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I'm interested. I love the Splicers setting, but there are certain aspects of it that really get on my nerves for various reasons. It'd be cool to at least write up some alternate rules and info to help smooth out inconsistencies and contradictions.

I am confused. Why not discuss it here where you can get the maximum Splicer fan exposure?

Spinachcat wrote:I am confused. Why not discuss it here where you can get the maximum Splicer fan exposure?

Dark Max, can not invade the tread for one.

Polymatrix0 wrote:I want to use the palladium rpg Splicers as a skeleton for a much more detailed, logical, and balanced world.
For awhile now i've been interested in really fleshing/balancing out the Splicer-verse.

I am interested in more detail, but logic and balance mean nothing to me. If I want logic, I'll go play chess. RPGs are inherently illogical. Also every "illogical" aspect will have people who love or hate that aspect. Instead of "fixing", I suggest giving options.

For instance, some people are peeved that the book doesn't say what planet is the Splicers world. Personally, I am completely cool with this since it allows me to put it anywhere. Do I want Splicers to actually be the far future of Wormwood? Could it be Earth? I like the openness for the GM.

As for balance, you may have noticed that Splicers is a Palladium game where "balance" is far secondary to "whacky ubercool" and concepts of balance are the purview of the GM. If you really want balance, do a home conversion of Splicers to a point based RPG where everything can be tallied and weighed.

(1) The Scarecrow O.C.C. is alittle under powered considering they're roles as the secret police of the infamous librarians.

No. They are very solid. Secret policemen should not be able to take down biomecha in a 1 on 1 fight. Instead, the Scarecrow reports the Dreadguard to his Librarian and the two conspire to make the Dreadguard's life miserable from the shadows.

(2)What about computers? Bio-computation is possible even now with todays technology....Where are the F***ing bio computers(see movie:eXistenZ) ?

Cool. I like bio-computers, but also look at the human brain potential concepts you have in Dune.

(3) technojackers, why can't they have programming, mechanical, and electrical skills (jury-rigging blows)and what happens when they touch a computer aside from instantly gaining control over it (2 way BCI, virtual computer reality)?

I am not so sure about giving TJs programming, mechanical or electrical skills since their control of robots is an instinctual, not intellectual, ability.

(4) I really wish Carmen included the Bookworm OCC, seems like a core book OCC (thoes who oppose the librarians and know the history of the world...cool).

Absolutely. Maybe if the Splicers Fan Supplement project can get done as a PDF product like Rifter #0, maybe Carmen would toss in the Bookworm OCC. Speaking of that, I highly recommend that the Splicer Development Group team up with the Fan Supplement team so the PDF can be as awesome as possible.

(5)They did keep records(although guarded by the Bookworms) on paper, so at the very least the gm should know if its earth or a colony world!!! I'm thinking a now abandon/quarantined colony world. Any thoughts?

GM option. The GM should be free to decide, but I think a list of possibilities would be good to create.

(6)The main book is very poorly edited.There are a number of typos, and the book layout sucks.

Errata is good, but the layout is the layout. Hopefully the future supplements will be better.

(7)It seems like the technojackers would be a hell of alot more valuable to the resistance.

Except that they are bizarre mutants who carry death as tools.

(8)The game needs a few more basic/low powered O.C.Cs (city rat equivilant, resistance soldier/city police combo,... ect)

Yes, I would like to see more "Life Inside the House" and the OCCs of people who only stay inside and engage in the politics and issues of being part of the resistance.

(9) All other OCCs should be limited to non-consuming metabolisms.

Nope. Although your idea is realistic, it limits the player choices and thus limits their fun. A huge part of the fun of Splicers is designing different HAs so that fun should be expanded, not limited.

(10)The Host armor enhancment section needs more metabolism specific enhancements.

This is a really GREAT idea.

I'd also prefer to post to the forum instead of a Yahoo group.

Off the top of my head, here are a few of the things I feel need to be adjusted:

The Parasitic, Photosynthetic, & Thermosynthetic metabolisms either should not exist or should serve as secondary aspects of a Carnivore, Herbivore, Lithovore, Omnivore, or Vampiric Host Armor. It may be nitpicking on my part, but they just bug me(the lack of sustenance vs the ability to regenerate massive damage, create organic rockets, etc). I'd much rather see them as supplementary bio-enhancements. For example, the pilot of an Herbivore Host Armor could pay Bio-E to also make it Photosynthetic, perhaps halving its daily food requirements and eliminating its need for sleep, while giving it the standard Photosynthetic bonuses? I'll go through the book later to see if I can come up with something appropriate with reasonable Bio-E costs.

The Enhanced Physical Strength and Enhanced Speed Factor bio-enhancements have stupidly high Bio-E costs. Or the various Arm & Leg enhancements are stupidly cheap. One or the other.

10 Bio-E for +1 PS, but purchasing Elongated Arms for 10 Bio-E gives you +5 PS and another four feet of reach.

Or 10 Bio-E for +5 mph running speed, while you can get +20 mph running speed by paying 10 Bio-E for Elongated Running Legs(with the ability to run at double maximum speed for short bursts). 15 Bio-E for Hoofed Feet gives you +40 mph running speed, increased kick damage, and a dodge bonus.

Of various bio-enhancements that need repricing or rewriting, a few come to mind at the moment.

-Lazarus Glands: I can't imagine anyone wasting 80 Bio-E for this enhancement, on top of the 45 required to acquire the requisit Increased Metabolic Rate, which is itself overly expensive for the bonuses it offers and the potential drawbacks. Being able to bring your Host Armor back to life is certainly nice, but spending 125 Bio-E to be able to do so is prohibitive. 125 Bio-E spent on weapons and enhancements could have kept it alive in the first place.

-Reinforced Knuckles or Body Area: Poor wording basically says you can double the MDC of a Host Armor's head for 5 Bio-E.

-Super Light Cells: Considering what these things do, they are simply too expensive. For example, spending 52 Bio-E to purchase 4 Super Light Cells for a comparatively minor(for Splicers, anyway) damage of 1D4x10 MD is seriously wasteful. As separate weapons, they must be upgraded individually. There needs to be a certain amount of parity between the weapons. Enhancing a single Heat Cannon with the Mega upgrade costs 90 Bio-E(if you count the requisite Resistance to Heat), but nets potential damage of 2D8x10+20 MD. 63 Bio-E to Mega upgrade a Super Light Cell gets you only 2D10 MD. Not only should their price be reduced, certain bio-weapons should be considered linked(for lack of a better term), for the purpose of being upgraded. Organic Rockets, Screamer Grenades, Super Light Cells, etc, should only require a single upgrade to affect all of them the Host Armor, War Mount, etc. possesses.

-Viral Immobilizer: This is not how viruses work! I can't believe this made it through the editing process. It should be the "Fungal Immobilizer" or the "Bacterial Immobilizer" or something else.

Eh, that's enough for now.

Polymatrix0 wrote:
Ectoplasmic Bidet

(1) I'm a gardener/avid nature channel watcher, and organisms that have these non-consuming metabolisms (parasitic, photosynthetic, thermosynthetic) are usually given the proper resource (light, heat, a host), better regenerators then the majority of creatures with consuming metabolisms. However, if you feel strongly about this, then it will be added & contested on the polls.

(3) Lazarus Gland: I like this enhancement, and i wonder if your host armor had super regen, could it regrow you the pilot?

It's not so much their ability to regenerate that bothers me, it's their ability to replace destroyed body mass. For example, a Thermosynthetic armor with Super Regeneration can regenerate a destroyed arm. If it never has any sort of food intake, how does it replace the lost flesh? It's a nitpick on my part that really doesn't affect gameplay, but like I've said, it nags at me.

I like the Lazarus Gland as a concept, I just feel that the implementation is poorly done. Beyond the inflated cost(my biggest gripe), why should the option only be open to Carnivore, Herbivore, or Omnivore Host Armors? For example, it seems like a Photosynthetic Host Armor could have a seed-like equivalent to the gland that would allow it to regrow like a leaf cutting?

Let's be real about Scarecrows shall we? Everyone but Biotics, Skinjobs and Saints is at a huge disadvantage to Scarecrows based purely on how they achieve their combat prowess. Take a Dreadguard out of his Host Armor and what do you have? I can't speak for everyone else but I know Houses in my game don't allow just anyone to wear HA in civilian areas. Scarecrows don't need any further edge against Dreadguards unless you play them, and their Librarians, as simpletons and morons. There's no reason in the world for a scarecrow to ever go up against HA from it's own House and only a stupid one would challange an enemy HA to single combat.

Polymatrix0 wrote:The scarecrows/Librarians need something over the heads of the dreadguard/warlords.

They already do. They are MDC creatures who can stomp any human outside of his HA. Nobody wears their HA 24/7 so they are vulnerable at some moment. That's the scarecrows horrid threat. Also, the dreadguards friends and family probably don't even have an HA...

Also, scarecrows are the powerhouses in the social warfare of the house. They are the voice of the Librarians to the people and since all everything of importance comes out of those bio-vats, thus they have massive social and political leverage.

The politics of the Houses depend on this uncomfortable alliance between the Warlords and the Librarians and the dreadguard and the scarecrows are the proxies in their internicine subterfuge.

Polymatrix0 wrote:I think a solution for this need might be to have the scarecrow occ at a certain level get a unique form of host armor(like a promotion to elite librarian guard).

That sounds like a D20 prestige class concept where the character concept changes as they level. Maybe a Librarian Guard OCC is the better idea so the Scarecrows can scurry back to their "thugs" if they get into trouble. I'd be good with that. More OCCs the better. The plentiful OCC concept is what makes Palladium unique.

Polymatrix0 wrote:(3)Technojackers have existed since the nanoplauges appearance. These skills existed before the nanoplauge. Why wouldn't they have been past down through the centuries?

The same reason I don't know how to milk a cow, rotate crops, speak Latin or do any of the skills of my ancestors. None of these skills are part of my world.

Any skill involving the manipulation of metallic objects would fall away. TJs are supposed to be ultra-rare people - not a subculture with their own history. In fact, I bet most TJs freak out when they first discover their powers...probably by not dying after touching metal.

Now...maybe bio-electronics becomes a skill IF we create enough bio-electronic gear so it becomes useful. However, the characters already have more than enough skills. I would MUCH rather see expanded uses of current skills.

Polymatrix0 wrote:(9)Realism is what we are trying to achieve.

How do you define realism? Biotech, MDC, insane AIs as mythic goddesses are all inherently unrealistic. RPGs where one person or a small group can affect the events of the world is unrealistic. Combat done in turns is unrealistic. Any combat without the fog of war is unrealistic.

Also, are you willing to sacrifice player fun for "realism"? If so, why?

Your better goal is "setting integration" where new ideas blend into the existing setting concepts of the core book. What you create will be much more useful to existing players IF you give them stuff that blends and merges with what they already enjoy instead of altering fundamentals.

Realism and fiction do not mesh well. No matter what. Even documentary are not as realistic as you coudl imagine. Actually to espressed better a concept realism don't help that much. Rather than realism we should talk about plausibility of human(in this case referred to all species able to express an human range of emotion and logic) reactions.

Polymatrix0 wrote:Please...no more philosophical criticisms/debates on Rpgs and there inherent ability to be unrealistic, if plausibly is the word you prefer then use it. We are trying to achieve plausibility...there.After this post I will no longer respond to these point less criticisms/debates . This is a collaboration on the improvement/revision of the splicer-verse. Not a "what an RPG is and should be" debate club. I swear..this is why we have to wait on closed source developments like palladiums/slappys/the unoffical sourcebook peoples . Your so busy debating RPG philosophies and defining words, theres no time to create and collaborate.


JUST DEBATE THE LIST!!!!! DO NOT DEBATE RPG OPINION!!!!!
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just a side note:
I've decided to create a scarecrow variant instead of revising the current one. The principle behind this new crow is that it gets a unique form of host armor.Host armor thats been injected with the elixir of life. Also, i'm thinking about making the elixir of life an overall biological enhancer/accelerant with deleterious effects if not taken regularly by any bio systems .

Poly... calm down. remember one important thing... THIS IS A GAME!

Actually, this thread showcases quite nicely why there isn't already a communial effort to "correct" the "errors" in Splicers. Even amongst those of us that have problems with the setting, the issues vary wildly as do the perceived solutions.-

Underpowered Scarecrows, bio-enhancement costs, bio-enhancement availability etc that are perceived as issues by some aren't of any concern to others because they aren't seem as issues.

Oh yeah, someone mentioned that "clusters" of the same weapon should be upgraded as a group. Carmen agrees at least partially, though I'm having troubles finding where he answered a question I asked about upgrading missile launchers.

Clustering really only applies to stuff it makes sense to get a bunch of - light cells and organic missiles most notably. Im still looking for where Carmen chimed in on a previous discussion about that issue (it wasn't where I thought I remembered it being)

***edit***
Found the thread I was lookin for where Carmen chimed in on weapon upgrades for multiple rockets.

demos606 wrote:Clustering really only applies to stuff it makes sense to get a bunch of - light cells and organic missiles most notably. Im still looking for where Carmen chimed in on a previous discussion about that issue (it wasn't where I thought I remembered it being)

***edit***
Found the thread I was lookin for where Carmen chimed in on weapon upgrades for multiple rockets.

Holy crap...I never even imagined it as doubling the rockets themselves...

I just figured if clustered weapons could be upgraded together, that Ultra upgraded Organic Rockets would get the double regeneration speed.

Wow...

Yeah, was quite a surprise to most of us actually, though it was one of the few times I was happy to see authors clarification prove me wrong on an interpretation.

I've got a work in progress idea for a link between Rifts Earth & the Splicers planet. In broad strokes:

- Splicers planet is in fact a colony world.
- It exists in the far future of Rifts Earth (a couple hundred to thousands of years after 109 P.A.)
- The original colonists were actually from the assorted Orbital colonies (see MiO Mutants in Orbit)
- Original orbitals were clearly skilled in genetic engineering (mutant animals from MiO), and were fairly well stocked in a wide variety of Earth based plant & animal genetic samples.
- Due to lack of long term living space requirements for the various colonies, coupled with generational population expansion, the orbital colonies realized that they would run out of usable, habitable space within 2 - 3 generations.
- The colonies & Moon Base at some point start receiving star system telemetry from a previously lost deep space probe, (MiO indicates that pre-cataclysm Earth sent out dozens of probes into deep space in all directions).
- The probe reveals a new Earth like planet in a previously unknown, but relatively close star system. (Still would take hundreds of years to reach using standard sub-light drives known to the orbital colonies)
- After much debate, a joint effort is begun to use a large asteroid & create a generational ship. An advanced AI, based on A.R.C.H.I.E & S.C.A.R.A.B technology (Rifter, can't remember which one) is designed to command the mission during its long journey. This AI also serves as the eventual basis for N.E.X.U.S.
- Most of new colonists are actually frozen embreyos of human, animal, & plant stocks. Only a small number of adult colonists are placed in stasis for the long journey. M.O.N.I.T.O.R. is designed to awaken the new colonists, & help educate the new baby colonists about their origins in safe shipboard environment 20 years before the ship arrives at its destination.
- Due to spaceborne radiation, & localized space phenomena, much of M.O.N.I.T.O.R.'s historical database is damaged. Only the first generation of adult colonists even remember being from Earth, eventually even this knowledge is lost.
- Hundreds of years pass, & Splicers world becomes as it is now.

Far away into the stars, the original orbital colonies themselves have decayed in their orbits, & burned up into Earth's atmosphere. The few humans that survive on the Earth's surface, are the thralls of dozens of Demon lords, & Alien Intelligences, so there is no help that can come from the original homeworld.

NOTE: I'm considering putting together a Rifter article around this idea. Applications of the concept would include playing in MiO campaign either for or against the deep space colony plan, as well as sabotage, subterfuge, engineering & mining challenges etc. This could also allow for a Space 1999 style campaign as the small human / mutant animal crew of the generational ship, as it travels to its far off destination (& the possibility of encountering new alien species - & getting new genetic information from them). And finally, some Technojackers, & Bookworms might learn that the original ark is still in orbit. The possibility of pure Earth strain genetic stocks would make a tempting target. N.E.X.U.S. may also realize that there would be a lot of advanced space technology aboard the Ark as well. Is M.O.N.I.T.O.R. still active? How would it react to the interlopers. As ally or a new enemy? What other secrets does the Ark hold?

Sounds very cool! I think it's very do able!