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I am currently playing a Cyber Knight in rifts that uses archery a great deal.

Have you ever noticed the short supply of magic bows in Palladium games? They mention that there are some rune Arrows, but never stat them except in one Rifter article. There are two official Rune Bows and a couple of magic arrows but thats it. Meanwhile your party's tank is sitting on 20 rune great swords because the gods apparently never felt the need to supplie their followers with ranged attacks. And what happens if your warrior's sword can shoot energy bolts? well I guess you just don't need an archer at all!

Very frustrating.

There are some pretty nice bows and crossbows in Phase World that also equal as clubbing weapons.

verdilak wrote:There are some pretty nice bows and crossbows in Phase World that also equal as clubbing weapons.

???

phase world? not that I don't believe you but where?

rat_bastard wrote:

verdilak wrote:There are some pretty nice bows and crossbows in Phase World that also equal as clubbing weapons.

???

phase world? not that I don't believe you but where?

Bah, I was wrong, I meant Aliens Unlimited.

*snoops about the boards a little and comes up with the following for some bows that have been made before and were floating about the net before.

---------------------

Bow of Strength:
Made for exceptionally strong archers, this bow adds any damage bonus the elf might have from high strength to the arrow. For example, an elf with a strength of 25 adds +10 points of damage (MDC or SDC, depending on the arrow type) to the arrows damage, even when that damage is magical. Only those with a P.S. of 18 or better can use this type of bow. P.P.E. cost to create: 100.
Spells required: Supernatural strength and Mystic Fulcrum. Time to create: 1 Day.

Bow of Durability:
The most common bow, all mystic archers have one to start. This is simply a bow able to withstand mega-damage and normal SDC arrows fired from it do mega-damage instead. MDC: 200 for the bow, 50 for the string. The bow or string must be targeted directly. P.P.E. cost to create: 75.
Spell required: Ironwood and power weapon. Time to create: 1 Day.

Bow of Protection:
Holding this bow provides the elf with an aura of protection from mega-damage attacks. Has 100 MDC for the bow and 25 MDC for the string. Provides the elf with 25 MDC per level of its creator and regenerates 10 MDC per minute. If the field is completely destroyed it cannot be raised again for 24 hours. P.P.E. cost to create: 120.
Spells required: Invincible Armor, Ironwood and Energy field. Time to create: 1 Day.

Bow of Accuracy:
For 5 P.P.E. per shot, arrows fired from this bow almost never miss! Only by rolling an 18 or higher can a target dodge this attack and the arrows cannot be parried. SDC arrows fired from this bow do mega-damage for another 5 P.P.E. P.P.E. cost to create: 150.
Spells required: Locate, Eyes of the wolf and Power weapon. Time to create: 1 Day.

.....

as i stated, they were made to go with a site that is currently NOT on the net. well a part of it is no longer on the net. so ... minor bows have ONE of the properties mentioned ... greater bows would have 2 .. and greatest would have all f ... but i think the price at that point was super high and MOST people couldn't afford it for starting chars.

verdilak wrote:Bah, I was wrong, I meant Aliens Unlimited.

Yep. Check out the CAL repeating bow. A bow that uses your attacks per round NOT archery ROF. It's one of my fav's.

As for Magic bows, well your just out of luck. The japan book has one, but that's about it from what i remember.

elecgraystone wrote:

verdilak wrote:Bah, I was wrong, I meant Aliens Unlimited.

Yep. Check out the CAL repeating bow. A bow that uses your attacks per round NOT archery ROF. It's one of my fav's.

As for Magic bows, well your just out of luck. The japan book has one, but that's about it from what i remember.

You might as well invest in a fleet of gold plated samas, the Japan bow is way too expensive.

rat_bastard wrote:

elecgraystone wrote:

verdilak wrote:Bah, I was wrong, I meant Aliens Unlimited.

Yep. Check out the CAL repeating bow. A bow that uses your attacks per round NOT archery ROF. It's one of my fav's.

As for Magic bows, well your just out of luck. The japan book has one, but that's about it from what i remember.

You might as well invest in a fleet of gold plated samas, the Japan bow is way too expensive.

If someone is sitting on "20 rune great swords" money shouldn't be a problem. The cost is the same for the lesser zen bow as a greater rune weapon so i don't see it as being any more expensive than all the rune weapons the other guy has.

PS:There are the artifacts of power in the nightbane book nightlands pgs#18-20. Any of them can be made as bows and there are rifts conversion notes. however, i don't see them as costing any less than rune weapons.

Cutlass wrote:Use goblin grenades for arrow points!
No one will mock your archer after firing carpet of adesion or speed of the snail at a bunch of enemies....

eww. I'll second that.

Cutlass wrote:Use goblin grenades for arrow points!
No one will mock your archer after firing carpet of adesion or speed of the snail at a bunch of enemies....

sure, my one shot will cost the same as the e-clip in my party member's gun.

In a group I used to be part of we came up with a few Rune, TW, and enchanted bows. If I can find them I pm them to you.

rat_bastard wrote:

Cutlass wrote:Use goblin grenades for arrow points!
No one will mock your archer after firing carpet of adesion or speed of the snail at a bunch of enemies....

sure, my one shot will cost the same as the e-clip in my party member's gun.

sure they are expensive, but you just convince the GM that a quiver of them counts as one clip, when picking out starting equipment.

Also, a really, really cool bow is the Bio-Energy bow from the Jungle Elves in SA1 or 2. Eric the Ranger from the old D&D cartoon anyone?

heya

*slooowly pushes a plate of biscuits and a glass of water towards rat bastard* here u go buddy, wipe away your tears

i like creating TW devices and weapons, and i am actually currently working on a bow, i can post it here when i am done if ur interested.

BE

rat_bastard wrote:I am currently playing a Cyber Knight in rifts that uses archery a great deal.

Have you ever noticed the short supply of magic bows in Palladium games? They mention that there are some rune Arrows, but never stat them except in one Rifter article. There are two official Rune Bows and a couple of magic arrows but thats it. Meanwhile your party's tank is sitting on 20 rune great swords because the gods apparently never felt the need to supplie their followers with ranged attacks. And what happens if your warrior's sword can shoot energy bolts? well I guess you just don't need an archer at all!

Very frustrating.

I have a PFRPG Longbowman in Rifts, and he does just fine.
Alchemist enchantments go a long way, but as written don't really help bows shoot arrows better.
Although it's nice to have a bow that's indestructable.

What you want to do is to get an alchemist to enchant an arrow.
Teleport to Weilder is a must, because otherwise you might lose it.
Indestructability can be nice, for the same reasons.
Super Sharpness is good for the +4 damage and increased criticals.

Inspiration for this weapon came from various places, but the TK weapons presented in RUE was a great help in developing the bow as well as to get inspiration on which spells to use to make a powerful weapon.

Item Description: This weapon is build using the frame of a modern compound bow. The bow should probably be a MDC construction so that it can withstand the strain of the powerful magics that is being build into the weapon. Another reason to engineer the weapon as an MDC structure is that it increases combat durability and decreases the likelihood of an opponent simply destroying the weapon, and thereby disarming the archer. Some archers also rely on their bow for protection by parrying incoming attacks from enemies that engage them in hand to hand combat, an SDC bow could not withstand such an onslaught for long.
The bow will typically be encrusted with the necessary gems, mostly around the grip, but also along the length of the bow all the way from tip to tip. The string will be made out of extremely durable metal-wire, nano-wire or a similar flexible and tough material. This can include a multitude of rare magical components such as the hair from a cyclops, ki-lin or similar creature for those Techno Wizards who want to create really extraordinary bows. Using those special magical components in the construction may have unforeseen bonuses/effects, but that would be entirely up to the GM. A lot of gold or copper wire is also used in the construction of the bow.
Near the grip of the bow, where the arrow is fired from, the bow has been modified with a gizmo that looks like a coil of wire attached to a scope. Arrows fired from the bow are launched through this coil, and when the magic is activated the effects are quite dramatic, the arrows speed is accelerated to supersonic speed, not unlike what happens to a railgun round when it is fired from a railgun. At the bottom of the TW Bow the main control unit for the TW modified mini radar system (Mercenaries page 99) is located, it is also connected to the coil near the handle of the TW Bow via several gold wires. This system, also called the “Smart Arrow” system, enables the arrows fired to find several targets and to ricochet to hit several (up to three) targets with only one arrow.
The bow can also be used as a regular bow to fire any kind of arrow, both SDC, MDC and magical. It is not until the TW Bows features are activated through the expenditure of PPE or ISP that the damage/duration/effects/bonuses below are applicable.

1st Spell Chain: The primary function of this spell chain is to power up both the bow and the scope with magical energy to enable the archer to unleash arrows with great precision while also being able to inflict serious damage to an opponent. To accomplish these feats the primary spell will be Superhuman Strength, the spell normally enhances the spellcasters strength to supernatural levels, the idea is that the bow is enchanted to launch arrows as if they were fired by a person with a supernatural strength of 30. Since this weapon only uses “half” the actual bonuses that the spell Superhuman Strength normally provides, which is the strength but also an endurance bonus, I hope, that the duration will be extended beyond the spells normal duration. The spell Mystic Fulcrum has been added as one of the secondary spells because the spell allows the user of the bow to tweak the laws of physics. This should enable any character to use the bow regardless of actual physical strength and still fire arrows as if he or she had supernatural strength. To add additional power to the arrows fired, the secondary spells Telekinesis and Barrage have also been added. The spell Telekinesis is part of the coil feature that has been added to further accelerate the arrows fired by the archer, this works very similar to the principles behind the railgun. Barrage was added to give the arrows greater impact power, and I was aiming for the effect, that the arrows have a chance to knock targets down. The spell Detect Concealment is a part of the Scope feature build into the TW Bow and the idea is that the Scope adds a bonus to strike when launching arrows, the idea for adding this spell came from the TK Sniper Rifle presented in RUE page 138. Finally the spell Energy Bolt was added to the list with three purposes in mind, the first is to fire up the TW Bow, the second is to give some power to the system and to extend the duration if possible, and the third is to add some additional power to the Barrage knock-down effect.
Primary Spell: Superhuman Strength (10): Black Pearl; 6000 credits per carat. Will need at least 2 carats worth, either as 2 separate gems or one large gem. To lower the construction cost of this item 8 carats worth of Black pearl has been used in the construction.
Secondary Spell(s): Each secondary spell requires a gem of one carat per spell (regardless of the device level), although low level spells (level six or less) can share a gem, provided all require the same type of gem.
1. Mystic Fulcrum (5): Malachite; 2500 credits per carat.
2. Telekinesis (8 ): Purple Opal; 500 credits per carat.
3. Barrage (15): Green Opal; 500 credits per carat.
4. Detect Concealment (6): Amber; 600 credits per carat.
5. Energy Bolt (5): Zircon (Red); 2000 credits per carat.

● Required Gems: Superhuman Strength (One large 8 carat Black Pearl or two 4 carat Black Peals), Mystic Fulcrum (One 1 carat Malachite), Telekinesis (One 1 carat Purple Opal), Barrage (One 1 carat Green Opal), Detect Concealment (One 1 carat Amber) and Energy Bolt (One 1 carat Red Zircon).
● PPE Construction Cost: 49*40/8 = 245.
● Activation cost: construction cost/20. 245/20 = 12,25 or 12.
● Construction Time: (construction cost/10)* device level. (245/10)*4 = 98.
● Construction Cost: construction cost*10*device level (+gems): 9800.

2nd Spell Chain: The purpose of this second spell chain is to enable the TW Bow to further enhance its already formidable combat abilities. This spell chain activates a unique part of the device that can identify targets and then enchant arrows fired to strike multiple targets for one full melee round, just like the Ricochet Strike spell. The primary spell used to achieve this effect is Ricochet Strike, the spell is combined with the secondary spell named Locate, that has been build into a mini radar system that has actually been build into the bow. Once this system is activated (counts as one action) the mini radar system automatically acquires all possible targets within range (same as the range of the bow), and also enchants all arrows fired by the TW Bow for the rest of the Melee with the Ricochet Strike Spell. The Energy Bolt has been added to the system to power it for the 15 seconds it runs before it needs to be reactivated. The targets are mentally picked by the Archer when he fires the arrow, and they can be changed for each individual arrow at the speed of thought.
Primary Spell: Ricochet Strike (12): Blue Opal; 500 credits per carat. Will need at least 2 carats worth, either as 2 separate gems or one large gem. To lower the construction cost of this item 8 carats worth of Blue Opal has been used in the construction.
Secondary Spell(s): Each secondary spell requires a gem of one carat per spell (regardless of the device level), although low level spells (level six or less) can share a gem, provided all require the same type of gem.
1. Locate (30): White Pearl; 5000 credits per carat.
2. Energy Bolt (5): Zircon (Red); 2000 credits per carat.

● Gems Required: Ricochet Strike (One 8 carat Blue Opal or two 4 carat Blue Opals), Locate (One 1 carat White Pearl) and Energy Bolt (One 1 carat Red Zircon).
● PPE Construction Cost: 47*40/8 = 235.
● Activation cost: construction cost/20. 235/20 = 11,75 or 12.
● Construction Time: (construction cost/10)* device level. (235/10)*4 = 94.
● Construction Cost: construction cost*10*device level (+gems): 9400.

Total: Add the chains together.
- Total Gem Requirements: Superhuman Strength (One large 8 carat Black Pearl or two 4 carat Black Peals) (48000), Mystic Fulcrum (One 1 carat Malachite) (2500), Telekinesis (One 1 carat Purple Opal) (500), Barrage (One 1 carat Green Opal) (500), Detect Concealment (One 1 carat Amber) (600), Ricochet Strike (One 8 carat Blue Opal or two 4 carat Blue Opals) (4000), Locate (One 1 carat White Pearl) (5000) and Energy Bolt (Two 1 carat Red Zircon) (4000) = 65100 credits.
- Total PPE Construction Cost: Chain 1 (245) + Chain 2 (235) = 480 PPE.
- Total Activation cost: Chain 1: 12 PPE and Chain 2: 12 PPE.
- Total Construction Time: Chain 1 (98 ) + Chain 2 (94) = 192 hours.
- Total Construction Cost: Chain 1 (9800) + Chain 2 (9400) = 19200 credits.

Device Stats: "The Marksman" TW Bow.
Device Level: Four.
PPE Construction Cost: Chain 1 (245 PPE) + Chain 2 (235 PPE) = 480 PPE.
- 1st Spell Chain Needed: Primary Spell: Superhuman Strength (10), Secondary Spells: Mystic Fulcrum (5), Telekinesis (8 ), Barrage (15), Detect Concealment (6) and Energy Bolt (5).
- 2nd Spell Chain Needed: Primary Spell: Ricochet Strike (12), Secondary Spells: Locate (30) and Energy Bolt (5).
Physical Requirements: Needs either one large 8 carat Black Pearl or two 4 carat Black Peals (48000), one 1 carat Malachite (2500), One 1 carat Purple Opal (500), One 1 carat Green Opal (500), One 1 carat Amber (600), One 8 carat Blue Opal or two 4 carat Blue Opals (4000), One 1 carat White Pearl (5000) and Two 1 carat Red Zircons (4000) = 65100 credits. By increasing the number of carats of the gems used for the primary spell in each spell chain, the cost for gems has gone up, but the number of PPE required to create the device has gone down. In addition to the gems, the TW will need some of all the items described above under the physical description of the weapon, this includes a mini radar device, copper and gold wire, a MDC modern compound bow chassis, strong wire and several other odds and ends. The total cost for all materials and gems needed to build the weapon is listed below under construction cost.
Construction Cost of the Device: Chain 1 (9800) + Chain 2 (9400) + Gems (65100) = 84300 credits.
Construction Time: Chain 1 (98 hours) + Chain 2 (94 hours) = 192 hours.
MDC: The TW Bow has 36 MDC and the string typically has 15 MDC. Neither takes damage when used to parry, the bow only takes damage when an attacker is deliberately trying to destroy it, doing this requires the attacker to make a successful called shot.
Effect(s): The effect of the First Spell Chain is, that no matter what the type of arrow that is launched from the TW Bow, once it is charged, the arrows will be fired with tremendous speed and power. The arrows are launched as if they were being fired by a character that has a supernatural PS of 30. As if that was not enough, the arrow is further accelerated to supersonic speeds when it is fired and that makes even an SDC projectile inflict mega-damage. This is exactly the same principle used in railguns where SDC round are accelerated to such high speeds that upon impact they can tear right through MDC armor. The TW Bow adds this power to any arrow fired from it and effectively enhances each arrows capability to inflict damage, in addition to providing it with enough momentum to actually knock people down. The effect of the Second Spell Chain is identical to the 4th level spell named Ricochet Strike found on page 102 in the Book of Magic. The effect last for one melee round once activated and affects all arrows fired during this melee!
Mega-Damage: The TW Bow adds an impressive +5d6MD to the damage of any arrow fired plus a chance to knock-down the target that was hit. This damage stacks with whatever damage the arrow does, which can make this weapon very lethal when using the right combo of arrows. When a target is hit by an arrow from the TW Bow they suffer damage, but at the same time the arrow hits with so much force that it has the same effect, as if the target had just been body blocked or tackled by a character with a supernatural strength of 30! Exactly how you handle this I leave up to the GMs to figure out, I personally use the rules presented in RUE for body blocks/tackles. When using SDC arrows their damage would normally also stack with the damage listed above, but since this weapon will probably mostly be used against MDC targets the SDC damage is not applicable, instead these SDC arrows simply inflict the damage listed above as a minimum. When the TW Bow is “powered up” it unleashes a loud noise each time an arrow is fired, it is very reminiscent of a gunshot, but only half as loud. Each arrow also leaves a vapor trail that hangs in the air for a second or two, not unlike tracer rounds.
A note on arrows: Use common sense when using this weapon in combat, if you fire a High Explosive arrow head that inflicts 3d6MD, it would actually inflict 8d6MD when fired from this bow plus the chance to knock the target down. Do not forget however that a high explosive arrow head can only be used once – then it explodes, so activating the “Smart Arrow” system would not do any good when launching explosive arrow heads since they hit one target and then explode!, there would not be anything left to ricochet to the next target.
Duration of Charge: The First Spell Chain has a duration of 4 minutes per activation. The Second Spell Chain (“Smart Arrow”) has a duration of 1 melee round per activation. It counts as one action to activate the “Smart Arrow” feature, but all arrows fired for the remainder of that round are enchanted with the Ricochet Strike spell. This means that it would be a good idea if the archer spends his first action of a melee round to activate this feature to get the most out of it.
To Recharge: To power up the bow with magical energy and thereby enabling it to inflict serious damage (+ knock-down) as well as provide better targeting costs 12 PPE per activation. To activate the “smart arrow” system, which enables the archer to strike up to 3 targets with each arrow fired costs 12 PPE per activation.
Bonuses: The Archer is +2 to strike when the TW Bow is powered up (Using Scope).
Black Market Cost: I would say 450000 credits +, and the weapon would probably be very rare, only very few Techno-Wizards would have the spell knowledge ad expertise to build it.

This is just one possible variation of the TW Bow, using other combinations of spells could create even more specialized or powerful versions. spells that come to mind are; speed weapon, power weapon, fire, cold or electricity spells and similar. it is also possible to add emeralds or diamonds to give the weapon a PPE battery that can be used to activate the features of the bow.

BE

Killer Cyborg wrote:I have a PFRPG Longbowman in Rifts, and he does just fine.
Alchemist enchantments go a long way, but as written don't really help bows shoot arrows better.
Although it's nice to have a bow that's indestructable.

What you want to do is to get an alchemist to enchant an arrow.
Teleport to Weilder is a must, because otherwise you might lose it.
Indestructability can be nice, for the same reasons.
Super Sharpness is good for the +4 damage and increased criticals.

Real fun... go into Western Empire and get the one that allows you to ignore armor.

Kevin Beckman wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I have a PFRPG Longbowman in Rifts, and he does just fine.
Alchemist enchantments go a long way, but as written don't really help bows shoot arrows better.
Although it's nice to have a bow that's indestructable.

What you want to do is to get an alchemist to enchant an arrow.
Teleport to Weilder is a must, because otherwise you might lose it.
Indestructability can be nice, for the same reasons.
Super Sharpness is good for the +4 damage and increased criticals.

Real fun... go into Western Empire and get the one that allows you to ignore armor.

Wouldn't that instantly kill the person in said armor?

And that's a bad thing?

Kevin Beckman wrote:

Marrowlight wrote:And that's a bad thing?

Oh good god no. My PCs don't fear magic much in Rifts and I had forgotten about those arrows.

Looks like I have something else to put the fear of magic into them other than a death ward.

If I want to put the fear of magic into them, I just wait till someone fails a perception roll while on guard duty.

I had a Long Bowman from PF that ended up on RIFTS Earth and eventually got his hands on a Bio-Energy Bow from the "elves" in South America. It was great because he did not have to worry about carrying arrows (though he did have a regular compound bow and arrows in his storage are just in case).

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:Two Ideas
1. buy Nurani "bullets" and convert them to an arrow head 1D4x10 MD arrow

That's a damn good idea.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the thunderbolt arrows Cyclops make. 1d6x10 per shot is not too shabby if you ask me, plus increased range.

rat_bastard wrote:I am currently playing a Cyber Knight in rifts that uses archery a great deal.

Have you ever noticed the short supply of magic bows in Palladium games? They mention that there are some rune Arrows, but never stat them except in one Rifter article. There are two official Rune Bows and a couple of magic arrows but thats it. Meanwhile your party's tank is sitting on 20 rune great swords because the gods apparently never felt the need to supplie their followers with ranged attacks. And what happens if your warrior's sword can shoot energy bolts? well I guess you just don't need an archer at all!

Very frustrating.

Yes its been noticed... and easly fixed.

Make more magical (and rune) bows and make TW arrows cheaper to manufacture and purchase.

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:Two Ideas
1. buy Nurani "bullets" and convert them to an arrow head 1D4x10 MD arrow

Brilliant! Cheap, easy, effective. Can't ask for much more than that.

2 A little less simple but a diobalist enchanting arrows with the rune of death 1D6X10 HP damage, but might be hard to recharge.

By the rules not allowed but if allowed very potent.

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:

Thinyser wrote: By the rules not allowed but if allowed very potent.

Then have the "Trigger" be a word and there you go, the rune will be non hostile untill the "Word Phrase is said"

one would have to speak the trigger word from within the wards range would they not?

That wouldn't work very well for arrows unless you set the trigger as "ughh I've been shot with an arrow!" and the person you shoot happens to play into your little trap.

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:Two Ideas
1. buy Nurani "bullets" and convert them to an arrow head 1D4x10 MD arrow

2 A little less simple but a diobalist enchanting arrows with the rune of death 1D6X10 HP damage, but might be hard to recharge.

the 1d4X10 naruni bullets are two inches wide and thus not usable for human scale arrowheads, but that is doable with the 3d6 bullets

Diabolists are hard to come by.

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:Two Ideas
1. buy Nurani "bullets" and convert them to an arrow head 1D4x10 MD arrow

2 A little less simple but a diobalist enchanting arrows with the rune of death 1D6X10 HP damage, but might be hard to recharge.

the 1d4X10 naruni bullets are two inches wide and thus not usable for human scale arrowheads, but that is doable with the 3d6 bullets

Diabolists are hard to come by.

Book and page please?

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:Two Ideas
1. buy Nurani "bullets" and convert them to an arrow head 1D4x10 MD arrow

2 A little less simple but a diobalist enchanting arrows with the rune of death 1D6X10 HP damage, but might be hard to recharge.

the 1d4X10 naruni bullets are two inches wide and thus not usable for human scale arrowheads, but that is doable with the 3d6 bullets

Diabolists are hard to come by.

Book and page please?

Description of the weapons in mercenary's
page 122, read the description of the bore of the rifle.

I'm sure I've seen it in other places too.

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:Two Ideas
1. buy Nurani "bullets" and convert them to an arrow head 1D4x10 MD arrow

2 A little less simple but a diobalist enchanting arrows with the rune of death 1D6X10 HP damage, but might be hard to recharge.

the 1d4X10 naruni bullets are two inches wide and thus not usable for human scale arrowheads, but that is doable with the 3d6 bullets

Diabolists are hard to come by.

Book and page please?

Description of the weapons in mercenary's
page 122, read the description of the bore of the rifle.

I'm sure I've seen it in other places too.

Bore size does not necessarly mean that it has to have shells of the same diameter... There could be room for the plasma to expand and more surface area of metal so as to distribute the heat from its firing... its not shooting a solid projectile like a normal gun... the Naruni are excellent at marketing, its possible the outer barrel is just for looks (like those stupid 8 inch chrome tail pipes on "tuner" cars).

Bottom line is that bore diameter is not a good indicator of the shell size... as they make those "clasic series" or whatever its called that shoot 1d4x10 shells and are the same size as our modern SDC weapons. 2 inch diameter shells would not fit in a baretta pistol.

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:Two Ideas
1. buy Nurani "bullets" and convert them to an arrow head 1D4x10 MD arrow

2 A little less simple but a diobalist enchanting arrows with the rune of death 1D6X10 HP damage, but might be hard to recharge.

the 1d4X10 naruni bullets are two inches wide and thus not usable for human scale arrowheads, but that is doable with the 3d6 bullets

Diabolists are hard to come by.

Book and page please?

Description of the weapons in mercenary's
page 122, read the description of the bore of the rifle.

I'm sure I've seen it in other places too.

Bore size does not necessarly mean that it has to have shells of the same diameter... There could be room for the plasma to expand and more surface area of metal so as to distribute the heat from its firing... its not shooting a solid projectile like a normal gun... the Naruni are excellent at marketing, its possible the outer barrel is just for looks (like those stupid 8 inch chrome tail pipes on "tuner" cars).

Bottom line is that bore diameter is not a good indicator of the shell size... as they make those "clasic series" or whatever its called that shoot 1d4x10 shells and are the same size as our modern SDC weapons. 2 inch diameter shells would not fit in a baretta pistol.

recheck the naruni wave book, the classic series shoots 3d6 mdc bullets.

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:Two Ideas
1. buy Nurani "bullets" and convert them to an arrow head 1D4x10 MD arrow

2 A little less simple but a diobalist enchanting arrows with the rune of death 1D6X10 HP damage, but might be hard to recharge.

the 1d4X10 naruni bullets are two inches wide and thus not usable for human scale arrowheads, but that is doable with the 3d6 bullets

Diabolists are hard to come by.

Book and page please?

Description of the weapons in mercenary's
page 122, read the description of the bore of the rifle.

I'm sure I've seen it in other places too.

Bore size does not necessarly mean that it has to have shells of the same diameter... There could be room for the plasma to expand and more surface area of metal so as to distribute the heat from its firing... its not shooting a solid projectile like a normal gun... the Naruni are excellent at marketing, its possible the outer barrel is just for looks (like those stupid 8 inch chrome tail pipes on "tuner" cars).

Bottom line is that bore diameter is not a good indicator of the shell size... as they make those "clasic series" or whatever its called that shoot 1d4x10 shells and are the same size as our modern SDC weapons. 2 inch diameter shells would not fit in a baretta pistol.

recheck the naruni wave book, the classic series shoots 3d6 mdc bullets.

Ah yes I had forgotten, I don't have access to Naruni Wave 2 now but my error still doesn't change the fact that the bore is not a good refernce to determine the diameter of the shells.

Say they are 2 inches in diameter... the NE-10 in Phaseworld has 20 round capacity. Stacked thats 40 inches of ammo, even side-by-side thats 20+ inches of 4+ inch wide magazine... I really dont think the bore size has any relevance when guess-timating the size of the cartridges.

I'd bet they were more the size of a 20 guage shotgun shell... maybe a bit shorter.

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:Two Ideas
1. buy Nurani "bullets" and convert them to an arrow head 1D4x10 MD arrow

2 A little less simple but a diobalist enchanting arrows with the rune of death 1D6X10 HP damage, but might be hard to recharge.

the 1d4X10 naruni bullets are two inches wide and thus not usable for human scale arrowheads, but that is doable with the 3d6 bullets

Diabolists are hard to come by.

Book and page please?

Description of the weapons in mercenary's
page 122, read the description of the bore of the rifle.

I'm sure I've seen it in other places too.

Bore size does not necessarly mean that it has to have shells of the same diameter... There could be room for the plasma to expand and more surface area of metal so as to distribute the heat from its firing... its not shooting a solid projectile like a normal gun... the Naruni are excellent at marketing, its possible the outer barrel is just for looks (like those stupid 8 inch chrome tail pipes on "tuner" cars).

Bottom line is that bore diameter is not a good indicator of the shell size... as they make those "clasic series" or whatever its called that shoot 1d4x10 shells and are the same size as our modern SDC weapons. 2 inch diameter shells would not fit in a baretta pistol.

recheck the naruni wave book, the classic series shoots 3d6 mdc bullets.

Ah yes I had forgotten, I don't have access to Naruni Wave 2 now but my error still doesn't change the fact that the bore is not a good refernce to determine the diameter of the shells.

Say they are 2 inches in diameter... the NE-10 in Phaseworld has 20 round capacity. Stacked thats 40 inches of ammo, even side-by-side thats 20+ inches of 4+ inch wide magazine... I really dont think the bore size has any relevance when guess-timating the size of the cartridges.

I'd bet they were more the size of a 20 guage shotgun shell... maybe a bit shorter.

He has the advantage here, especially when you think about WHAT it fires.


It's basically solid pellets that become plasma. Now, if you know anything about physics, matter expands when heated up. The bullets will be less than half that size, then expand to fill the barrel as it goes.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Percy Ferkelberger wrote:

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:Two Ideas
1. buy Nurani "bullets" and convert them to an arrow head 1D4x10 MD arrow

2 A little less simple but a diobalist enchanting arrows with the rune of death 1D6X10 HP damage, but might be hard to recharge.

the 1d4X10 naruni bullets are two inches wide and thus not usable for human scale arrowheads, but that is doable with the 3d6 bullets

Diabolists are hard to come by.

Book and page please?

Description of the weapons in mercenary's
page 122, read the description of the bore of the rifle.

I'm sure I've seen it in other places too.

Bore size does not necessarly mean that it has to have shells of the same diameter... There could be room for the plasma to expand and more surface area of metal so as to distribute the heat from its firing... its not shooting a solid projectile like a normal gun... the Naruni are excellent at marketing, its possible the outer barrel is just for looks (like those stupid 8 inch chrome tail pipes on "tuner" cars).

Bottom line is that bore diameter is not a good indicator of the shell size... as they make those "clasic series" or whatever its called that shoot 1d4x10 shells and are the same size as our modern SDC weapons. 2 inch diameter shells would not fit in a baretta pistol.

recheck the naruni wave book, the classic series shoots 3d6 mdc bullets.

Ah yes I had forgotten, I don't have access to Naruni Wave 2 now but my error still doesn't change the fact that the bore is not a good refernce to determine the diameter of the shells.

Say they are 2 inches in diameter... the NE-10 in Phaseworld has 20 round capacity. Stacked thats 40 inches of ammo, even side-by-side thats 20+ inches of 4+ inch wide magazine... I really dont think the bore size has any relevance when guess-timating the size of the cartridges.

I'd bet they were more the size of a 20 guage shotgun shell... maybe a bit shorter.

He has the advantage here, especially when you think about WHAT it fires.


It's basically solid pellets that become plasma. Now, if you know anything about physics, matter expands when heated up. The bullets will be less than half that size, then expand to fill the barrel as it goes.

I think you're agreeing with me as thats pretty much what I was thinking only not as a pellet. More as a mini bottle of gas like a small CO2 tank and a micro e-clip with just enough energy to turn the gas to plasma and project it out the barrel.

Here is how I think it works.

-The cartridge is loaded into the chamber like a normal SDC gun. At the pull of the trigger the cartridge releases the gas into the barrel and the mini-eclip releases its energy into the gun.
-The energy from the cartridge causes magnets in the barrel to supercompress the gas to become superheated plasma which is squirted out the end. (the large diameter of the barrel is to allow the gas to expand out of the cartridge the instant before it is compressed and squirted)
-Game physics steps in and allows the plasma to fly through the air neither mixing with it nor loosing its heat.

I always thought of plasma weapons (the plasma based flame throwers as the exception) as using a "magnetic bottle" for projecting th e plasma over long distances. Basically the weapons creates a cohesive blast of magnetic energy, in the center is a hollow space that the designers trap the plasma in.
That's the explanation used in the games I run, which means if you can figure out how to magnetically shield your armor, you can bounce those bolts right back at your opponent.

Nikoli wrote:I always thought of plasma weapons (the plasma based flame throwers as the exception) as using a "magnetic bottle" for projecting th e plasma over long distances. Basically the weapons creates a cohesive blast of magnetic energy, in the center is a hollow space that the designers trap the plasma in.
That's the explanation used in the games I run, which means if you can figure out how to magnetically shield your armor, you can bounce those bolts right back at your opponent.

Problem is inless you are launching a magnetic projectile there is no way to launch a magnetic field... this is why "game physics" must step in and make this work.

Well, of course in game mechanics that don't actually work due to those pesky laws of physics have to step in. Without them Gene Roddenbery would still be writing westerns.

Look if a game designer could come up with enough real world science for everything in a sience fiction type game, they'd be ona jet to a DoD think tank so fast the book would never see print.
Some of it is theory, some of it is pure bunk. None of that matters as long as it's cool, resonably balanced against the universe, and difficult to attain.

I like the idea of the Naruni Plasma Bullets, but how would they act without the bore of th weapon they were designed for to shape them? My first thought is that the energy would be more likely to blip away unfocused, sure the target would take a hit, but not as great a one as they might if the same round were fired from a gun.
Maybe limit it to the smaller (3d6 and 5d6) calibre rounds and drop the dice by one category, 3d6 becomes 3d4 for lack of a focused beam

Nikoli wrote:I like the idea of the Naruni Plasma Bullets, but how would they act without the bore of th weapon they were designed for to shape them? My first thought is that the energy would be more likely to blip away unfocused, sure the target would take a hit, but not as great a one as they might if the same round were fired from a gun.
Maybe limit it to the smaller (3d6 and 5d6) calibre rounds and drop the dice by one category, 3d6 becomes 3d4 for lack of a focused beam

Imagine a CO2 cartridge venting spraying a brief cone shaped puff of gas... now imagine that gas superheated (to the point that even ceramic melts) and clingy like napalm. The barrel just squirts it out, when it arrives at the target its the same super hot napalm effect.

Nikoli wrote:I like the idea of the Naruni Plasma Bullets, but how would they act without the bore of th weapon they were designed for to shape them? My first thought is that the energy would be more likely to blip away unfocused, sure the target would take a hit, but not as great a one as they might if the same round were fired from a gun.
Maybe limit it to the smaller (3d6 and 5d6) calibre rounds and drop the dice by one category, 3d6 becomes 3d4 for lack of a focused beam

read the trap making skill in CWM, it details the effect of the "Naruni Bullet mine", no damage is lost just range and focus.

surprised no one has mentioned this yet...on the 2nd to last (p231) page of dragons & gods there are some ridiculous magic arrows....