Bleeding While Invisible

[GreenGhost]

When fighting something that has the ability to become invisible are the characters able to see the blood as it drips or pours from the invisible creature? I would think that the blood still on the creature (i.e. soaking through clothing or armor) would still be invisible, but once it drips or pour away from the body it would become visible (like following a blood trail of an invisible creature or it pooling near their feet).

What does everyone think about this?

[Reddenedone]

My knee jerk answer to this question would be: The blood is visible once it leaves the invisible person's invisibility range (once it hits the floor... gets smeared on a wall... coughed out, etc)

[GreenGhost]

Thanks- that's what I was thinking

[drewkitty ~..~]

Once the blood is outside the invisible person it is visible.

[The Dark Elf]

yeh once it leaks onto the person invisible you can see it. So it would appear drippin in "mid air"

[Veknironth]

Well, this brings up a number of other questions. If someone has an item in their possession when the spell takes effect, it will be invisible. However, what happens if they lay that item down? I presume it would become visible, if you go by the visible blood theory. Things are only invisible while part of what was originally made invisible. So, if you are invisible and throw a dagger or something at someone, the dagger would be visible as soon as it left the person's hand.

What about if someone picks up an item that is visible while invisible? Does it remain visible? I say it does. Also, if you go by the above ruling that something out of the grasp of the invisible person becomes invisible, even if you set something down then pick it up later, it will be visible once you pick it back up. Anyone feel differently?

I guess to sum up my answer, anything that the person has when the spell takes effect is invisible, but nce it is out of their control it becomes visible again. This means items, blood, sweat, urine, hair, clothing, whatever.

-Vek
"Anyone see that coming?"

[Yisterwald]

With you on all points, Vek.

[verdilak]

Well, this brings up a number of other questions. If someone has an item in their possession when the spell takes effect, it will be invisible. However, what happens if they lay that item down? I presume it would become visible, if you go by the visible blood theory. Things are only invisible while part of what was originally made invisible. So, if you are invisible and throw a dagger or something at someone, the dagger would be visible as soon as it left the person's hand.

What about if someone picks up an item that is visible while invisible? Does it remain visible? I say it does. Also, if you go by the above ruling that something out of the grasp of the invisible person becomes invisible, even if you set something down then pick it up later, it will be visible once you pick it back up. Anyone feel differently?

I guess to sum up my answer, anything that the person has when the spell takes effect is invisible, but nce it is out of their control it becomes visible again. This means items, blood, sweat, urine, hair, clothing, whatever.

-Vek
"Anyone see that coming?"

If you are invisible and you pick up something, the something that you picked up stays visible UNLESS you put it in a pocket, inside your shirt, ect.

[J. Lionheart]

Well, this brings up a number of other questions. If someone has an item in their possession when the spell takes effect, it will be invisible. However, what happens if they lay that item down? I presume it would become visible, if you go by the visible blood theory. Things are only invisible while part of what was originally made invisible. So, if you are invisible and throw a dagger or something at someone, the dagger would be visible as soon as it left the person's hand.

Check

What about if someone picks up an item that is visible while invisible? Does it remain visible? I say it does. Also, if you go by the above ruling that something out of the grasp of the invisible person becomes invisible, even if you set something down then pick it up later, it will be visible once you pick it back up. Anyone feel differently?

Check

I guess to sum up my answer, anything that the person has when the spell takes effect is invisible, but nce it is out of their control it becomes visible again. This means items, blood, sweat, urine, hair, clothing, whatever.

Check

Three check marks. I agree with you, all around.

Verdilak does make a valid point as well, though, that an item picked up, while it would remain visible, would be effectively invisible if placed in a pocket or wrapped up sufficiently to block all sightlines to it.

[verdilak]

Verdilak does make a valid point as well, though, that an item picked up, while it would remain visible, would be effectively invisible if placed in a pocket or wrapped up sufficiently to block all sightlines to it.

[Soldier of Od]

I disagree with that last point. An object would not become invisible, or effectively invisible, just because you put it in a pocket or similar. You and your pocket are invisible, so there is no reason to believe that someone can not see through the pocket to the object inside, any more than if you picked up a larger object, the parts that are 'covered' by your hand would become invisible, or a coin or small object 'disappearing' if you held it in a clenched fist. The handle of a sword wouldn't disappear if you picked it up to fight. There is no way that you can affect an object to become invisible unless you cast invisibility again.

On the first topic: I read something recently, but I can't remember which book it was in, that had a specific addition that said something on the lines of "Note: if cut, only the blood is visible" or similar. I would take that to mean that the blood seeping from a would or staining/dripping down the clothes would be visible, even if it had not yet left contact with the invisible person. But I can't remember where it was. Bugger.

Soldier of Od.

[Library Ogre]

It depends on how the invisibility works.

If it works by making you transparent (completely, so you don't even bend light funny as you move), then yes, it's silly that putting something in your pocket would make it invisible.

But what if it bent light away from you, a nanometer away from your aura? Picking something up doesn't make it part of your aura, or encase it therein... it might have odd gaps, but it would still be mostly whole to viewers. Putting it in your pocket, however, would put it entirely within that warping field, making it work just fine.

[Soldier of Od]

I would say that the spell works by Magic. There's no need to worry about why. Some kind of bending light explanation might be necessary in a futuristic hi-tech sci-fi setting invisibility machine, but in PF it's just magic. If it made things invisible if brought within it's range of effect I would say that would be more of an 'invisible aura' or 'globe of invisibility' kind of spell. The description just says that "any object picked up after the character becomes invisible remains visible". It doesn't say "unless placed in a pocket". I'd say that was cut and dry.

And I found the bit about blood showing. It's under the spell description. I guess it's easy to say that this would probably apply to creatures that can naturally turn invisible, too.

[Veknironth]

Well, I don't think NExx is worried about the physics per se. What I think he's saying is that depending on how the magic makes you invisible, it will affect the item in the pocket differently. If the magic makes it so that people are basically seeing THROUGH you, then the object in your pocket will be visible since it wasn't affected by the original spell. Essentially, people can see through your clothes and into your pockets where any newly placed items might be. The person essentially becomes like a clear window. It's solied, you can see through it, but anything placed on it, behind it, or in it will still be visible.

The other way is that the light bends around the person and you end up seeing what's behind him as if he weren't there. In that case, anything inside the pocket would also be invisible, assuming no one had a line of sight on the item. This would be like someone having on dark clothing in a dark room and hiding a light in his pocket. You would lose sight of the object, but it's still visible - it's just that your view of it is blocked.

I don't know if Palladium has ever said anything about how it works, so I guess it's just up to the individual campaign to decide on that. Personally, I like the transparent version better since it somewhat limits what is an already incredibly powerful spell.

-Vek
"MY logic is transparent."

[Soldier of Od]

Yeah, I realise that it's not really necessary to get into the physics behind it. It just think that if it did bend light, or create an aura or something similar, so that you can hide stuff in your coat and make it invisible too, then that would have been mentioned in the spell description. It does say that picked up objects remain visible. So I'd go with the transparent theory also.

[Guest]

No, it's not necessary to get into the physics, however, it IS necessary to get into the magic*. There are two basic types of magical invisibility, simple and superior, both cover well (with the possible exception of blood for Invisibility Superior) what is and is not invisible.

Point 1: Yes Blood is visible for Invisibility: Simple, as was pointed out, there's a note to that effect under the spell description. Whether or not the blood drops off the character is irrelevant. Whether or not it's still invisible on the body of a character who used Invisibility Superior would be open to some debate. Personally, I'd say no until it dropped off the character, but that's just because Invisibility Superior needs some help actually being supeior.

Point 2: If an item that was initially invisible when the spell was cast, if dropped, it becomes visible, as per both spell descriptions.

Point 3: A picked up visible object remains visible unless "tucked under invisible garments" when using Invisibility: Superior, however, there is no such note under Invisibility: Simple, again, leaving it open to interpretation on whether or not wrapping the object in invisible garments would render the visible object invisible (again, based on the differences in spells, I wouldn't consider this likely).

Point 4: Here's the real fun part, magic items granting invisibility. What version of the spell do they fall under, when it's not specifically stated (such as the Cloak of Invisibility, which has it's own handling of which things are invisible)?

*Yes, I'm only covering magical invisibility as psionic invisibility (if used) and chi zoshiki (if allowed) work on an entirely different principle, rending all of the quesitons moot. As for the natural ability or supernatural ability to turn invisible, based on how See the Invisible is described as working, I would say that the power is equivalent to Invisibility: Simple.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Well, is the spell for all organic parts of the character? If so, then the invisibility would remain for the length of the spell on the blood as well, with people able to step in it and track it all over the place. Where does it say this power has a radius of effect? Touching an item brings the item within the character's aura, but is there a bio-energy around blood? Maybe leave it invisible until it cools.