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AP78 wrote:IF a Level 1 mage finds or buys a magic scroll level 1-5 what is the sucess percentage for him to learn the spell. I assume there has to be a chance where he could fail

does anyone have a break down of percentage per level of spell

Also if the Mage increases in level how much does his sucess percentage increase

Rifts Ultimate gives the rules for this.

10%+2% chance per level.

level of the spell is completely irrelevant.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

AP78 wrote:IF a Level 1 mage finds or buys a magic scroll level 1-5 what is the sucess percentage for him to learn the spell. I assume there has to be a chance where he could fail

does anyone have a break down of percentage per level of spell

Also if the Mage increases in level how much does his sucess percentage increase

Rifts Ultimate gives the rules for this.

10%+2% chance per level.

level of the spell is completely irrelevant.

keep in mind this is only for converting a scroll to spell (that is memorizing the scroll rather than casting it) not for learning a spell form another practitioner...as far as i can tell the only rules for learning spells (dopeing them out on your own) are in Through the Glass Darkly Pg 36...there are none for having another caster teaching you a spell; but extrapolating from TtGD shopuld not be too difficult.

Damian Magecraft wrote:keep in mind this is only for converting a scroll to spell (that is memorizing the scroll rather than casting it) not for learning a spell form another practitioner...as far as i can tell the only rules for learning spells (dopeing them out on your own) are in Through the Glass Darkly Pg 36...there are none for having another caster teaching you a spell; but extrapolating from TtGD shopuld not be too difficult.

The obsidian spell thief steals spells and then only has 72 hours to teach his employers the spell. (three galaxies book pg#81-82). So i know that mages can teach other mages and it takes less that 72 hours to do it. Other than that, they give no mechanics for it.

elecgraystone wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:keep in mind this is only for converting a scroll to spell (that is memorizing the scroll rather than casting it) not for learning a spell form another practitioner...as far as i can tell the only rules for learning spells (dopeing them out on your own) are in Through the Glass Darkly Pg 36...there are none for having another caster teaching you a spell; but extrapolating from TtGD shopuld not be too difficult.

The obsidian spell thief steals spells and then only has 72 hours to teach his employers the spell. (three galaxies book pg#81-82). So i know that mages can teach other mages and it takes less that 72 hours to do it. Other than that, they give no mechanics for it.

concidering the costs of spells (RUE pg. 190) I would just give it to the seeker (never saw a reason to punish a player for actually utilizing all the nuances of a class). and charging an outrageous amount for the spll then telling him theres a chance he wont learn it anyway? they do that garbage in other game systems not mine.

gadrin wrote:

elecgraystone wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:keep in mind this is only for converting a scroll to spell (that is memorizing the scroll rather than casting it) not for learning a spell form another practitioner...as far as i can tell the only rules for learning spells (dopeing them out on your own) are in Through the Glass Darkly Pg 36...there are none for having another caster teaching you a spell; but extrapolating from TtGD shopuld not be too difficult.

The obsidian spell thief steals spells and then only has 72 hours to teach his employers the spell. (three galaxies book pg#81-82). So i know that mages can teach other mages and it takes less that 72 hours to do it. Other than that, they give no mechanics for it.

actually it takes longer.

I believe the Q&A for the Book of Magic lists it as "2 days per spell level" p22.

I talked to Carl Gleba about the Obsidian Spell Thief and I believe he wasn't aware of that, and used the number off the old Palladium or Rifts GM Screen.

and proof ...

viewtopic.php?t=62115&highlight=obsidian

What's cool to know. Well as long as the OCC can still do what it was designed to to, i've got no problem with the 2 days per level. Either the spell thieves are REALLY good teachers and finish in 72 hours or they just have to START teaching the spell before the 72 hours are up. Either way works

gadrin wrote:

elecgraystone wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:keep in mind this is only for converting a scroll to spell (that is memorizing the scroll rather than casting it) not for learning a spell form another practitioner...as far as i can tell the only rules for learning spells (dopeing them out on your own) are in Through the Glass Darkly Pg 36...there are none for having another caster teaching you a spell; but extrapolating from TtGD shopuld not be too difficult.

The obsidian spell thief steals spells and then only has 72 hours to teach his employers the spell. (three galaxies book pg#81-82). So i know that mages can teach other mages and it takes less that 72 hours to do it. Other than that, they give no mechanics for it.

actually it takes longer.

I believe the Q&A for the Book of Magic lists it as "2 days per spell level" p22.

I talked to Carl Gleba about the Obsidian Spell Thief and I believe he wasn't aware of that, and used the number off the old Palladium or Rifts GM Screen.

and proof ...

viewtopic.php?t=62115&highlight=obsidian

so if I understand the conversation correctly then...its 2 days per level of spell with teaching but only 2 hrs per level of spell to get the basics? ok I can buy that. But in that case what would the formula for chance to learn be in the latter case? (with a ruling such as this I would not be opposed to penalties being assessed for "speed learning")

2 days per level works for me...

gadrin wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:2 days per level works for me...

2 hours per level to start/get the basics, then by the time you practice & hone until the full "2 days per level" ends up being used.

it was just a way to reconcile the Obsidian Spell Thief with the official rules (which everyone who worked on that OCC forgot about of course)

and Damian wait until you see the Shadow powers in PU3. They seem to be contradictory as well

already saw those resolved most of them myself...

of course by stateing at the HU generation that i will not allow any power that is derivitive of an existing power or can be duplicated by combing 2 or more existant powers roughly 1/2 of the powers are rendered moot...

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

AP78 wrote:IF a Level 1 mage finds or buys a magic scroll level 1-5 what is the sucess percentage for him to learn the spell. I assume there has to be a chance where he could fail

does anyone have a break down of percentage per level of spell

Also if the Mage increases in level how much does his sucess percentage increase

Rifts Ultimate gives the rules for this.

10%+2% chance per level.

level of the spell is completely irrelevant.

keep in mind this is only for converting a scroll to spell (that is memorizing the scroll rather than casting it) not for learning a spell form another practitioner...as far as i can tell the only rules for learning spells (dopeing them out on your own) are in Through the Glass Darkly Pg 36...there are none for having another caster teaching you a spell; but extrapolating from TtGD shopuld not be too difficult.

The book of magic gives that. 2 days per level of the spell: No chance for failure.

gadrin wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:of course by stateing at the HU generation that i will not allow any power that is derivitive of an existing power or can be duplicated by combing 2 or more existant powers roughly 1/2 of the powers are rendered moot...

kill joy

curious, what do you favor in Palladium ? (games or settings, or powers, psi, magic, etc) your name gives me a faint idea.

Magic is my forte and baliwick yes but i prefer a strong setting and smooth system as i tend to get stuck GMing.

elecgraystone wrote:The obsidian spell thief steals spells and then only has 72 hours to teach his employers the spell. (three galaxies book pg#81-82). So i know that mages can teach other mages and it takes less that 72 hours to do it. Other than that, they give no mechanics for it.

When teaching a spell to another person it takes two days a level at 8 hours a day, each (teacher ans student) spending 1/2 their base PPE per day in the prossess of learning/teaching.

So if both mages have the PPE and don't need the rest, they can just go round the clock so it can be done in 1/3hr the time. of course this lets in an opportunity for the GM to put his hand in to muddle up the waters and change the final spell that is taught due to the Faugtige factor.

This is the standard for Mage to Mage teaching. Maybe the OST has a way of psycicly transfering the spell to another.

Please all of you are making me , what about Through the Glass
Darkly? The author gives rules to All Mages-True mages, not mystics, for
researching, spell variants, & alternate spells. The base chance for this
relates to the Principles of Magic Skill-70+IQ+2/lvl. I modify this because
the percentages are too low for 10th-spells of legend. even with a high ME,
& IQ. Check it out
G

Grandil wrote:Please all of you are making me , what about Through the Glass
Darkly? The author gives rules to All Mages-True mages, not mystics, for
researching, spell variants, & alternate spells. The base chance for this
relates to the Principles of Magic Skill-70+IQ+2/lvl. I modify this because
the percentages are too low for 10th-spells of legend. even with a high ME,
& IQ. Check it out
G

if you will reffer to my first post i mention TtGD and the fact this only covers extrapolting from notes and self invetion...the disscusion is on the length of time it takes one mage to teach another

Grandil wrote:Please all of you are making me , what about Through the Glass
Darkly? The author gives rules to All Mages-True mages, not mystics, for
researching, spell variants, & alternate spells. The base chance for this
relates to the Principles of Magic Skill-70+IQ+2/lvl. I modify this because
the percentages are too low for 10th-spells of legend. even with a high ME,
& IQ. Check it out
G

Sence this topic is about Spell Scroll Convertion there was no need to mention the spell creation rules in TtGD.

Though DM was only partly right in hiss 1st post. Spell scroll convertion is when a mage trys to figure out how to cast the scroll the spell while on his own he reading out loud from the spell scroll.
Not "memorizing" per say, it is figuring it out, becasue each mage has their own idiocentric way of casting spells. Thus the time needed to learn how to cast new spells is long and involved, and why such a low % for the spell scroll convertion skill. If this wasn't so, then each mage would be able to learn new spells just by observing another mage casting spells.

As for the spell theif.....I would happen to geuss that the OST is able to take the completed 'spell form' (life force construct, life patterns etc... the spell in its completed form) as a whole, not really knowing who it works but able to replicate the spell while he still able to maintain the 'spell form'.

PS: Well maybe the mage is 'memorizing' how the 'spell form' is put together by the scroll while he is reading the scroll and the final 'spell form' of the spell. Yes, the mage has to be the one reading the scroll for him to be able to figure out the spell on the scroll.

Grandil wrote:Please all of you are making me , what about Through the Glass
Darkly? The author gives rules to All Mages-True mages, not mystics, for
researching, spell variants, & alternate spells. The base chance for this
relates to the Principles of Magic Skill-70+IQ+2/lvl. I modify this because
the percentages are too low for 10th-spells of legend. even with a high ME,
& IQ. Check it out
G

another thought on this...
TtGD mentions and references the skill Principles of magic...
to the best of my knowledge (do not own BTS2) this skill is only existent in the NB universe and the formula referred to is IQ+ME+1/10 PoM skill+character level =% chance of success (TtGD pg.37) and thats just for figuring out existing magic.
IQ+ME+1/10 PoM skill =% chance of success is for modifying or converting different magics(LLW learning a temporal spell for example) into useable variant spells (pgs. 38 and 39 respectively) and creating new spell altogether is merely IQ+1/10 PoM skill = % chance of success (pg 39).