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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:21 pm
by Northern Ranger
You make a good point, it would be a good idea to simplify things a bit. I think that Mr. Nexx (Mark hall) is attempting something very similar to that with his upcoming book Mysteries of magic. i don't think there's anything like simplifying the system, but it should make finding the specific spells a little easier. (Unless I'm completely wrong in what he's doing.)
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:16 pm
by Library Ogre
You are wrong, NR. For the most part, I worked within the constraints of the system presented. However, I like some of the outlines of Masterhth's ideas; have you considered developing them into a Rifter article, as an alternate form of magic?
FWIW, I personally dislike spells that scale with level, yet remain fixed in cost (i.e. Call Lightning, which always costs 15 P.P.E., whether it does 1D6 or 15D6). I prefer spells to have a fixed cost for a fixed effect, with, in some cases, the option to get a greater effect by spending more.
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:52 pm
by Yisterwald
MrNexx wrote:FWIW, I personally dislike spells that scale with level, yet remain fixed in cost (i.e. Call Lightning, which always costs 15 P.P.E., whether it does 1D6 or 15D6). I prefer spells to have a fixed cost for a fixed effect, with, in some cases, the option to get a greater effect by spending more.
I do too. Not only is the image of a wizard obtaining and weilding greater power as s/he gains experience satisfying, I like the flexibility that type of system provides. Want a big effect? Blast away! Want a small effect? Use just what you need and conserve your energies for later.
Very wizardly.
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:54 am
by Veknironth
Well, it might be the fact that I'm accustomed to the current system, but what MasterHth presented doesn't seem like it's that much easier. The problem with something like magic is there are no laws of physics to govern how it can or can't be used. It only has the restraints that are put on it by the game designer's imagination. These restraints are necessary, though, to give some structure.
As for the greater or lesser damage for a spell, I always felt that a mage can do less damage, or shorten the duration of a spell as he or she sees fit. However, the amount of damage or duration of a spell should be consistent with the level of the mage. I.E. a higher level mage can do more damage or whatever than a lower level mage can hope to. I wouldn't like a lower level mage to be able to do the same damage.
-Vek
"Something should be done with the casting speeds, though."
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:08 am
by Library Ogre
Veknironth wrote:-Vek
"Something should be done with the casting speeds, though."
Addressed.
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:56 pm
by Northern Ranger
MrNexx wrote:You are wrong, NR. For the most part, I worked within the constraints of the system presented. However, I like some of the outlines of Masterhth's ideas; have you considered developing them into a Rifter article, as an alternate form of magic?
FWIW, I personally dislike spells that scale with level, yet remain fixed in cost (i.e. Call Lightning, which always costs 15 P.P.E., whether it does 1D6 or 15D6). I prefer spells to have a fixed cost for a fixed effect, with, in some cases, the option to get a greater effect by spending more.
I stand corrected with apologies to Mr. Nexx. Now that you mention it, I'm not really fond of those spells either. (I tend say Call Lightning, for example, costs 15 PPE per level, or per D6 of damage, whichever they prefer.)
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:56 am
by Library Ogre
Northern Ranger wrote:I stand corrected with apologies to Mr. Nexx.
Oh, no need to apologize; I've been having to tap-dance around what's actually in the book for five years, now.
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:20 pm
by Northern Ranger
aracroft wrote:I know, I know I'm just a pesant so what do I know but heres my two shaved gold coins worth. While I can understand the idea that you think for the same spell to do more damage you should hve to throw more energy into it, but this is the way it hasalways seemed to me. Take your begining mage. He discovers a new toy (the ability to call lightning down on his foes) now he doesn't understand the how of it, just that what he does works. Conversly your 15th level spell chucker has been (to steal from 'Magician') finding ways to toss energy around for years now understands exactly what forces/circumstances are required to create the same effect. With this increased knowledge it makes perfect sense that he is going to get a whole lot more 'bang for his buck' and so due to his experience and aquired knowledge he has a reasonable but drain free offensive spell so that he can hoard power for the truly nastie critters of the megaverse e.g. your average PC
Being a "Peasant" has nothing to do with it, Aracroft. When I first discovered these boards, I'd already been GMing for more than a decade, and playing for half again that long, so just because you're new to the boards, doesn't mean your opinion is worthless. In fact, you make a good point. There is something to be said for experience.
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:07 pm
by Library Ogre
aracroft wrote:I know, I know I'm just a pesant so what do I know but heres my two shaved gold coins worth.
Rank has nothing to do with it, as NR says. Unless it's one of my old sparring partners, I tend to ignore specifically who I'm talking to, in any case.
While I can understand the idea that you think for the same spell to do more damage you should hve to throw more energy into it, but this is the way it hasalways seemed to me. Take your begining mage. He discovers a new toy (the ability to call lightning down on his foes) now he doesn't understand the how of it, just that what he does works. Conversly your 15th level spell chucker has been (to steal from 'Magician') finding ways to toss energy around for years now understands exactly what forces/circumstances are required to create the same effect. With this increased knowledge it makes perfect sense that he is going to get a whole lot more 'bang for his buck' and so due to his experience and aquired knowledge he has a reasonable but drain free offensive spell so that he can hoard power for the truly nastie critters of the megaverse e.g. your average PC
To an extent, I can see this, and I wouldn't have a problem with something on par with a bonus to damage, or proficiencies aligned to specific spells to give bonuses to strike and damage... representing benefits of experience with certain spells. However, a built-in power-up for the spell means that certain spells simply become too good as the level increases...
Here, my comment on it from a while ago, since I'm heading out to dinner.
http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/3133.html
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:29 pm
by pblackcrow
Do what I do which is to simply type out the spells, print them, hole punch the pages, and carry them in the same notebook I carry my characters in.