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It does make her a little overpowered, all she has to do to avoid stalkers and dog packs are change, no fun no fair.

I don't consider it unfair in the least. It's how I run it in my games, as well. After all, in facade form, they ARE just normal hoo-mahns.

Vrykolas2k wrote:I don't consider it unfair in the least. It's how I run it in my games, as well. After all, in facade form, they ARE just normal hoo-mahns.

Cool, your game run it like you want too, I would do it differently.

Greyaxe wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:I don't consider it unfair in the least. It's how I run it in my games, as well. After all, in facade form, they ARE just normal hoo-mahns.

Cool, your game run it like you want too, I would do it differently.

Yep.
I don't think psi-stalkers and dog packs should find every non-norm as easily as they do. You also have to remember that in facade form, they're SDC creatures with no real advantage over anyone else; most don't even have much in the way of combat skills. They can wear body armour if it's available, but since they'd have to take it off in morphus form (usually), they're just as vulnerable to insta-death as any other normal human, elf, whatever that's SDC.
Letting them pass for normal in facade form also opens up a lot of opportunies for the character that a dragon or other shape-shifter should, but can't, exploit.

Vrykolas2k wrote:

Greyaxe wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:I don't consider it unfair in the least. It's how I run it in my games, as well. After all, in facade form, they ARE just normal hoo-mahns.

Cool, your game run it like you want too, I would do it differently.

Yep.
I don't think psi-stalkers and dog packs should find every non-norm as easily as they do. Letting them pass for normal in facade form also opens up a lot of opportunies for the character that a dragon or other shape-shifter should, but can't, exploit.

I’m suggesting they will pass for normal human by any and all tests including blood work and DNA tests but I am of the opinion that they should have a psychic scent a dog boy or psi stalker would pick up. After all their PPE doesn’t disappear when the move between forms, and (its been a really long time since I’ve seen conversion notes for NightSpawn) I believe their transformation is described as magical in nature (could be wrong). That is why I would make them detectable by Dog Packs only.

I'd also have her aura in human form indicate an abberation, like mutants and very sick people do. That might be the only real clue into her being something "more."

Vrykolas2k wrote:They can wear body armour if it's available, but since they'd have to take it off in morphus form (usually), they're just as vulnerable to insta-death as any other normal human, elf, whatever that's SDC.

Not necessarily true. The player upon creating the character gets to pick whether A) the clothes and gear are destroyed, B) they disappear, or C) they just appear on the Morphus form. Now, this does require approval from the GM, but the choice is there.

As far as them passing as normal in Facade, I would say that they definitely should other than a very slight aberration in their aura. The only thing that might throw this is their high amount of PPE.

Of course, if they stay near ley lines, they wouldn't have any trouble at all (since they foul the sense of dog boys and psi-stalkers).

Ninjabunny wrote:

Warwolf wrote:As far as them passing as normal in Facade, I would say that they definitely should other than a very slight aberration in their aura. The only thing that might throw this is their high amount of PPE.

Of course, if they stay near ley lines, they wouldn't have any trouble at all (since they foul the sense of dog boys and psi-stalkers).

But the ley lines aren't safe places to just go hanging around. If your hinding in your facade you could easily get killed.

Other than the armor previously noted.

DogBoyDetroit wrote:snip..

I've houseruled that in facade Nightspawn give off no supernatural signature, though the lingering scent of magic clings to them for a time after they've shifted back from their morphus. It's a story hook, so I wouldn't have made the same decision if a pc was allowed to play a n.s. (shudder), but I'm worried that it might make her even more overpowered than I intended...

You are correct that in their facade that NightSpawn do not give off a SN aura, becasue in their facade they are not SN. This is what the text of the NS says.

To have an aura of magic linger about them is not in the book, but a nice effect, if it does not linger too long.

If you don't want your PCs to play with these rules then make them play NightBane, having them follow the new rules in Dark Convertions.
I won't play post DC NBs in rifts, it makes them tooo (munchy) high powered.

what you have sounds good, i myself will be using some nightbane in my game. Good thing to do is get the Dark Conversions book, its a lot of help for this.

another thought; fleshscalper.

Warwolf wrote:

Ninjabunny wrote:

Warwolf wrote:As far as them passing as normal in Facade, I would say that they definitely should other than a very slight aberration in their aura. The only thing that might throw this is their high amount of PPE.

Of course, if they stay near ley lines, they wouldn't have any trouble at all (since they foul the sense of dog boys and psi-stalkers).

But the ley lines aren't safe places to just go hanging around. If your hinding in your facade you could easily get killed.

Other than the armor previously noted.

Armour isn't generally considered to be clothing.

I've been considering using Nightspawn in my games as well. I've had at least (2) players in games long-since-past play N.S., and they were incredible...bly...powerful. But, I managed them and we all had a great time. Currently, the group I'm with...not sure if I wanna allow such potential to fall into their greasy, cheeto-smelling little hands.

Beatleguise wrote:

After all, in facade form, they ARE just normal hoo-mahns.

This is true. And because of it, they do not count as Super Natural in this form.

BUT they do have a huge amount of PPE. This makes them trackable.

So changing forms can be used to confuse the Dog Boys, etc. But its not going to be a show stopper.

In Rifts following the convertion rules in Dark Convertions, 'Nightbane' are SuperNatural in their Facade. If they were not SN in their facade then they would not be MDC nor Regen while in their facade. This is the two Main Reasons I don't use the DC NB rules. And sence then I have made only NS in the place of any NB.

As for the form change, the dog boys would confused to stopping......unless tracking a mage NS which would have parts of their psi sent the same, instead of totally different with non mage NS.

note: yes I am making a distiction between NightBane and NightSpawn.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Beatleguise wrote:

After all, in facade form, they ARE just normal hoo-mahns.

This is true. And because of it, they do not count as Super Natural in this form.

BUT they do have a huge amount of PPE. This makes them trackable.

So changing forms can be used to confuse the Dog Boys, etc. But its not going to be a show stopper.

In Rifts following the convertion rules in Dark Convertions, 'Nightbane' are SuperNatural in their Facade. If they were not SN in their facade then they would not be MDC nor Regen while in their facade. This is the two Main Reasons I don't use the DC NB rules. And sence then I have made only NS in the place of any NB.

As for the form change, the dog boys would confused to stopping......unless tracking a mage NS which would have parts of their psi sent the same, instead of totally different with non mage NS.

note: yes I am making a distiction between NightBane and NightSpawn.

Well, I wouldn't be so sure about Nightbane being supernatural in Facade. I'll have to pow-wow with the Nightbane writers to be sure, but I could have sworn something was mentioned about it last time I talked to one of them (and no, I will not say who they are).

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:In Rifts following the convertion rules in Dark Convertions, 'Nightbane' are SuperNatural in their Facade. If they were not SN in their facade then they would not be MDC nor Regen while in their facade. This is the two Main Reasons I don't use the DC NB rules. And sence then I have made only NS in the place of any NB.

In dark conversions fasades have hp/sdc and only regenerate hp/sdc damage. It even states that the facade is "typical hp and SDC creature"

I don't see how you figure they're supernatural.