Forums of the Megaverse®

-If a character knew something so powerful (Rune Magic, Power Words, Apocalypse Magic, ect.) could it be tortured out of them.

-Now the situation is this, my brother and I (both of us are highly skilled GM's and Players)One of our characters (scrupulous Alignment but interested in learning all mystic art regardless of orentaion) was given the chance to Apocalypse Magic, and has the want and ability. One of us thinks this would warrant a drop in alignment(because it could fall the the hands of others through torture or possibly other means)while the other disagrees

-Sorry to push our personal dilemma on the forums, but we don't want to hear its the GM's decision we are looking more along the lines of a yes or no or even some type of optional rules

Yes, things can be tortured out of a person.

No, it doesn't make a person evil to know something bad that can be tortured out of them.

I'd say it's actually the application of certain arts, rather than the knowledge of them, that is where the evil lies. An academic understanding of mass murder doesn't make one a murderer. Putting that knowledge to use, however, does.

Glad to hear that you're interested in using Apocalypse Magic! That's one of my articles (Rifter 33)

Scrud wrote:
-Now the situation is this, my brother and I (both of us are highly skilled GM's and Players)

now before we can get to the answer for your question, what level are you as a player and GM, because this question should be easily answerable to a level 7 player/GM and above, even taking into account distraction penalties and playing while running(for GM/players). And remember being a 4th level player and 3rd level GM doesn't equal 7th, since your most likely human and humans use the dual-class rules, from ad&d.

dungeon masters dont have levels.

You're only evil if you don't apologize after torturing someone, but you have to be sincere about it

sawg138 wrote:

GreenGhost wrote:You're only evil if you don't apologize after torturing someone, but you have to be sincere about it

Or a reach around.

no way man

My take on it is why has the character learned the knowledge. If it was a pure scholarly research bit, then no alignment change need apply. If it was to be used as a bargaining chip ("Oh, they'll give me what I want, or I'll cast a spell on their town") then alignment change would apply, regardless of whether it was actually used.

Concerning the risk of "torture", well, many high-level mages know some really, really nasty spells. Crimson Wall of Lictalon, Transformation, Ice Storm, Curse of Darkness, and Summon Vampires are just a few of the spells I wouldn't want to see a bad guy use against a village. However, there's nothing that says anyone who simply learns the spells are automatically evil.

And J Lionheart, after reading that Rifter article, the only thought that went through my mind is that you are one sick puppy (pun intended).

Natalya wrote:And J Lionheart, after reading that Rifter article, the only thought that went through my mind is that you are one sick puppy (pun intended).

::wags his tail::

Haha. Seriously though, did I mention that I enjoy playing epic style games? Hopefully you enjoyed it, in between freak-out-ness

Indeed. Alignment in PB is an absolute thing, and is based primarily on intentions. While the road to hell may be paved with them, you'll very rarely be in a situation where something will affect your alignment if your intention was genuinely good.

Now then, you might go insane from the trauma of facing the consequences of your well-intentioned but poorly-resulting actions, but you'll be a good insane, rather than an evil insane.

J. Lionheart wrote:

Natalya wrote:And J Lionheart, after reading that Rifter article, the only thought that went through my mind is that you are one sick puppy (pun intended).

::wags his tail::

Haha. Seriously though, did I mention that I enjoy playing epic style games? Hopefully you enjoyed it, in between freak-out-ness

I did. I'm thinking they would be good for fitting into the history of a place in the game I'm running. But there's no way in the toasty place that I'm going to let one of the PCs get their hands on it.

Natalya wrote:I did. I'm thinking they would be good for fitting into the history of a place in the game I'm running. But there's no way in the toasty place that I'm going to let one of the PCs get their hands on it.

Haha, excellent. That's kinda what I had in mind when I wrote 'em.

When/if you use it that way, I'd love to hear the context you decide upon. Drop me a PM

sawg138 wrote:

GreenGhost wrote:You're only evil if you don't apologize after torturing someone, but you have to be sincere about it

Or a reach around.

Ewww, now that is evil. Pealing off flesh victim screems, oh wait her you go, tug tug tug, then back to the pealing of flesh.

J. Lionheart wrote:Yes, things can be tortured out of a person.

No, it doesn't make a person evil to know something bad that can be tortured out of them.

I'd say it's actually the application of certain arts, rather than the knowledge of them, that is where the evil lies. An academic understanding of mass murder doesn't make one a murderer. Putting that knowledge to use, however, does.

Glad to hear that you're interested in using Apocalypse Magic! That's one of my articles (Rifter 33)

All with Lionheart here, and Apocalypse Magic was the reason I bought that rifter.