Forums of the Megaverse®

Hi there!

Dunno...

Fighters - IMO - can be assembled as fast as cars, ie.
from molten metal to first flight cca. 24 hours, more
if nanotech assembly plants are used.

Adios
KLM

Ceizyk wrote:Heh yeah i know I didn't notice that until i wrote it down most space fighters with a good high tech factory via assembly line or even nano-pools could accomplish a fighter or several but it's still the larger ships i'm more interested in based upon time.

Ummmmmmm...
Can't really help ya there dude
It, again, is all based on financial infrastructure and tech-base of who is building the ships.
In theory, an advanced enough race / world can build a capital ship from raw asteroid to full-functional dreadnaught in under week...but that's the "powers unto the gods themselves" category.
Realisticly; anywhere from the 1- 4 years mark.
Oh..and considdering how much red-tape and commitee crap the CCW has going on, I'd say tack on another 2-12 months to any build times .

modern aircraft factories can put out abut 12 planes a year. call that an average.

with minimal automation, maybe half that. (small company 'working out of their garage' type with basic assembly line set up, but few robotic automation)

heavily automated (say, equivalent to a modern car factory), maybe 50% more, 18 a year.

fully automated, no manual laborer's, say double.

no assembly line and no automation (say a scratch build made by an small group), probably only 1-2 a year, assuming they spend all their time on it. probably would be more like 1 every 2 years if not a priority build.

a modular design, made up of easily replaceable standardized parts and no fancy structural, mechanical, or electrical systems can probably bump this up by 50%, as the parts would be plug-and-play.

the bigger the craft, the longer it takes. in the time to build one 747 today for example, you could see 4-6 fighters get produced. a bigger ship has more wiring to run, more stuff to install, and is harder to build on an assembly line type set up.

a full fledged starship like the hunter would take most of a year from the keel being layed to final testing, while a ship like the packmaster would be looking at 2-3 years at least before it could even be considered space worthy, much less ready for duty.

of course, this is per line, and assumes all the parts required are on hand ready to be installed. delays in producing/obtaining the components will slow you down.

in the 3G's, most shipbuilders would have multiple factory lines and docks building each design as fast as possible, most ships are a probably going to be at least semi-modular to cut down build times, and there will be as much automation as can be used to augment the 'human' workers.

of course, some shipyards have holdups. like the TGE's use of the shell of a monstrous mollusk to build their ships. that would explain their general lack of huge battleships, getting a shell big enough to use would be hard.

Your numbers arn't that far off Ceizyk, the book lists the Doombringer construction cost at 50 Billion so 55000 is about right. But I don't think it comes out well with other ships like the Warsheild.



It took about 5 or 6 years for the Reagan to go from keel to commisioned, and 2 years for a SR-71 to be built(for the first prototype that is).

Sounds like interesting numbers!

gadrin wrote:didn't Uncle Servo put together some sort of spreadsheet where he compiled and compared all that stuff ?

you can PM him and see what he discovered.

I think he figured out it was pretty much a "pin the tale on the donkey" type arrangement. close one eye, throw a dart and see where it lands.

I'm not sure if Uncle Servo and Craig Starses are the same person, but I got my spreadsheet from Craig last year. It has been extensively modified since then. I've sent it to a couple of folks, like Mad Max, but I'll put a copy of it up on my page later tonight.
For most of the vessels, it is very accurate. For others, there seems to be another factor involved somewhere in its pricing.

Where is this located? I'd like to see it.

It's on my RPG Notes page, under the Phase World notes.

The figures for the main construction costs are pretty much accurate to SB1 and the various other books. The only things that don't work very well yet are the weapons. The missile formulas work decently, but for the rest, you are better off plugging in the numbers from the books.

Thanks Devillin!

This is thinking outside the box but... Get a Machine Person or a Rogue Mechaniod (a few cloaking spells/psi/or techology and travel to The Great Machine and take contol of a few Defender Generators (as DB7 Megaverse Builder pages 73-84 all the info you need.) Now, create your ship in pieces with some Top Techology in little time.

The Full Working Generator can make (Example with blue prints) 4 glitter boys per minute...no cost to you (though if detected by the great machine you will have a lot of enemies to deal with )

I don't think even they could actually do that.

Aramanthus wrote:I don't think even they could actually do that.

Well, in the DB7 Megaverse Builder pages 73-84 the adventure showed that a Mechaniod Brain took control of a damaged Generator and I'm sure there are other damaged generators. Or did you building a ship in pieces or building 4 glitter boys a minute (That I read and know they can do )

Well I said in the begin it was out of the box (way out)

So, anyone try the spreadsheet yet? Any comments?

I have to find it when I'm actually at home! Right now I'm a t work.

Looks like I'll have to download it at work since my computer at home keeps telling me that there is a Runtime Error line 18. Something about the wait time.

Ceizyk wrote:Okay here is the question and maybe I’ve just missed it in the posting threads but how does one go through calculating cost and construction costs?

Back to topic...

I guess time and costs are really in a wide spectrum, since
it is "canon", than one can tinker a tramp freighter out of
a cargo container, but at the same time, the TGE definitely
have several planets (even solar systems) entirely devoted
to shipbuilding.

On the other hand, the TGE uses organic hulls, so they are
probably grown throught years or even decades, which seems
painfully slow, but they probably have thousands if not millions
of hulls somewhere the process at any given time, so they can
easily spit out dozens of frigates per day.

Another issue is the "modular" vs. "conventional" design.

If a ship is assembled of smaller modules, more "hands" can work
on the project, so it is faster. On the other hand, "conventional"
manufacturing might give a more efficient design, with more
output.

And there are "hybrids". The MEKO system used IRL is
halfway between, ie. they build a hull, with wirings, pipes,
etc, and just a few systems (weapons, electronics) which
are housed in "standard" cargo cans are prefabricated
somewhere else.

Also a for costs... Compare a low-run product to a large-run
one (Like JAS-37 Gripen to the F-16)...

So, all in all, depending on the facility they made in, starship
construction time and costs might differ even in a magnitude,
while both ends producing the same or at least a comparable
desing.

Adios
KLM

Interesting thoughts on the matter at hand KLM! Very cool!

Another issue is the various needs for a shipbuilding facility.

For my part, I find it perfectly beleivable for a crusier to
be able to manufacture her fighters using her onboard
facilities (like the USS Voyager's crew creating the
Delta Flyer).

Adios
KLM

But those facilities on board a ship would be very limited compared to fixed facility. You might be limited to what size your ship was. Say a Heavy Cruiser might be able to build say a dozen extra fighters from spare parts. Of course that might be way out of line (number wise too) for even that size ship. Although for a Packmaster, they might be able to assemble say up to 4 to 6 squadrons. The ship is pretty darn big, and they've got a decent cargo capacity.

on ship built .. perhaps they might be considered to be 'drones' and not piloted.

besides that info supplied to date, you gotta think of one last thing. IF the worlds/races/what-have-you are like the car builders now a days, they will do their best to put the 'little guy' out of business.
why?
cause its competition. CAN'T have that and still make a big-time profit. in the Multiverse, it all comes down to finances and power to maintain your hold. IF you prove to be a threat, you can be sure that ... the 'bigger fish' will come and get you and blow you outta the water.

just a couple of other thoughts tossed in

I like to think of the 3Gs as wide open for competition! Remember you have all of those little systems that aren't connected to anything or anyone! So there is a lot of that in my game.

Aramanthus wrote:But those facilities on board a ship would be very limited compared to fixed facility. You might be limited to what size your ship was. Say a Heavy Cruiser might be able to build say a dozen extra fighters from spare parts. (...)

Kinda.

On the other hand, IMO ships have furnaces (some are
just big enough to cast an MDC plate to cover a fist-sized
hole, some are able to produce the capital-grade armor
plates to patch up the last cruise missile hit), and there
are the nano-assemblers.

I guess nanotech is widespread enough (and enough
Machine People were abducted for research ) to make it
feasible.

No, there is the question of parts/raw materials, which
are limited... Or are they?

Well, it is not a coincidence, that every battlefield is
riddled by scavengers, most notably the Axis-5.
However, ships in distress, with sufficiently advanced
onboard "workshop" can spend some quality time
in an asteroid belt, mining, tinkering and finally
patching.

--------------------------------------------------------------
As for the car manufacturer paralell... Well, the 3 Galaxies
is not open for one single company. The NE "just recently"
split up (Hartigal Combine) and the TGE shoots them on
sight.

CCW-aligned corps must conform with the equivalent
of the Prime Directive (Civilisation PAct or something
like that), thought they often try to cheat (that is why
the TVIA gets the taxpayers' credits).

The TGE probably have an economy, which is very
similar to the soviet-era "state-corporation", which are
unwelcome in the CCW and the UWW (thought probably
have a few unique products - since the setting must have
built in niches for your "scum of the galaxy" smuggler
party )

That said, they (ie. the corporations) are trying hard...
Even there is canon proof for it - the Avenger PA's flavor
text.

Adios
KLM

devillin wrote:It's on my RPG Notes page, under the Phase World notes.

The figures for the main construction costs are pretty much accurate to SB1 and the various other books. The only things that don't work very well yet are the weapons. The missile formulas work decently, but for the rest, you are better off plugging in the numbers from the books.

Quick Note, I finally got a chance to update some of the figures to SB1 Revised costs. The new sheet will be up in a bit. Here's a breakdown of the prices for things not taken directly out of the Phase World books.

Power Systems: Standard is antimatter (Figure based on reactor prices from SB1R): Cost is equal to the (size multiplier)*number of years*1000000 - ((size multiplier)*number of years*1000000*0.20).

Sublight Speed: For formula purposes use the mach speed listed for the ship. Cost is equal to the (size multiplier cubed)*(max mach in space squared)*10000 (Based on SB1R movement costs).

FTL Speed: Figure based on actual CG and Phase Drive Cost + Spare Parts/Extra Drives: Valid Speeds: 0, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5, 5.2, 6.5, 6.7, 7 lys/hr

Military Vehicle Hull Cost: 4000 (Vehicle Armor p37) + 7500 (Aircraft Frame p25) = 11500 per MDC.
Civilian Vehicle Hull Cost (For if you have there being a difference between civilian and military armor types): 800 (Robot Armor p37) + 7500 (Aircraft Frame p25) = 8300 per MDC.

Ship's Electronics:
Military: 425000 (Comp Core p20) + 188000 (Com Suite+Wide Band p28) + 160000 (optics p28) + 200000 (Combat Comp p29) + 600000 (Radar p30) = 1.573 Mil
Civilian: 65% of Cost = 1.022 Mil for 50% Range

Shields:
Variable shields min size is 200 per side. Cost is equal to MDC*8000*10
Standard Shields min size is 400. Cost is MDC*8000
Cost is based on Naruni shields from DB02. I took the average cost per MDC for NF-12 (7777), N-20 (6666), and N-40 (9090) shields, and rounded up to take the N-50 into account. I did not include the N-50 because it is so much more expensive than the rest (15625), with no noticable improvement for twice the price. Variable forcefields have 6 sides (6 individual shields) and recharge at twice the rate of regular shields, so they should technically have a x12 modifier. I made it x10 for a better rounded number.

TW pricing does not work yet, but kind of gives you an idea of where to start the costs.

Any questions?

Interesting modifiers! Please tell us when you've updated it.

Aramanthus wrote:Interesting modifiers! Please tell us when you've updated it.

The newer sheet is up now.

Thanks for the update Devillin!