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Posted: **Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:30 pm**

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:The Death bringer has the spell Spinning Blades on it, does that work on the sword or do you cast it on a dagger through the sword? (because at 5th level that would come out to 5D6X10 or 1D6X100 depending on how you interprit the spell using the deathbringer.)

You cast it on another sword. Spinning blades dosen't work on magic weapons

Posted: **Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:20 pm**

Wouldn't be the first sword to break the magical weapon rules. Look at Battle Fury blades....

Posted: **Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:37 am**

Generally speaking, spells that have the 'cannot be used on magical weapons' rule are null and void if actually part of the weapon's spell repitoire.

Posted: **Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:41 am**

The Last Darkness wrote:Crazy as this seems I do belive it was intended to be used with the Deathbringer Sword. 5d6x10 I think.
It does say the sword can mow down a Super Samas.

*looks at sword*

it says 5d6 damage. where the frell are you getting x10 from?

Posted: **Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:30 pm**

The Last Darkness wrote:So 180-1080 MD or half that for the lower power version of the sword.
I do belive that would cut a Super Samas in half after all.

That

book

needs

to

be

burned

-even with the power crawl I'm sure such a weapon wouldn't make past it's insomniac induced creation, the spinning blades is to be used on other blades by the character(self)

Posted: **Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:29 pm**

they cost the same as a samas, there's a reason they're powerful

Posted: **Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:38 pm**

The Last Darkness wrote:Ok after looking at the Fed book.
It does say Spinning blade (Self)

The Sword does 1d6x10 MD
The powers of the sword place it at 8th lvl spell strength.

So with Spinning blades thats 9 Blades that do 1d6x10 each.
But used as a buzzsaw attack thats double.
So 2d6x10 MD x9 is the final equation I belive for at least the full power version of the sword. Theres one thats also 5d6 but still thats 1d6x10 x9 MD

So 180-1080 MD or half that for the lower power version of the sword.
I do belive that would cut a Super Samas in half after all.

Out of curiosity, have you ever read the spell spinning blades? You're math is way off. The extra blades created by spinning blades DOES NOT multiply the damage of the spell at all. It creates magical blades that do 1D6 mdc each, and one blade per level of the spell.

So if you used the spell on the deathbringer, and wanted to use the buzzsaw attack, it would do 1D6x10 from the sword, and 16d6 damage from the magical blades for a total of 2d6x10+6D6 NOT 18d6x10.

quite the difference between a max of 156 damage and 1080 damage. Plus, remember, if you use the saw blade attack, you're throwing the sword away, meaning if there's another guy down feild that wasn't your target, you just gave him a 1-2 million dollar sword.

Posted: **Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:00 pm**

The Last Darkness wrote:
Scrud wrote:
The Last Darkness wrote:So 180-1080 MD or half that for the lower power version of the sword.
I do belive that would cut a Super Samas in half after all.
That book needs to be burned

-even with the power crawl I'm sure such a weapon wouldn't make past it's insomniac induced creation, the spinning blades is to be used on other blades by the character(self)

Deathbringer and Battle Fury weapons are super over powered, especialy in the hands of the uber melee mages in the book like the Battle Magus and the Mystic Knight.
Lol one up time, Fallen Cosmo Knight Battle Magus with Deathbringer is a new munchkin idea. Up there with the LoupGarou with a plasma harness.

While book legal, this couldn't really happen. I highly doubt that the Lords of Magic would let a fallen CK study in their schools to be a protector of their city when they've already proven by the fact that they're fallen that they can't snuff it.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:29 am**

Prince Artemis wrote:
The Last Darkness wrote:
Scrud wrote:
The Last Darkness wrote:So 180-1080 MD or half that for the lower power version of the sword.
I do belive that would cut a Super Samas in half after all.
That book needs to be burned

-even with the power crawl I'm sure such a weapon wouldn't make past it's insomniac induced creation, the spinning blades is to be used on other blades by the character(self)

Deathbringer and Battle Fury weapons are super over powered, especialy in the hands of the uber melee mages in the book like the Battle Magus and the Mystic Knight.
Lol one up time, Fallen Cosmo Knight Battle Magus with Deathbringer is a new munchkin idea. Up there with the LoupGarou with a plasma harness.

While book legal, this couldn't really happen. I highly doubt that the Lords of Magic would let a fallen CK study in their schools to be a protector of their city when they've already proven by the fact that they're fallen that they can't snuff it.

I'm not so sure of that. The Lords of Magic as far as I know are not so high and mighty themselves. I mean to avoid falling as a Cosmo Knight it seems to me you have to pretty much never again have so much as an even slightly selfish thought etc. I mean it flat out requires a Principled or Scrupulous alingment which is honestly, a rather high standard to hold up to.

Aberrant characters for example can be fiercely loyal to those they pledge an oath to for example. What sets them appart as being evil, is really just the lengths to which they are willing to go to to achive the goals they belive in.

I cant quite compare it atm but the CK code if I'm not mistaken, infact allows for a few things a Scrupulous or Principled alingment dont. Yet doing some of those things can risk an alingment change and thus a fall from grace.

Not all fallen CKs are evil either. To err is to be human as they say. I think that sort of combo would really have to be assessed on a 'case by case' basis.

So again then it just comes down to the GM.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:20 am**

The Last Darkness wrote:Ok after looking at the Fed book.
It does say Spinning blade (Self)

The Sword does 1d6x10 MD
The powers of the sword place it at 8th lvl spell strength.

So with Spinning blades thats 9 Blades that do 1d6x10 each.
But used as a buzzsaw attack thats double.
So 2d6x10 MD x9 is the final equation I belive for at least the full power version of the sword. Theres one thats also 5d6 but still thats 1d6x10 x9 MD

So 180-1080 MD or half that for the lower power version of the sword.
I do belive that would cut a Super Samas in half after all.

Actually, no. it says 5d6 MD, ergo, it's 5d6 MD. End of story.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:17 am**

House Rule Solution 1: Ignore the unclear.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:28 pm**

The Last Darkness wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
The Last Darkness wrote:Ok after looking at the Fed book.
It does say Spinning blade (Self)

The Sword does 1d6x10 MD
The powers of the sword place it at 8th lvl spell strength.

So with Spinning blades thats 9 Blades that do 1d6x10 each.
But used as a buzzsaw attack thats double.
So 2d6x10 MD x9 is the final equation I belive for at least the full power version of the sword. Theres one thats also 5d6 but still thats 1d6x10 x9 MD

So 180-1080 MD or half that for the lower power version of the sword.
I do belive that would cut a Super Samas in half after all.

Actually, no. it says 5d6 MD, ergo, it's 5d6 MD. End of story.

Where do you get 5d6 MD from?

The spell wording turns a non magical blade into a magical one and creates +1 copies per spell lvl. The spell lvl of the sword enchants by referencing its other abilities puts it at 8th lvl (Invulnerability comparison)
So it would create a spinning blade that was 9 blades.
Due to the swords wording to circumvent said spell it would start out doing 1d6x10 then the confusion sets in. Do the identical sword copies do the same MD as they specify in the spell as a copies of the origenal weapon or do we interperet it to do the origenal weapons damage?
We will use the 1d6x10 damage version of the sword.
In the Buzzsaw attack the damage it doubled.
So 18d6x10 Damage is one interpretation.
Or 2d6x9 Damage is the other interpretation.
Also 2d6x10(Double Origenal swords damage) plus 8d6 from the copies.
Or 2d6x10+16d6 MD.

As was said its unclear wording on a circumventing origenal spell wording ability. I think I would go with the 2d6x10+8d6 as that is a hefty amount of damage for such a expensive and powerful rare sword. Sounds like a decent compromise compared to just casting spinning blades or having a TW short sword that does spinning blades.

Can you please explain to me where you are comming up with your interpretation. No where in the swords description does it say it creates copies of the sword. No where in the spell does it say it creates copies of the blade. It says simply that it creates an additional magical blade per level of experience. Since damage is already listed in the spell as 1D6 for the magical blades, I have no clue where you're coming up with your 'interpretation'.

Posted: **Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:50 am**

Personally I'd be abit inclined to go with the 1d6 per 'magic' blade created myself with the origional doing what ever damage it does and then for buzzsaw 2d6X10+Xd6

Which to me is plenty. Assuming level 15 casting then if I'm correct that would be base 1d6X10+15d6, 2d6X10+30d6 (or 1d6x10+15d6x2 depending on how you interpret the double damage)

In the end thats an attack that could do up to 300 MDC in a single hit, or 600 MD on a critical unless I've gotten something wrong. And I very well could have. I'm still not all that familar with spells in almost all the games I've played for several years running (I just.. dont play mages)

Posted: **Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:48 pm**

The Last Darkness wrote:
Prince Artemis wrote:
The Last Darkness wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
The Last Darkness wrote:Ok after looking at the Fed book.
It does say Spinning blade (Self)

The Sword does 1d6x10 MD
The powers of the sword place it at 8th lvl spell strength.

So with Spinning blades thats 9 Blades that do 1d6x10 each.
But used as a buzzsaw attack thats double.
So 2d6x10 MD x9 is the final equation I belive for at least the full power version of the sword. Theres one thats also 5d6 but still thats 1d6x10 x9 MD

So 180-1080 MD or half that for the lower power version of the sword.
I do belive that would cut a Super Samas in half after all.

Actually, no. it says 5d6 MD, ergo, it's 5d6 MD. End of story.

Where do you get 5d6 MD from?

The spell wording turns a non magical blade into a magical one and creates +1 copies per spell lvl. The spell lvl of the sword enchants by referencing its other abilities puts it at 8th lvl (Invulnerability comparison)
So it would create a spinning blade that was 9 blades.
Due to the swords wording to circumvent said spell it would start out doing 1d6x10 then the confusion sets in. Do the identical sword copies do the same MD as they specify in the spell as a copies of the original weapon or do we interpret it to do the original weapons damage?
We will use the 1d6x10 damage version of the sword.
In the Buzzsaw attack the damage it doubled.
So 18d6x10 Damage is one interpretation.
Or 2d6x9 Damage is the other interpretation.
Also 2d6x10(Double original swords damage) plus 8d6 from the copies.
Or 2d6x10+16d6 MD.

As was said its unclear wording on a circumventing original spell wording ability. I think I would go with the 2d6x10+8d6 as that is a hefty amount of damage for such a expensive and powerful rare sword. Sounds like a decent compromise compared to just casting spinning blades or having a TW short sword that does spinning blades.

Can you please explain to me where you are coming up with your interpretation. No where in the swords description does it say it creates copies of the sword. No where in the spell does it say it creates copies of the blade. It says simply that it creates an additional magical blade per level of experience. Since damage is already listed in the spell as 1D6 for the magical blades, I have no clue where you're coming up with your 'interpretation'.

The exact wording is "The enchanted weapon floats in the air and one new, additional blade appears for each level of the spell caster"
The spell says that each blade does 1d6 MD, Double in Buzzsaw attack.
Thats the wording of the spell.
It also states thats for turning a ordinary knife or sword into a magic weapon.
No where does it say it cant be used on any other bladed weapon instead.

Now the Deathbringer sword abilities state "Spinning Blades, Self"

Now heres where the interpretation confusion comes in. Does a Magical Sword inflict its normal damage or is its 1d6x10 MD completely reduced to only 1d6 md?
Now the confusion ensues because each blade is a additional copy so would it temporarily copy the Deathbringers form and damage or would it create visual replicas that only do 1d6 MD?

If you look at my list of interpretations I list all that I can figure how to handle the lack of information to interpret the action of using Spinning Blades on a Magical Blade. I do not list just one "interpretation" I try to give as many options.

I see where your confusion is, but it's entirely in a word that isn't in the description. It doesn't create 'copies' it creates additional magical blades as per the spinning blade spell.

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