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Biggun817 wrote:Hi all....

I have just rolled Stats and created a new Headhunter as per the rules outlined in the Ultimate. I seem to be stuck on an issue of strength.
According to the rules a partial borg can attain a P.S. of 22 max on hand/arm bionics and then only if he has a reinforced skeleton and all bionic characters have bionic augmented strength.

How is it then that the list for damage changes, for augmented P.S. start well above the max possible for a headhunter (start at P.S. 24).

Because full conversion borgs who don't have robotic strength use those tabels. Also, juicers use that table as well, and can have PS's much greater than that. It was never intended for Headhunters.

My headhunter has, once everything has been bought and paid for (with 8k rolled and +10k as listed) a bionic P.S. of 15 and a P.P. of 14. Does that mean that his bionic limb is not augmented or am I missing something? Any help would be appreciated.

Correct, it is no stronger than an ordinary human limb of equivlent strength.

The advantage being, however, it IS more durable (harder to break), and you can hide weapons and other items inside of it with other cybernetics. nothing like a pop-out plasma cannon to surprise folk

the chart is a holdover from before full conversion borg strength was bionic, not robotic. robotic borg strength, i think began with the russia worldbook.

physically, a headhunter is weaker and slower than a crazy or juicer. but hes going to live for decades yet(unless he gets shot or eaten), and stay sane. its a tradeoff. where a headhunter outperforms craziers and juicers, however, is in endurance.

dont worry too much about your starting bionic stats- you will get better ones soon enough. long-run, you should (hopefully) get maxed out physical performance from your bionics.

you would probably be better to leave your PP at 10, and either get more PS (17+ can carry a lot more), or add some usefull cheap upgrades, or both.

little side note here...

put a headhunter with augmented bionic strength of 20 in the T-11 EBA(+6PS) or the CA-6EX EBA (+8 PS). punch enemy in face. enjoy

Biggun817 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Because full conversion borgs who don't have robotic strength use those tabels. Also, juicers use that table as well, and can have PS's much greater than that. It was never intended for Headhunters.

Correct, it is no stronger than an ordinary human limb of equivlent strength.

The advantage being, however, it IS more durable (harder to break), and you can hide weapons and other items inside of it with other cybernetics. nothing like a pop-out plasma cannon to surprise folk

Ok...that explains that I guess, thanks, but I still don't get it that the augmented strength table in the Utimate rule book lists crazies, partial and full borgs, cyborgs, juicers and headhunters as being able to attain augmented strength status. If what your saying is right ( and I'm not for one second saying its not) then the most my headhunter can hope to acheive, even if he gets bionic bones, is an extraordinary strength status.

Especially considering the augmented strength table doesn't start until P.S. 24 and the most he can attain is 22! So my question is this.....How can a Headhunter aquire augmented status and the ability to inflict Mega Damage with a power punch? Is it possible? [/u][/i]

Uh.... *thinks*

nothing in canon that comes to mind i'm afraid. have your GM invent something, or just get a talismen that casts Superhuman Strength on you.

If the Headhunter has Bionic Arms/hands, he can still do a MD Power Punch.
The Chart even says a Headhunter with Bionic Arms and Hands can...

Ignore the chart starting at PS 24
It should be PS 24 & Under anyways...

It is another typo/error I'm afraid.
Kinda like how the PP Bonus for the Juicers was left out. Things get by, by all the companies. It is nothing to worry over.

PS 24 & Under is what is should have been listed.

Hope this helps.
I wonder why Noone else noticed this simple answer...

TechnoGothic wrote:If the Headhunter has Bionic Arms/hands, he can still do a MD Power Punch.
The Chart even says a Headhunter with Bionic Arms and Hands can...

Ignore the chart starting at PS 24
It should be PS 24 & Under anyways...

It is another typo/error I'm afraid.
Kinda like how the PP Bonus for the Juicers was left out. Things get by, by all the companies. It is nothing to worry over.

PS 24 & Under is what is should have been listed.

Hope this helps.
I wonder why Noone else noticed this simple answer...

Because it's rediculous. Something with a PS of 1 can do MD? no...it starts at 24, not under.

Same reason why Supernatural PS dosn't do MD under 16

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

TechnoGothic wrote:If the Headhunter has Bionic Arms/hands, he can still do a MD Power Punch.
The Chart even says a Headhunter with Bionic Arms and Hands can...

Ignore the chart starting at PS 24
It should be PS 24 & Under anyways...

It is another typo/error I'm afraid.
Kinda like how the PP Bonus for the Juicers was left out. Things get by, by all the companies. It is nothing to worry over.

PS 24 & Under is what is should have been listed.

Hope this helps.
I wonder why Noone else noticed this simple answer...

Because it's rediculous. Something with a PS of 1 can do MD? no...it starts at 24, not under.

Same reason why Supernatural PS dosn't do MD under 16

the book clearly stats a Headhunter (with Two Bionic Arms/hands) can inflict Mega-Damage. But their Cap is 22.

Either we should Allow Augemented PS 16-24 to inflict ONE Mega-Damage on a Power Punch (Because it is "Expectional Range") or Change the Chart to start at PS 22...or...Up the Headhunter Max PS to 24 if Both Arms/hands are Bionic so they can inflict the Mega-Damage it say they can inflict.

When I wrote PB after RUE came out, I was told it was a typo..that it should have included 24 & Under...

You can Nerf your Headhunters if you wish. I won't.

TechnoGothic wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

TechnoGothic wrote:If the Headhunter has Bionic Arms/hands, he can still do a MD Power Punch.
The Chart even says a Headhunter with Bionic Arms and Hands can...

Ignore the chart starting at PS 24
It should be PS 24 & Under anyways...

It is another typo/error I'm afraid.
Kinda like how the PP Bonus for the Juicers was left out. Things get by, by all the companies. It is nothing to worry over.

PS 24 & Under is what is should have been listed.

Hope this helps.
I wonder why Noone else noticed this simple answer...

Because it's rediculous. Something with a PS of 1 can do MD? no...it starts at 24, not under.

Same reason why Supernatural PS dosn't do MD under 16

the book clearly stats a Headhunter (with Two Bionic Arms/hands) can inflict Mega-Damage. But their Cap is 22.

Either we should Allow Augemented PS 16-24 to inflict ONE Mega-Damage on a Power Punch (Because it is "Expectional Range") or Change the Chart to start at PS 22...or...Up the Headhunter Max PS to 24 if Both Arms/hands are Bionic so they can inflict the Mega-Damage it say they can inflict.

When I wrote PB after RUE came out, I was told it was a typo..that it should have included 24 & Under...

You can Nerf your Headhunters if you wish. I won't.

Ah. Well, if that's a typo you actually got FROM PALLADIUM that's different. Woulda been nice if you had said that in the first place

Biggun817 wrote:the book clearly stats a Headhunter (with Two Bionic Arms/hands) can inflict Mega-Damage. But their Cap is 22.

Either we should Allow Augemented PS 16-24 to inflict ONE Mega-Damage on a Power Punch (Because it is "Expectional Range") or Change the Chart to start at PS 22...or...Up the Headhunter Max PS to 24 if Both Arms/hands are Bionic so they can inflict the Mega-Damage it say they can inflict.


Ok...thats kinda sorted that one out (you can go back to your corners now guys )

So the next question is this:

What if the headhunter has only one bionic hand/arm? Would that exclude a powerpunch inflicting megadamage? Can you do a powerpunch with only one bionic hand/arm?? I don't recall it saying anywhere that both arms had to be bionic!

I would say one arm: no MD power punch, 2 arms yes (this is a gm call ) (AFAIK there is no canon reference to this issue)

How do you a MD power punch with a single bionic arm without having the shoulders / spine reinforced? Wouldn't the arm just rip itself out in that case, since the meat body would be the weakest part, or the path of least resistance?

Kelorin wrote:How do you a MD power punch with a single bionic arm without having the shoulders / spine reinforced? Wouldn't the arm just rip itself out in that case, since the meat body would be the weakest part, or the path of least resistance?

MD Weapons

Bionic Vibro-Blades/claws implants
Hydrolic Punching forearm/piledriver...

Kelorin wrote:How do you a MD power punch with a single bionic arm without having the shoulders / spine reinforced? Wouldn't the arm just rip itself out in that case, since the meat body would be the weakest part, or the path of least resistance?

I'm sorry, did you just attempt to apply real physics and real biology to Rifts? I'm afraid it doesn't work that way.

Physics has no place in Rifts, or, really, most of Palladium's games. Allow me to introduce one of my favourite examples: A bionic implant in a metal arm that allows you to shoot arcs of electricity at a flesh and blood opponent...without it arcing back into your metal arm(i.e. path of least resistance).

While that may be my favourite, the single best example of physics having no bearing on Rifts would be the Laser Bow from Spirit West that is 'built' upon the premise that the shooter pulls on a bowstring, and the force of pulling that drawstring turns little generators inside the bow that provides the weapon with enough electric energy to fire an MD laser blast. Yeah, roll that one around your head for a while.

The ineffible GM wrote:

Kelorin wrote:How do you a MD power punch with a single bionic arm without having the shoulders / spine reinforced? Wouldn't the arm just rip itself out in that case, since the meat body would be the weakest part, or the path of least resistance?

I'm sorry, did you just attempt to apply real physics and real biology to Rifts? I'm afraid it doesn't work that way.

Physics has no place in Rifts, or, really, most of Palladium's games. Allow me to introduce one of my favourite examples: A bionic implant in a metal arm that allows you to shoot arcs of electricity at a flesh and blood opponent...without it arcing back into your metal arm(i.e. path of least resistance).

While that may be my favourite, the single best example of physics having no bearing on Rifts would be the Laser Bow from Spirit West that is 'built' upon the premise that the shooter pulls on a bowstring, and the force of pulling that drawstring turns little generators inside the bow that provides the weapon with enough electric energy to fire an MD laser blast. Yeah, roll that one around your head for a while.

Gosh, I suppose I did. Mind you, I try to house rule some level of logic, plausibility, and realism into my games. Certain weapons and items that go beyond that plausibility barrier (the laser bow from Spirit West for example) are ignored from canon, and don't appear in my game world.

Also, I seem to recall, that even in Heroes Unlimited you needed to get the spine / shoulders reinforced to be able to put out damage beyond a certain limit. I don't have the book here with me now to confirm this.