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I finally got a copy!!! I was at a place I call "The Everything Store" (because I don't read Kanjii and they really do have a bit of everything) in Chinatown in Denver yesterday, and they had a copy of Macross Zero on the shelf for $17.50. Needless to say, I snagged it as soon as I saw it.

Macross Zero shows a bit of Roy Fokker's past and personality, has great mecha battles (as well as one impressive straight up conventional fighter dog-fight) with several interesting new designs, a fairly accurate look at what happened/is happening to native peoples in the islands of the pacific, and ties in directly to events in Macross:DYRL and Macross 7.
It is well worth at least one viewing, if not more.

Macross 7? What is that?

And Darkmax, I thoroughly enjoyed it...especially some of the subtitles, which I can't repeat here, but I will say that they are highly amusing with some of the errors that are made.

Rayven wrote:Macross 7? What is that?

And Darkmax, I thoroughly enjoyed it...especially some of the subtitles, which I can't repeat here, but I will say that they are highly amusing with some of the errors that are made.

Macross 7 is a TV seise that follows the first contact between the Varauta and the 37th long range colony fleet run by Max Jenius (Captain) and Milia Jenius (Mayor & 2nd in command). Timeline wise its takes place five years after Macross Plus.
http://macross.anime.net//story/chronol ... index.html

As for L:DYR, the way it fits into the Macross timeline is that it is a Theatrical Production (ie: movie) of the origanl trek of the Macross across the soler system. In M7 Basara and Mylene Jenius (yes M&M J's 7th daughter) star in a remake of L:DYR.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Rayven wrote:Macross 7? What is that?

And Darkmax, I thoroughly enjoyed it...especially some of the subtitles, which I can't repeat here, but I will say that they are highly amusing with some of the errors that are made.

Macross 7 is a TV seise that follows the first contact between the Varauta and the 37th long range colony fleet run by Max Jenius (Captain) and Milia Jenius (Mayor & 2nd in command). Timeline wise its takes place five years after Macross Plus.
http://macross.anime.net//story/chronol ... index.html

As for L:DYR, the way it fits into the Macross timeline is that it is a Theatrical Production (ie: movie) of the origanl trek of the Macross across the soler system. In M7 Basara and Mylene Jenius (yes M&M J's 7th daughter) star in a remake of L:DYR.

Is Macross 7 available domestically? I have been looking for DYRL for a while with no luck, but haven't heard of M7 before.

Rayven wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Rayven wrote:Macross 7? What is that?

And Darkmax, I thoroughly enjoyed it...especially some of the subtitles, which I can't repeat here, but I will say that they are highly amusing with some of the errors that are made.

Macross 7 is a TV seise that follows the first contact between the Varauta and the 37th long range colony fleet run by Max Jenius (Captain) and Milia Jenius (Mayor & 2nd in command). Timeline wise its takes place five years after Macross Plus.
http://macross.anime.net//story/chronol ... index.html

As for L:DYR, the way it fits into the Macross timeline is that it is a Theatrical Production (ie: movie) of the origanl trek of the Macross across the soler system. In M7 Basara and Mylene Jenius (yes M&M J's 7th daughter) star in a remake of L:DYR.

Is Macross 7 available domestically? I have been looking for DYRL for a while with no luck, but haven't heard of M7 before.

No, Macross 7 has not been licensed. The fansubs still can be found online along with Macross Zero which probally has better subs then the version you got.

Shawn Merrow wrote:

Rayven wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Rayven wrote:Macross 7? What is that?

And Darkmax, I thoroughly enjoyed it...especially some of the subtitles, which I can't repeat here, but I will say that they are highly amusing with some of the errors that are made.

Macross 7 is a TV seise that follows the first contact between the Varauta and the 37th long range colony fleet run by Max Jenius (Captain) and Milia Jenius (Mayor & 2nd in command). Timeline wise its takes place five years after Macross Plus.
http://macross.anime.net//story/chronol ... index.html

As for L:DYR, the way it fits into the Macross timeline is that it is a Theatrical Production (ie: movie) of the origanl trek of the Macross across the soler system. In M7 Basara and Mylene Jenius (yes M&M J's 7th daughter) star in a remake of L:DYR.

Is Macross 7 available domestically? I have been looking for DYRL for a while with no luck, but haven't heard of M7 before.

No, Macross 7 has not been licensed. The fansubs still can be found online along with Macross Zero which probally has better subs then the version you got.

I'm happy with the ZERO that I got...the subs are accurate (according to a Japanese speaking friend of mine), they just have those subtle spelling errors that make me chuckle.

Darkmax wrote:that's not that bad... I've watched anime with subs that took the meaning literally.... That sucked... fortunately they usually come with Chinese sub as well.

Yeah, well, one of the subs in ZERO said "Jus tlike in the ASS, everything is normal again." We couldn't stop laughing for about 10 minutes.

Darkmax wrote:And no, Macross Zero does not tie into DYRL, since it is a fictitious movie about the on-going romance of the main characters as according to the survivors point of view.

If you want to know humanity's link to the protoculture, thus explaining why the Mayan legends in Macross Zero seemed to allude to genetics and why the Mayan priestess had an intimite link with a protoculture artifact, as well as why Zentradi and Humans are genetically compatible, it is explained in DYRL.
If you want to see the first instance of ancient underwater protoculture ruins (something which later appeared in Macross 7, and is part of the plot in Macross Zero), watch DYRL.
If you want to see the origin of many of the updated visuals now cannon in Macross, watch DYRL.

Saying DYRL isn't tied to anything is silly, since DYRL is as tied to everything as the original series.

Darkmax wrote:Sgt Angy, please get your facts right before posting.

My facts are very straight. And it's Anjay.

Darkmax wrote:How is DYRL directly involved in Macross story, or RT? It is no more than a movie in continuum of either series.

DYRL has nothing to do with Robotech, and has never had anything to do with Robotech. But this thread isn't about and has never been about Robotech.
As for Macross, the concepts and visuals from DYRL have become an integral part of the Macross universe and continuity. The fact that the movie itself "exists" within the Macross universe is irrelevant to it's real-world impact on Macross.

Darkmax wrote:And, we are talking about Macross Zero, it has nothing to do with Robotech.

Gee, you think? That must be why I wasn't talking about Robotech.

Darkmax wrote:The underwater ruins in DYRL was not directly (or expressly) mentioned to be link to that in Macross 7.

They dont have to be. The concept was created for DYRL; it was reused in Macross 7 and Macross Zero. Just because the events of DYRL didn't occur in "real life" in the universe Macross 7 occurs doesn't change the fact that the concept comes from DYRL in the real world. It is, if you will, a conceptual link in the themes of the two different animations.
By the same token, it was in DYRL that the reason for the simularities between Zentradi and humans first explained, as well as humanity's link to the protoculture. Both of these explanations are Macross cannon, and integral to the sequels.
Then there's the appearance of Exedore in Macross 7, which is wildly different from the original SDF:Macross but identical to his appearance in DYRL.

Darkmax wrote:The reason why many of the things in DYRL are canon in RT is because its status wasn't resolve fast enough when it was released. You don't see those tech in Macross Plus.

Nothing from DYRL is cannon in Robotech, since DYRL was never integrated into Robotech.
As for Macross Plus, it's the most loosely linked to any of the other Macross's, not just DYRL. But visual elements, like the uniforms, in Macross sequels are generally based on those in DYRL, Macross Plus included. And as I said above, the reason half-human/half-Zentradi children are possible is explained in DYRL; I'd say that's pretty important to Guld.

Like it or not, while the specific sequence of events that take place in DYRL arent the canon course of events, the themes and concepts of DYRL are deeply tied in to the mythos of Macross. My prior post stands: If you want to know the themes and concepts behind what's going on in M7 and M Zero, their origins are in DYRL.

Shawn Merrow wrote:
No, Macross 7 has not been licensed. The fansubs still can be found online along with Macross Zero which probally has better subs then the version you got.

Youtube.....

>.> <.<

While M7 is in the MAcross series of shows/games/etc...I wouldn't call it a direct sequale to the original macross series. None of the animaded srise can be called a directe sequal becasue of the many Macross Games that fall into the timeline.

Darkmax wrote:that's precisely what I have said from the start......

Same here. I'm well aware of the current continuity status of DYRL. That doesn't change the influence it's had over Macross sequels.

Darkmax wrote:Yes, that's the implications you have given me.

How? I hadn't mentioned Robotech, referred to anything the way it is in Robotech, and mentioned only Macross animation, namely DYRL, M7, and M Zero.

Darkmax wrote:Macross Zero was made speciafically to link the non-magic stuffs of the original Macross series to the all-monster stuffs in Macross 7.

Macross 7 is hardly "all-monster stuff". But I agree that Macross Zero ties in the Protodevln, and to a smaller degree spiritia, of Macross 7 to earlier Macross.
It also includes a protoculture artifact beneath the sea, hints at protoculture involvement in human evolution, and the compatibility of protoculture creations and humanity. All that comes from, and is in, DYRL!
To say that DYRL is not tied in is ridiculous.

Darkmax wrote:Also the ruins were never mentioned in the original Macross, only in DYRL... and when they found it in Macross 7 it was on an alien planet.

Seeing as how I keep saying that the concept of undersea protoculture ruins comes from DYRL, I dont see the point of you stating it wasn't in the original series. Of course it wasn't in the original series: it originated in DYRL (as I keep saying), and the concept of undersea ruins was reused in Macross 7, then reused again for the protoculture artifact in Macross Zero. Thats a common link that started in DYRL binding those three Macross's together.
As for the location of the protoculture ruins, the protoculture ruled the galaxy unopposed by any but themselves. I'm sure there are protoculture ruins on myriad planets. Doesn't change the fact that the concept (protoculture knowledge hidden away under the sea to preserve it during the war which destroyed the protoculture) is the same.

Darkmax wrote:And correction, it was in DYRL that the concept of a link between the two races was suggested. There was no mention of it in Macross plus which comes between Macross and DYRL, and Macross 7.

That's not a correction. I've said DYRL holds the reason why human and Zentradi are compatible, and humanity's link with the protoculture.
I will correct you however; it wasn't suggested there was a link between the two races. The protoculture computer presented that link as fact, and that link is indeed fact. Macross canon coming from DYRL and presented again in both Macross 7 and Macross Zero. Linking the three series together.
Macross Plus is irrelavent for this topic, although the visual stylings (most notably and easily seen in the uniforms) that DYRL made cannon are there. Macross Plus doesn't deal with the protoculture nor the origin of humanity or the Zentradi. DYRL, M7, and M Zero (the three series I keep saying are linked), do.

Darkmax wrote:I didn't thought he looks older but still recognizable as "Exedore".

Not a chance. In Macross 7, Exedore is bright green with a huge, hairless cranium that resembles an enlarged brain, and has tentacles for arms and fingers. He also wears an almost robe-like uniform. The facial features are relatively simular, but those distiguishing characteristics are wildly different from how he appeared in SDF:Macross. However, that is his exact appearance, down to the uniform, in DYRL, which links it once again with Macross 7. Its not hard to find pictures online if you'd care to look.

Darkmax wrote:Actually Macross Plus is the direct sequel to the original series. It is the closest to the original concept. Macross 7 was seen as quite a departure from the original story until Macross Zero was made to "mend" the broken link between the series.

Macross Plus is the closest to what original concept? SDF:Macross wasn't some single concept, it had many concepts.
Macross 7 was a departure, and thank goodness; who wants to watch the same story over and over? But it took concepts already present in Macross (artificially created race, the power of music, transforming mecha) and used them in new ways; it didn't come out of nowhere. And as I have shown, concepts already present in Macross, introduced by DYRL, are there to tie it in. Macross Zero brought it all full circle by reintroducing things from the original SDF:Macross and combining them with things in both DYRL and M7.

Darkmax wrote:You are taking DYRL far too seriously. If so you should perhaps look into Flashback 2012.

Considering how many core aspects of Macross are introduced in DYRL, perhaps you should consider the fact that you're taking its contribution too lightly.
Not sure what you're trying to imply with Flashback 2012, especially since all the events we see in it are canon and its the last appearance in animation of Misa, Hikaru, and Minmay. However, over the last decade and a half since I first saw it I've seen it quite a few times, thank you.

Darkmax wrote:BTW, what sources are you quoting from?

DYRL, Macross 7, Macross Zero, and the Macross Compendium. How about you?

Darkmax wrote:If anything in influences, it is Macross 7, but in a very minimal way. Still it is a movie in a series. Which is why it got so many fans confused initially.

When DYRL was made and came out, it wasn't some "movie in a series". It was the theatrical version of Macross; a different version of the same story. As late as 1995 (after Macross Plus had already come out and M7 was in production), Kawamori stuck by DYRL, saying in an interview with Animerica magazine:

Shoji Kawamori wrote:Consider real histroy. Many different stories have been created based on the same historical facts, haven't they? For example, there are many stories about World War II. It's the same thing with Macross. The real Macross is out there, somewhere. If I tell the story in the length of a TV series, it looks one way, and if I tell it as a movie-length story, it's organized another way.

That is why people put so much stock in DYRL, because it wasn't some little throwaway side-story; in many ways it still isn't, because important Macross continuity comes from DYRL. The fact that it was made a movie within the series is a testament to the importance the creators have for DYRL, not a way for them to dismiss it. IF they had wanted to do that, they could have relegated it to "parallel world" story with no impact on continuity the way they did to Macross II.

Darkmax wrote:

Sgt Anjay wrote:How? I hadn't mentioned Robotech, referred to anything the way it is in Robotech, and mentioned only Macross animation, namely DYRL, M7, and M Zero.

Actually you did. Just go back to the initial reply you gave me.

It would be too easy for you to go to that post and quote where I did. Good luck, though, because I never did. You're seeing things that aren't there.

Darkmax wrote:Remember that Macross 7 was built about a decade after the original series. Kawamori wanted to expand on ideas developed in DYRL, most fans didn't like it.

Most fans didn't like it? You know, people say that all the time, and yet Macross 7 was hugely popular: it ran 49 episodes (thats longer than the original series, which only had 36), had several succesful soundtracks including a "best hits" album, had a three episode OVA, had a theatrical release that was a double feature with Macross Plus in Japan, then a sequel OVA series (Macross 7 Dynamite), and its concepts were tied in even closer with the original series via Macross Zero rather than abandoned.

Darkmax wrote:it was a concept developed for a movie in the continuum of the series!

It was a concept developed for the movie version of SDF:Macross. DYRL did not become a movie within the series until a decade later when further sequels began to come out, and they did that to keep it as part of Macross lore, not discredit it (as my above quote from Shoji Kawamori demonstrates). You are so hung up on DYRL's current status within Macross continuity, either its blinding you or you haven't bothered to look at the context of the situation.

Darkmax wrote:As for those things you mentioned were canon, let me tell you this: the reason why so many design factors were changed in DYRL is because of budget. The original series had very low budget. It wasn't until it became a success that a bigger budget was given to them to make the movie, thus they can afford better renditions of techs.

Oh, visually? Yeah, many designs were improved because of DYRL's higher budget. But those designs were kept in video games, manga, and even in Macross 7, which also only had a tv series budget. Fact is, the designs from DYRL became cannon; why they were developed for DYRL isn't the point.

Darkmax wrote:You know, I really don't want to argue this with you, 'cos I'm not among the original design team. Perhaps I'm wrong. I just don't see a point in arguing about a movie in an anime.

Because DYRL is much more than that, and always has been.

Darkmax wrote:You're right, it was also, imho, the way of telling those people who made Macross II, off.
He has a habit of not endorsing things derived from his works, but refusing to admit mistakes from his own, namely DYRL.
Fans were relatively confused about the substantial difference between the TV series and DYRL.
DYRL was made in 1985 (if I remember correctly).

How was DYRL a mistake, exactly? I like the fact that you consider yourself a higher authority than Shoji Kawamori, now that I posted a quote from him which backs my position.
But DYRL was substantially different from the tv series, indeed. A movie adaptation of a tv series will be since, you know, its a movie and not a tv series. Macross is hardly alone in that regard. Many tv series have movie adaptations that are substantially different.
Just like movie adaptations of books are going to be different than the book. Or movie adaptations of a comic will be different than the comic. That's the nature of the beast.
And until a decade later when further Macross sequels by Kawamori and crew came out did they specify which continuity would be the continuity; before that, it wasn't so much confusion as there was no official word so they had nothing to go on, and the movie being as high quality and popular as it was, many people sided with it rather than the tv series. Imagine that.

Darkmax wrote:so you edited your post.

You either made a mistake and are stubbornly sticking to it, or you are intentionally lying to make it seem like I cant tell Macross from Robotech. And now that I've called you on it, I'm a liar and falsifying posts? Get real. You may not know me very well, but after over a decade of posting on quite a few RT message boards that's the first time anyone's had the gall to accuse me of something like that. Several others who post here have known me on those boards and can verifty.
Its quite notable that in no post of yours have you quoted me saying anything which backs you up, even in the post of yours where you first make the accusation that I'm clueless about Robotech and Macross. If I said it, why didn't you quote it then, when I hadn't had cause or reason to edit it? Because its not there, thats why.
By the way, on these message boards it says on a post when a post is edited (time/date stamp)....did I edit that post after you accused me of confusing Robotech and Macross? I didn't, did I? Sorry, no dice.

Darkmax wrote:Err... where was it popular? America?.... The Japanese didn't even bring its rating up. It was made for the fans but the fans.... well.... found it to be just ok. Dynamite was even worse.

If Macross 7 had had lousy ratings it would have been canceled way before 49 episodes, especially since a season is only 13 episodes (so yes, Macross 7 ran for about four seasons; much longer than most anime, including the original SDF:Macross series). If the soundtracks hadn't been popular, they wouldn't have released single after single, album after album, and they certainly wouldn't have released a "best hits" album. Would there have been not one, but two live concerts by the band and voice actors? Of course not. If fans didn't like Macross 7, they wouldn't have made a manga series. If Macross 7 hadn't been popular, they wouldn't have released the 3-episode OVAs; it would have been a waste of money. If Macross 7 hadn't been popular, they wouldn't have made a theatrical release as a double feature with Macross Plus; it would have hurt Macross Plus's box office. If Macross 7 hadn't been popular, and the ovas hadn't been popular, and the theatrical release hadn't been popular, and the soundtracks hadnt been popular, and the concerts had been flops (beats me why they would have had a second concert if the first one had failed), they surely, surely, would not have made a sequel OVA series with high production values. But they did make one; Macross 7 Dynamite. They even left the ending of Dynamite open, so the story of Macross 7 could continue.
Lastly, if all of those endeavors had really been failures, would they have included the story elements that Macross 7 introduced in Macross Zero, tying it to the original series? Of course not, that would be insanity. But they did include them.
So the reality of the situation seems to contradict statements that Macross 7 failed. What evidence do you have to the contrary?

Darkmax wrote:Looks like you're the one who is hung up on it being what it is not.

Really? Because its a clear fact that aspects from DYRL have become Macross canon. The quote from Shoji Kawamori lends credence to DYRL being valid. How exactly am I mistaken?

Darkmax wrote:Can't tell you about the games cause I'm no fan of console games.

Well, you dont have to tell me, since I already know. If you still think I'm a liar, though, you can look up visuals and screenshots of video games easily enough online.

Darkmax wrote:Sigh... say whatever you will. I maintain my opinion as with many other sites and fans sites.

Go ahead. I'll stick to reality I can point to and demonstrate over fanboy opinions.

I generally dont post something as fact unless it is to the best of my knowledge; I'm not afriad of pointing out when something I say is opinion.
As I've posted, I've listed where those facts come from.
I pointed out concepts that originated in DYRL, and are now canon used in Macross 7 and Macross Zero. Hence my statements that they're all linked.
I posted a quote from an interview with Kawamori Shoji about his opinion on the differences between the original series and DYRL, showing he doesnt believe DYRL should just be discounted. This supports both that DYRL is more than just "a movie in the series", and that DYRL continues to be linked to Macross.
And so far as Macross 7 is concerned, its inconcievable that a series that lasts longer than most animes, including the original series, got bad ratings; more than just hardcore Macross fans would need to watch for the show to have survived, otherwise quite a few shows in many places would've never been canceled. Its simularly hard to believe that a series without fan support would have been such a merchandising success, as the many products it put out prove, and would have had a live concert that was succesful enough to spawn a second one. And a series with bad ratings and low fan support really just wouldn't have had a theatrical release, OVAs, several manga series, and a sequel OVA series. So talking about how unsupported and unsuccesful Macross 7 was flies in the face of common sense.

By the way, if you want to know what is canon, including video games and such, simply look in
The Macross Compendium. You can be assured everything in the site is canon (the references showing this and the site's endorsement are on the site) and the video games, radio dramas, and other side stories and merchandise which count as canon are listed on the story timeline.

Oh really. Because everything listed on the site has it's reference listed with the source it came from and I dont ever recall seeing "my opinion". The site is endorsed by Bandai visual and Manga Entertainment, Inc. Egan Loo has met with and talked with Kawamori Shoji.
Could you perhaps provide an example of something there that is opinion?

Guys:
Darkmax, I think you can put this argument in the loss column. But in the interest of fairness, both of you should drop it. You aren't getting anywhere or doing anything but having this thread rocket towards being Locked. So chill, both of you, and back away from your keyboards.

Linwood

Sgt Anjay wrote:Macross Zero shows a bit of Roy Fokker's past and personality, has great mecha battles (as well as one impressive straight up conventional fighter dog-fight) with several interesting new designs, a fairly accurate look at what happened/is happening to native peoples in the islands of the pacific, and ties in directly to events in Macross:DYRL and Macross 7.
It is well worth at least one viewing, if not more.

I have to agree with this. Definately worth watching a couple of times. While the air battles were pretty cool, I loved watching the Destroids fight in an environment more suited to them. I must say I loved the idea of the MAC I with arms. Now imagine if it could use those things in combat.