likely to be largely male, with almost every one of you either armed or capable of becoming armed in short order. You crash on Lemaria, and a bunch of riders come up to you. Your first reaction? Draw weapons, protect your cargo and friends, figure out what's going on... but you're guilty of a crime which merits a public flogging just for that fairly logical reaction (Law 5, the Crime of Keeping Unauthorized Weapons). Of course, your cargo is confiscated, so now you're destitute... which is also a crime, punishable by slavery (1 year). As slaves, you have 1 year to find legitimate work for once you get out, or you're charged with Destitution AGAIN, for another round of slavery.

And this doesn't include other crimes that might be committed; if you defended yourself beyond raising your weapons, casually cursed while greeting the "welcoming committee". All priests (who are not absolutely silent about their faith) and men of magic (who do not hide their powers) are killed upon landing. Warlocks have no chance of survival; they are instantly recognized and killed (their life sign being immediately obvious to other warlocks).

Women have a better chance of making it, but it's a very odd place, and I'm surprised there aren't more people striking out into the Forbidden Area once they're free of their initial slavery.

[FreelancerMar]

@mark hall
As of 2nd edition writeup, what makes you think that any 1st gen shipwreked/stranded male will ever be given the oppertunity to NOT be slaves???? They have way too many dangerous ideas. Not to mention that most male Priests/Men of Magic will not know to keep their mouths shut because they will attempt to defend themselves if need be.

@ Swoed Dancer
Any non-female/non-human priest of Isis bearing her holy symbol is automatically guilty of Hersey and blasphemy in the eyes of the islands inhabitance to be punished by immediate execution.

@All
All Things considered, I like the 1st edition writeup better.

[The Dark Elf]

Gods+girl power=strandrobbing.

[FreelancerMar]

One must also remember the enviornment you are in. This is a society that was created by a Female that was horribaly abused in the world of men. Men basically have no rights at all and are almost without exception treated as slaves from birth. Some are just trusted more and treated better than others. If a man even so much as raises his voice to a woman he can expect to be immediately slapped into chains to join the rest of the poorly treated slaves in the back-breaking labor camps. Many(ie most)non-Human Races are also seen as monsters to be destroyed on sight without exception. This includes your Male Wolfen priest of Isis which would be immediately targeted not only as a monster but also as a Threat to the established order of only Woman alone may be Warlocks and/or Priests. A double nono. The Male Wolfen Priest would recieve the exact same treatment as a Male Warlock. Immediate Execution on the spot without trial.

As I previously Stated, The 1st edition writeup is definately not as harsh as the 2nd edition in many of the things concearning this little Island nation.

[FreelancerMar]

Playing Devils Advocate here.

One must also remember that these women are and have been devout followers of the goddess dating back 500 years with all of the islands laws unchanged. The Islands Priests do wield Real magical power granted by the goddess herself. One also has to consider the Island Inhabitants POV on such matters. They have been delivered to this island by the goddess freed from the tyrany of man whom will never again influence or control them. The Wolfens Crime on top of being a monster is being a male priest of isis which is an unforgivable sin and a crime against all that they hold dear not to mention a threat to their way of life in which they absolutely will not tolerate or allow to continue. The person with the holy sword(If Male) must have stolen it for which the punishment is also an instant Execution without a trial. In short they will not tolerate any powerful male(outsider) regardless of race within their society no matter whom or what they may be and also will not listen to anything they have to say lest they be corrupted.
(one of the reasons why the church and the government should always be kept seperate.)
Status in Society depends greatly on which society you happen to be in. In the case of Lemaria if you are a male of any species, your pretty much hosed. If you happen to be a Male + a Warlock/Priest of Isis, your DOA without exception.

This kind of reminds me of the real life Musilum(probably mispelled)Religions out there Espically in the Middle East Were Property, livestock, and even the family pet are treated better than women are. In this game setting, just swap the genders and there you go.

[FreelancerMar]

@ Sword-Dancer
I did not mean to offend about my comments about Islam. It's just that all of my "Limited" knowledge about how I have seen it practiced led me to the conclusion that I came to.
@all
I am also just going by the information that I have about This Island Nation. Any male regardless of race possessing a Holy Artifact and/or wielding the holy power of the goddess or the elements is automatically guilty of a capitol crime to be immediately executed on the spot and will not be given any time to explain themselves out of fear of being punished or corrupted.

Many different things depend on ones point of view. The point of view of those incharge of this society is that all males are inherrantly evil and if they were allowed true freedom the evilness would take over. If this female dominated society had existed on the mainland for any real length of time and were discovered by an outside civilation, it probably would have been wiped off the face of the planet almost immediately upon discovery. Almost Every Majior kingdom on the palladium world has laws in place in order to prevent females from ataining any kind of real political power. Not to mention that many abuses against women are often ignored and go unpunished. Is it any wonder why the society of Lemaria turned out the way that it did???

In many cases point of view is EVERYTHING when it comes to a society and those that are incapable of comming around to shareing the general publics point of view(as in Lematia's case) are either enslaved or destroyed or both. This is why 1st gen shipwrecked males new to the island will never be given the oppertunity to not be a slave mainly due to the fact that they are likely to have way too many "Dangerous" thoughts and ideas.

[drewkitty ~..~]

How could anybody claim, that the rulers of Lemaria and their Henchmen are not a gang of tyrants and Strand robbers(including cold blooded murder)?

sounds like you are not familiar with the medieval mindset of the rulers. Those are things that the "nobles" and "royals" did to maintain their power.

The Koran does say that "conversion by the sword" (killing all those that do not at least mouth a conversion) is a acceptable tactic to spread islam.

And, In a atheistic view of islam the problem is that the "sharia"(spelled it like it sounds) is not actually islamic law, it is the laws of the middle east culture. Otherwise there would be no subjugation of women like there is there in many countries.
Turning the same eye on medieval europe the same problem was with in the catholic church. That their views of the laws of christendom were really just the laws of the culture.


My point is, that what is that while many in a land will mouth allegiance to a faith (some will believe they are of that faith.) but are not a true follower of the deity. They may have a veneer/facade of being an upright believer. But with their actions they prove they are not a disciple of that faith.
This false believer with a facade of uprightness is what most rulers tend to be.
SO I am not surprised that the rulers are not following the tenants of the faith they say they follow.

[X'Zanthar]

An old semi-retired character (A high priestess of Isis) has returned to the isle and has worked on reforming it to a kindler, gentler system. While it does have less hostility toward (some) monsters, such as emrin and centaurs, it does need work on the men, although there is progress, a man is mindwiped and returned via several methods.

[FreelancerMar]

In the books that I have where nobole houses are concearned(and yes it does say this even in the western empire book on page 18) That the position of head of a Nobole house or family almost always goes to the oldest MALE heir of ruling age. It also says that if there is no male hier of ruling age then the position is temporarily given to a Regent until there is a male heir of ruling age. Thus even if a woman does gain this kind of political power, it is only temporary until the closest male heir turns 16 and becomes the head of the household. But this is off topic.

@XZanthar.
You just admited that this character is an outsider(anyone that is not a life long resident of the island)which means that this person is likely to have very little to no influence at all when it comes to this societies laws and policies.

[FreelancerMar]

In the books that I have where nobole houses are concearned(and yes it does say this even in the western empire book on page 18) That the position of head of a Nobole house or family almost always goes to the oldest MALE heir of ruling age. .

One great house is ruled by a woman.

The Icefox is a female General in the Eastern Territoories, in command of a major fortress and Theater, they don´t ´ve many of them

Probably because there are no male heirs because if there was when HE turns 16, SHE would loose everything. This includes the possability of her bearing a SON which means when her son turns 16 (if he even lives to reach that age) she is hosed.

I also did not say every kingdom, I said every "MAJOR" Kingdom. Eastern Teritories are pocket or minor kingdoms. However I do believe I have made my point. I will GO through the WE book again to make sure that I have not Missed something. It's been a while since I have gone through my books.

[X'Zanthar]

In the books that I have where nobole houses are concearned(and yes it does say this even in the western empire book on page 18) That the position of head of a Nobole house or family almost always goes to the oldest MALE heir of ruling age. It also says that if there is no male hier of ruling age then the position is temporarily given to a Regent until there is a male heir of ruling age. Thus even if a woman does gain this kind of political power, it is only temporary until the closest male heir turns 16 and becomes the head of the household. But this is off topic.

@XZanthar.
You just admited that this character is an outsider(anyone that is not a life long resident of the island)which means that this person is likely to have very little to no influence at all when it comes to this societies laws and policies.

It was along time ago, but I remember the character being influential in saving the isle from an invasion by a pirate force long after the scenario I believe was in the book. The some of the leaders of the isle were dead and there was alot of confusion, along comes a high priestess of Isis with an actual bit of intervention to get her in good. The PC is not in-charge and lives off in a village of her own. And it has been, what some 100 years (rough guess) exposure to this mythic PC (probably past 15th level, and a middle aged looking human to add mystery).

[FreelancerMar]

If Isis likes this guy so much, she won't allow the Lemarians to harm him. She'll remove their powers if they try to harm him or, if pressed, strike them down herself. That's the thing with Gods... Push them too far on the wrong subject and they WILL smite you.

The gods also seldom interfere or intervene with the affairs of Mortals or Lesser creatures. They also usually have short memories when it comes to Mortals and/or Lesser creatures no matter whom they may be. The Priests reward for their Faith and Servitude is the abilities that they have been granted by the deity. Otherwise there is no intervention. The god also should not be expected to pull the Priests fat out of the fire when the priest gets into trouble. As Long as the priest continues to faithly serve it's deity(s) they will keep their priestly abilities. Also the job of most Priests is to attend/administer to the needs of the current worshipers and/or bring in or convert new worshopers to their faith. This happens on Lemaria on a fairly regular basis.

[Ankhr]

Long story short, if the women of Lemuria SAW clear signs that a man was a priest or champion of Isis and then INGORED IT... Isis might say something then or give them enough rope as the saying goes. A champion/ priest of hers on a mission for her would get saved , or avenged if too late. A special case such as a sign Isis placed on a person would have Isis ask her priestess why they didn't recognized it was from the goddess. Isis might not keep an eye on the male unless it's important, so she might avenge, rescue, etc.. depending on the scenerio. She'd get mad if the priestess just said a man can't do/be that regardless of the info. Then it would hit the fan. I mean how'd you think a goddess would react if her clergy defended themselves by saying " Yes we saw your holy sign on him, and we couldn't remove it. And yes he passed every test. We know all were tricks. WE know you would never give a man that position." Putting words in a god's mouth are a good way to end up meeting them.

[FreelancerMar]

@Ankhr

On this island, the priests are not the ones that meet newcomers. This society has had at least 400+ years of conditioning/brainwashing that basically states that any male reguardless of race that wields the power of the elements or the holy power of the goddess is an abomination that has to be destroyed immediately upon discovery without exception. This would usually happen before any newcomers would even have the chance to be granted an audience with one of the native priests.

[Ankhr]

I had a nice reply, but I hit the enter button, and my pc took me back a page. Basically, I see Lemuria as having some similaraties with the CS. Both cultures have rebuilt from the ashes of an older one, with a tragic encounter with an enemy who shaped their culture. I mean if Isis plopped into a major ceremony in a temple in Cassandra and said " Here is my preist, respect him! ".. then yeah, I see changes or a civil war. I saw in Adventures on the High Sea that the women give enemies a chance to surrender. The party was soildiers,warlocks and or priests. I see this as a setting so to speak, like the CS. In both cases the people are as much as a setting as the location. There are scenerioes thay would give the Lemurians pause ( a Priest of Isis who keeps his powers while the priestesses lose theirs, or a demigod or godling son of Isis, etc..). Either Isis has a plan for Lemuria , has no time/intrest, or they're doing ok for now.

[FreelancerMar]

As I said in a previous post that I was playing devils advocate here and I am having fun with it. =) Also, it probably would take Direct Devine Intervention(Which is probably Not Bloody Likely to happen) in order to change this society's law's etc.. And even then there are probably enough OTHERS with power on the Island, aside from the religion, that would not want or allow these changes to happen and would therefore start a civil war to retain control of the political power on the island. This would probably make a very big mess of things.