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there's alot of legal upgrades,skill crunching and level stacking you can do in rifts.I've seen players with level 5 characters that were strong enough to hold their own in spylnn market, human characters.not for a long time but long enough to have me let out a silent wow before they died.
so in light of the astronomical level of munchkinism that is possible in rifts,does that make you as a GM feel the need to have to get heavy handed with the game?
I know 3 people that attempted to GM their games but gave up either out of boredom or lost of control.the other side of that spectrum is to make things so difficult that players basically give up out of pure anxt.

so what do you stand and have you came up with a happy medium?

The short answer is that there are many ways to strike the balance.

There is no reason for a GM's game to get out of the GM's control.

There are always bulls with bigger horns than the PCs. Always. And that does not necessarily mean physical power. There are many other situations that can keep the PCs in check. Humans have to drink water, for example. Vehicles need fuel and to be maintained and repaired. There may not be spare parts for 100s of miles.

lather wrote:Humans have to drink water, for example. Vehicles need fuel and to be maintained and repaired. There may not be spare parts for 100s of miles.

I believe this form of torture is known as "the Death of a Thousand Pointless Minutiae." I don't mean to come off as a jerk here, but you make your players state whether they're bringing water to drink? Ouch.

dmart11 wrote:
so what do you stand and have you came up with a happy medium?

I must have found that happy medium, 'cause I've been GM'ing the same group with the same character's for about 8 years now (all human - 8th level CS Special Forces). Now granted that's not a solid 8 years, as a couple of the other guys have also taken the role of GM and ran a campaign.

In regards to my game, well the CS already pretty much has the best toys on the continent. Plus as a Special Forces unit they can request what they need for a given mission. The only trick is to keep the mission challenging to the player's. I make the player's use everything they got to succeed in their mission and they often get beat up in the process.

A lot of it has to do with the GM and his style. He should have a clear understanding of what the player's are wanting to get out of the game as well.

Talavar wrote:

lather wrote:Humans have to drink water, for example. Vehicles need fuel and to be maintained and repaired. There may not be spare parts for 100s of miles.

I believe this form of torture is known as "the Death of a Thousand Pointless Minutiae." I don't mean to come off as a jerk here, but you make your players state whether they're bringing water to drink? Ouch.

No problem.

I assume that if they have sufficient water then they remain sufficiently hydrated. I count water among essential gear and entire adventures have sprung up around finding it.

I think minutiae is making them count how many times they have pulled the trigger. Which I do, too.

Sounds like balance to me.

My goal is to make my GMs eyes bug out of his head!

Good role playing tends to do that. It is so rare sometimes.

yes

lather wrote:. Humans have to drink water, for example. Vehicles need fuel and to be maintained and repaired. There may not be spare parts for 100s of miles.

*lightbulb going on*
heeeeey I like that!
good ,very good.

DhAkael wrote:yes

from what I've read,I'm sure you're probably the heaviest of the handed of GMs,

dmart11 wrote:

lather wrote:. Humans have to drink water, for example. Vehicles need fuel and to be maintained and repaired. There may not be spare parts for 100s of miles.

*lightbulb going on*
heeeeey I like that!
good ,very good.

Thank you!

Glad I am not the only one that likes my ideas

I simply base my adventures off of what The Party can handle. There needs to be a 'gentlemans agreement' in Rifts. If the party makes a bunch of Rogue Scholars, then the adventures need to be tailored to that. Solutions to problems given suited to the party.

Likewise if they're a bunch of Cosmo knights, tailor things to that.

Yes, I know it's not realistic. In the real world, your opponnents do not depend on you. However, in good stories, they do. And don't we all game because we like stories better than real life?

lather wrote:

dmart11 wrote:

lather wrote:. Humans have to drink water, for example. Vehicles need fuel and to be maintained and repaired. There may not be spare parts for 100s of miles.

*lightbulb going on*
heeeeey I like that!
good ,very good.

Thank you!

Glad I am not the only one that likes my ideas

I like my players to eventually become as smarter if not SMARTER than myself, that's why I try to motivate players to use their heads,emotions and common sense.so if I can use little things like need for a "bathroom"
-8 penalty vs diarrhea, -5 penalty vs dehydration to make games more interesting then I'm all for it.
it may seem like dictator GMing but in the end you end up caring more about your character if you have a fair amount of micro managment to them.they become more than just text on a page to be rolled up like a dice game.thus players make smarter choices.

So it would be the players and GM not the game?

Cue Cypress Hill

Well... it depends what you think an adventure should be.

'heavy handed' is saying 'a rift opens, 10,000 mdc monsters pour out to kill you all'. Its gm fiat, throwing far more at the players than they can take.

RIFTS combat is about attrition. hit/miss, ablative armor (and even 1 pt over will kill you mega-dead), limited ammo.... and nasty evil things everywhere. there are always plenty of fights you cannot win against impossibel odds, if you want them (CS military, splurgoth of atlantis, mexico at night, inside the xictici hives, ect). But thats not what is fun for most people.

you can be mercenarys, or explorers. you can conquer towns, or help the common folk who lack your high-end tech and skills. you can travel the multiverse, or stay at home. but if the GM wants 'kill all PCs' and the players want 'teach these poor folk to read, and help the town grow ecenomicaly', then its gonna be an ugly mess.

the key thing is to talk to your players. decide in advance what type of game to run. and try to keep things reasonably realistic. no hordes of huge demons everywhere, especialy not near the CS. and fighting the CS dosent end well.

Recently, I've had a problem with players in my area. Power-gaming seems to be the theme often practiced with the locals. Of course, I have no issues with destroying the entire group because someone is a bit too strong. I've done it just recently in-fact (that group stopped playing with me... ) Truthfully, I'm fairly proud to stand-up against munchkinism with such brute resolve. I don't tolerate over-powered characters (often), and like to leave an impression of normality in Rifts.

The point?!? It's hard to find a good player group...