Energy Disruption

[mobuttu]

Does Energy Disruption affect TW apparatus?

[asajosh]

i'd say no.
Energy Disruption is to Energy Weapons
as
Anti-Magic Cloud is to TW items
That's just how i roll

[Nekira Sudacne]

Yes, I think it should.

[Mouser13]

I would say it depends on the device. TW power Gen I think it would, but most others I would say no.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Does Energy Disruption affect TW apparatus?

It will disrupt any mechanics in TW stuff, but not the magic.

[asajosh]

Does Energy Disruption affect TW apparatus?

It will disrupt any mechanics in TW stuff, but not the magic.

no it won't, thats what Negate Mechanics is for.

[mobuttu]

Carefull reading makes me say "no". Invocation description from BoM states that affect electrical devices. So, AFAIK, I wouldn't say TW apparatus are electrical (they are PPE pumped instead). Do you agree?

[asajosh]

Carefull reading makes me say "no". Invocation description from BoM states that affect electrical devices. So, AFAIK, I wouldn't say TW apparatus are electrical (they are PPE pumped instead). Do you agree?

Exactly correct, even TW devices that use or generate electricity (lightning spells, etc) are NOT electrical devices. Strictly speaking they are still magical (running on PPE as you pointed out), not electrical.
I stand by my assertion that Energy Disruption should not effect TW devices.

[Killer Cyborg]

Carefull reading makes me say "no". Invocation description from BoM states that affect electrical devices. So, AFAIK, I wouldn't say TW apparatus are electrical (they are PPE pumped instead). Do you agree?

Exactly correct, even TW devices that use or generate electricity (lightning spells, etc) are NOT electrical devices. Strictly speaking they are still magical (running on PPE as you pointed out), not electrical.
I stand by my assertion that Energy Disruption should not effect TW devices.

If they're a device that uses electricity, then they're an electrical device.

[asajosh]

Carefull reading makes me say "no". Invocation description from BoM states that affect electrical devices. So, AFAIK, I wouldn't say TW apparatus are electrical (they are PPE pumped instead). Do you agree?

Exactly correct, even TW devices that use or generate electricity (lightning spells, etc) are NOT electrical devices. Strictly speaking they are still magical (running on PPE as you pointed out), not electrical.
I stand by my assertion that Energy Disruption should not effect TW devices.

If they're a device that uses electricity, then they're an electrical device.

Respectfully KC: TW devices use PPE, even if they produce electricity

[drewkitty ~..~]

Does Energy Disruption affect TW apparatus?

It will disrupt any mechanics in TW stuff, but not the magic.

no it won't, thats what Negate Mechanics is for.

*takes out a pen and crosses out 'mechanics' and writes in 'electrical bits'*

[Killer Cyborg]

Carefull reading makes me say "no". Invocation description from BoM states that affect electrical devices. So, AFAIK, I wouldn't say TW apparatus are electrical (they are PPE pumped instead). Do you agree?

Exactly correct, even TW devices that use or generate electricity (lightning spells, etc) are NOT electrical devices. Strictly speaking they are still magical (running on PPE as you pointed out), not electrical.
I stand by my assertion that Energy Disruption should not effect TW devices.

If they're a device that uses electricity, then they're an electrical device.

Respectfully KC: TW devices use PPE, even if they produce electricity

If you're talking about a TW Generator, sure.

But if electricity runs through the devices wires in order to produce the effect of the device, then it's an electrical device, no matter what produces that electricity.
That's why flashlights aren't "Lithium devices" (or whatever other stuff is in batteries that produces the electrical charge).

[asajosh]

Carefull reading makes me say "no". Invocation description from BoM states that affect electrical devices. So, AFAIK, I wouldn't say TW apparatus are electrical (they are PPE pumped instead). Do you agree?

Exactly correct, even TW devices that use or generate electricity (lightning spells, etc) are NOT electrical devices. Strictly speaking they are still magical (running on PPE as you pointed out), not electrical.
I stand by my assertion that Energy Disruption should not effect TW devices.

If they're a device that uses electricity, then they're an electrical device.

Respectfully KC: TW devices use PPE, even if they produce electricity

If you're talking about a TW Generator, sure.

But if electricity runs through the devices wires in order to produce the effect of the device, then it's an electrical device, no matter what produces that electricity.
That's why flashlights aren't "Lithium devices" (or whatever other stuff is in batteries that produces the electrical charge).

But we're not talking about flash lights, we're talking about a magical devise. An internal combustion engine produces electricity (in the form of an alternator), but it is not an electrical device. A device is generally classified by its power source. Thats the line I draw, if it runs on PPE, its a magical devise (and not subject ot negate mechanics or energy disruption. thats what anti-magic cloud is for), regardless of the effect it has.

There is no point in going back and forth, so I'll just smile and respectfully disagree with you on this one, KC.

[Killer Cyborg]

if electricity runs through the devices wires in order to produce the effect of the device, then it's an electrical device, no matter what produces that electricity.
That's why flashlights aren't "Lithium devices" (or whatever other stuff is in batteries that produces the electrical charge).

But we're not talking about flash lights, we're talking about a magical devise.

We could be talking about flashlights; the device in question was never specified.

An internal combustion engine produces electricity (in the form of an alternator), but it is not an electrical device.

Right, because it produces electricity.
On the other hand, the car's radio, headlights, etc., that use that electricity ARE electrical devices.

A device is generally classified by its power source.

So a flashlight IS an acid-device?

Thats the line I draw, if it runs on PPE, its a magical devise (and not subject ot negate mechanics or energy disruption. thats what anti-magic cloud is for), regardless of the effect it has.

It's not an either/or situation.
An electrical device can also be a magical device.

[asajosh]

if electricity runs through the devices wires in order to produce the effect of the device, then it's an electrical device, no matter what produces that electricity.
That's why flashlights aren't "Lithium devices" (or whatever other stuff is in batteries that produces the electrical charge).

But we're not talking about flash lights, we're talking about a magical devise.

We could be talking about flashlights; the device in question was never specified.

An internal combustion engine produces electricity (in the form of an alternator), but it is not an electrical device.

Right, because it produces electricity.
On the other hand, the car's radio, headlights, etc., that use that electricity ARE electrical devices.

A device is generally classified by its power source.

So a flashlight IS an acid-device?

Thats the line I draw, if it runs on PPE, its a magical devise (and not subject ot negate mechanics or energy disruption. thats what anti-magic cloud is for), regardless of the effect it has.

It's not an either/or situation.
An electrical device can also be a magical device.

Read the spell again, its VERY anti-tech.
Its the magical equivalent of an EMP, and EMP's don't stop magic.
For 12 PPE, I don't think its intended to be as flexible as you seem to.

[Killer Cyborg]

Read the spell again, its VERY anti-tech.
Its the magical equivalent of an EMP, and EMP's don't stop magic.
For 12 PPE, I don't think its intended to be as flexible as you seem to.

EMPs knock out electricity, so if the device uses electricity, the device is affected by the spell.

[asajosh]

Read the spell again, its VERY anti-tech.
Its the magical equivalent of an EMP, and EMP's don't stop magic.
For 12 PPE, I don't think its intended to be as flexible as you seem to.

EMPs knock out electricity, so if the device uses electricity, the device is affected by the spell.

And there's the rub, I draw a distinction between USING electricity as opposed to creating it via PPE expenditure. But that's just where you and I differ. Que sera sera.

[Killer Cyborg]

Read the spell again, its VERY anti-tech.
Its the magical equivalent of an EMP, and EMP's don't stop magic.
For 12 PPE, I don't think its intended to be as flexible as you seem to.

EMPs knock out electricity, so if the device uses electricity, the device is affected by the spell.

And there's the rub, I draw a distinction between USING electricity as opposed to creating it via PPE expenditure. But that's just where you and I differ. Que sera sera.

Why would it make a difference?
The spell takes out electricity.
If the device USES electricity, and that electricity is disrupted, how could the device continue to function?
And why would it matter how the electricity is created?

[asajosh]

Read the spell again, its VERY anti-tech.
Its the magical equivalent of an EMP, and EMP's don't stop magic.
For 12 PPE, I don't think its intended to be as flexible as you seem to.

EMPs knock out electricity, so if the device uses electricity, the device is affected by the spell.

And there's the rub, I draw a distinction between USING electricity as opposed to creating it via PPE expenditure. But that's just where you and I differ. Que sera sera.

Why would it make a difference?
The spell takes out electricity.
If the device USES electricity, and that electricity is disrupted, how could the device continue to function?
And why would it matter how the electricity is created?

The diference, to my mind and reading back a few others as well, is that TW devices are magical devices powered by PPE. To hamper them you need to use Anti-Magic Cloud and the like.
In game terms, there are spells desigend to disrupt technology and other spells designed to disrupt magic (and TW devices). This is a spell to disrupt technology. Simple as that.

[Killer Cyborg]

In game terms, there are spells desigend to disrupt technology and other spells designed to disrupt magic (and TW devices). This is a spell to disrupt technology. Simple as that.

Except:
1. That seems like a pretty random assumption.
2. Techno-Wizardry is a blend of technology and magic.
It's a mix of both, and when appropriate it's affected by both.

[asajosh]

In game terms, there are spells desigend to disrupt technology and other spells designed to disrupt magic (and TW devices). This is a spell to disrupt technology. Simple as that.

Except:
1. That seems like a pretty random assumption.
2. Techno-Wizardry is a blend of technology and magic.
It's a mix of both, and when appropriate it's affected by both.

1. Random? Ahem, first sentence in the spell description itself: "A particularly useful magic in a tech environment," Then the examples of all the things it effects: "...this includes normal automobiles, computers, radios, surveilance cameras, snesors, appliances, entire fuse boxes, batteries, electronic alarm systems, etc." seems pretty anti-tech to me...

2. The "technology" is often just the form, or a "framework" to give spells function. How techno is a sword? yet there are dozens of canon TW sword variants (electrical ones too).

[asajosh]

Does Energy Disruption affect TW apparatus?

It will disrupt any mechanics in TW stuff, but not the magic.

no it won't, thats what Negate Mechanics is for.

*takes out a pen and crosses out 'mechanics' and writes in 'electrical bits'*

Electrical Bits, how did I miss thiss!? Classic! Im gonna use this next time i go to Radio Shack ("Scuse me kind clerk, I've come to acuire some various gauges of wiring, solder, and a sack full of various electrical bits.")

Wasn't trying to be snarky before with you, Drew, I honestly thought you meant mechanical parts.

Brings up another point tho, TW devices have the "electrical bits" removed and replaced with wire and gems. Not really much of an "electrical" device is left.

[Killer Cyborg]

In game terms, there are spells desigend to disrupt technology and other spells designed to disrupt magic (and TW devices). This is a spell to disrupt technology. Simple as that.

Except:
1. That seems like a pretty random assumption.
2. Techno-Wizardry is a blend of technology and magic.
It's a mix of both, and when appropriate it's affected by both.

1. Random? Ahem, first sentence in the spell description itself: "A particularly useful magic in a tech environment," Then the examples of all the things it effects: "...this includes normal automobiles, computers, radios, surveilance cameras, snesors, appliances, entire fuse boxes, batteries, electronic alarm systems, etc." seems pretty anti-tech to me...

Because it targets electricity, and tech tends to use electricty.
The assumption that I was talking about is that the spell somehow is not supposed to work on magic devices. That the EMP effect somehow decides, "Whoops! This isn't a tech device; I'd better move on...", and that that's the way the spell is supposed to work.

The use of the word "normal" is simply there because the spell doesn't work on military vehicles, as is mentioned at the end of the spell description.
There is no mention of the spell not working on TW automobiles.

2. The "technology" is often just the form, or a "framework" to give spells function. How techno is a sword? yet there are dozens of canon TW sword variants (electrical ones too).

Not swords that use electricity to function, so the spell wouldn't have any effect on a TW sword.

How techno is a laser rifle? A walkman? A flashlight? An automobile? A radio? An electric engine?

I'll answer for you: Very.
And these are all examples of possible TW devices.

You could argue that a TW device doesn't use electricity at all anymore, since the workings aren't fully described, but you cannot logically argue that a device that uses electricity is not an "electrical device", and you cannot logically argue that a magical device that uses electricity is not also an electrical device.
Or that it's somehow immune to the spell.

[asajosh]

In game terms, there are spells desigend to disrupt technology and other spells designed to disrupt magic (and TW devices). This is a spell to disrupt technology. Simple as that.

Except:
1. That seems like a pretty random assumption.
2. Techno-Wizardry is a blend of technology and magic.
It's a mix of both, and when appropriate it's affected by both.

1. Random? Ahem, first sentence in the spell description itself: "A particularly useful magic in a tech environment," Then the examples of all the things it effects: "...this includes normal automobiles, computers, radios, surveilance cameras, snesors, appliances, entire fuse boxes, batteries, electronic alarm systems, etc." seems pretty anti-tech to me...

Because it targets electricity, and tech tends to use electricty.
The assumption that I was talking about is that the spell somehow is not supposed to work on magic devices. That the EMP effect somehow decides, "Whoops! This isn't a tech device; I'd better move on...", and that that's the way the spell is supposed to work.

The use of the word "normal" is simply there because the spell doesn't work on military vehicles, as is mentioned at the end of the spell description.
There is no mention of the spell not working on TW automobiles.

2. The "technology" is often just the form, or a "framework" to give spells function. How techno is a sword? yet there are dozens of canon TW sword variants (electrical ones too).

Not swords that use electricity to function, so the spell wouldn't have any effect on a TW sword.

How techno is a laser rifle? A walkman? A flashlight? An automobile? A radio? An electric engine?

I'll answer for you: Very.
And these are all examples of possible TW devices.

You could argue that a TW device doesn't use electricity at all anymore, since the workings aren't fully described, but you cannot logically argue that a device that uses electricity is not an "electrical device", and you cannot logically argue that a magical device that uses electricity is not also an electrical device.
Or that it's somehow immune to the spell.

Ya got me, normal was meant as non-hardened, my bad
moving on, those devices you mentioned, yes very tech. But once they have their guts ripped out and replaced with gems, they ain't tech, they are magic. Simple as that.
And another thing, in your opinion an lighting TW sword works when hit with Energy Disruption? Am I reading that right? If so, explain.

And once again:
Magical devices use PPE no matter what their effect, even if tht effect is to create electricity.
There is a difference between the fuel and the product.

[Killer Cyborg]

Ya got me, normal was meant as non-hardened, my bad
moving on, those devices you mentioned, yes very tech. But once they have their guts ripped out and replaced with gems, they ain't tech, they are magic. Simple as that.

They're tech that's powered, at least in part, by magic.

That's why when converting a device to run off PPE, the techno-wizards rip out the power source, but only modify the existing electrical system.

And another thing, in your opinion an lighting TW sword works when hit with Energy Disruption? Am I reading that right? If so, explain.

Not sure what a "lightning TW sword" is, but I'll give it a shot.
If the devices requires electricity to function, then it could be disrupted.
If the device produces electricity, then it could not.

And once again:
Magical devices use PPE no matter what their effect, even if tht effect is to create electricity.
There is a difference between the fuel and the product.

Of course.
Which is why I have already said as much.
For example, pointing out that a TW Generator, which produces electricity, but does not use it, would not be affected by the spell.

[asajosh]

You could argue that a TW device doesn't use electricity at all anymore, since the workings aren't fully described, but you cannot logically argue that a device that uses electricity is not an "electrical device", and you cannot logically argue that a magical device that uses electricity is not also an electrical device.
Or that it's somehow immune to the spell.

Never have I said that a device that uses electricity is not an electrical device. Not once.
And Magical devices (specifically TW, not rune or anything else) run on PPE, not electricity, that has been my argument all along and plainly posted several times.

[Killer Cyborg]

You could argue that a TW device doesn't use electricity at all anymore, since the workings aren't fully described, but you cannot logically argue that a device that uses electricity is not an "electrical device", and you cannot logically argue that a magical device that uses electricity is not also an electrical device.
Or that it's somehow immune to the spell.

Never have I said that a device that uses electricity is not an electrical device. Not once.

Then why on Earth have you been arguing with me?

And Magical devices (specifically TW, not rune or anything else) run on PPE, not electricity, that has been my argument all along and plainly posted several times.

And I keep pointing out that the two are NOT mutually exclusive.
There are any number of TW devices that may convert the incoming PPE into electricity, then use electricity to power the device.

[asajosh]

TW devices are powered by PPE. Its not "concentrate PPE, slap in an E-Clip" for a reason. The act of flipping a switch or pulling a trigger is not always needed. Pure Magic.

TW Lightning Sword is the same as the flaming sword on RUE pg 137, substituting lightning spells for fire. I'll paw thru all the canon TW swords later.

Quote Killer Cyborg:
"If the device produces electricity, then it could not (be affected by Energy Disruption)."

That's what I've been plainly saying all along since my first post. Jeez the original poster speaks english as a second language and he got it right off. Glad to see you've come around.

[asajosh]

Then why on Earth have you been arguing with me?

I didn't start out arguing with you, just stating a different (some might say more correct) interpretation of a spell write up.
I admit I'm a little heated now that you have gone beyond mis-quoting me to make some point, but you have made up something for me to say so you can conter-point it.

[Killer Cyborg]

TW devices are powered by PPE. Its not "concentrate PPE, slap in an E-Clip" for a reason. The act of flipping a switch or pulling a trigger is not always needed. Pure Magic.

Only it's not pure magic.

RUE 126
"They are men of magic who have learned to combine magic with technology."

"The need for other energy sources is greatly reduced (not quite completely eliminated)."

RUE 129
"Magic and science working together, symbiotically, each supporting and improving upon the other to create something that defies convention."

"Any number of modifications to technology can be made...."

"A techno-wizard might build an engine based on conventional concepts, but add in spells like Superhuman Strength to grant a 4-cylinder engine the power of an 8-cylinder engine when activated, or Superhuman Speed to increase the vehicle's overall speed and performance."

"It's called Techno-Wizardry for a reason. And that reason is the blending of magic and tech."

RUE 130
"The guidelines provide insight into the process of linking spells and technology through Techno-Wizardry."

RUE 132
"If the Techno-Wizard is building a souped-up dune buggy, the first skill will be for Automotive Mechanics (or Mechanical Engineer). The next would be a Basic Electronics skill roll, to make sure that the vehicle's electrical system still works."

TW Lightning Sword is the same as the flaming sword on RUE pg 137, substituting lightning spells for fire. I'll paw thru all the canon TW swords later.

Already addressed in any case.

Quote Killer Cyborg:
"If the device produces electricity, then it could not (be affected by Energy Disruption)."

That's what I've been plainly saying all along since my first post. Jeez the original poster speaks english as a second language and he got it right off. Glad to see you've come around.

I haven't come around; I have maintained that position since my first post.

If you agree that TW devices that use electricity can be disrupted by the spell, then we've been arguing over nothing.

[Killer Cyborg]

Then why on Earth have you been arguing with me?

I didn't start out arguing with you, just stating a different (some might say more correct) interpretation of a spell write up.
I admit I'm a little heated now that you have gone beyond mis-quoting me to make some point, but you have made up something for me to say so you can conter-point it.

Not at all.

I said that if a TW device uses electricity, then it can be disrupted.
You responded by saying that if a TW device produces electricity, then it cannot.
I agreed, if you're talking about a TW generator, "But if electricity runs through the devices wires in order to produce the effect of the device, then it's an electrical device, no matter what produces that electricity.
That's why flashlights aren't "Lithium devices" (or whatever other stuff is in batteries that produces the electrical charge)."

You responded by saying, "But we're not talking about flash lights, we're talking about a magical devise. "

I pointed out that there are TW Flashlights, and you said, "Read the spell again, its VERY anti-tech.
Its the magical equivalent of an EMP, and EMP's don't stop magic.
For 12 PPE, I don't think its intended to be as flexible as you seem to."

Which indicates that you don't think that the spell would work on a TW Flashlight, even if it uses electricity, because TW devices are Magic, not Tech.

I'm not making up arguments for you; I'm trying to make sense of what you've been posting.

[asajosh]

All yer examples are real nice and all, but there's TW that mods things and TW builds from scratch. Some mods are built into armor or even cloting.
We could bicker over minutia till the cows come home and its sleep time soon.

Here's the original post.

Does Energy Disruption affect TW apparatus?

The question is simple and I gave a simple yes or no answer. Some people keep things streamlined. I myself, and I sense KC, are detail nuts to one degree or another.

So here is a slightly more in depth answer:
If the device in question uses PPE to create electricity (like a weapon), then no.
If the device is a more of a hybrid of and has non magical components that are electrical, then those parts may be affected. Whew.
In short... maybe

Oh KC, take nothing I say personally (except that makinging up things pepole say, might wanna watch that), you and I see eye to eye generally, but ya can't agree with everyone all the time.

My way works for me (and others), I stand by it. Your way works for you (and at least one more back there). Rock on. Nice sparring with ya, no hard feelings.

[asajosh]

Which indicates that you don't think that the spell would work on a TW Flashlight, even if it uses electricity, because TW devices are Magic, not Tech.

Why would a TW flashlight use electricity? Globe of Daylight, Lantern Light those get the job done, no electricity needed.

Tell us what YOU think, not what I think. My posts are perfectly clear, again the ESL guy got it. Don't read things into what i post. Its easier that way. If you don't understand what I say, ask/ I'm here to help

[mobuttu]

After reading all the answers I think I got it!

- As TW apparatus are usually PPE pumped with no electricity circulating in their inner workings, then ED won't affect them (e.g. firebolt gun).
- If there is a TW device that for any reason produce, storage or use electricity to function (e.g. TW generator, Lighting sword, etc.) then ED stops that part/effect of the TW. I mean, imagine a TW vehicle (non-military) with an electrical generator tied to it and a battery to storage the electricity used for recharging normal E-Clips. With ED you could knock out these electrical devices but not the whole vehicle, as it is PPE pumped.

Q.

[asajosh]

After reading all the answers I think I got it!

- As TW apparatus are usually PPE pumped with no electricity circulating in their inner workings, then ED won't affect them (e.g. firebolt gun).
- If there is a TW device that for any reason produce, storage or use electricity to function (e.g. TW generator, Lighting sword, etc.) then ED stops that part/effect of the TW. I mean, imagine a TW vehicle (non-military) with an electrical generator tied to it and a battery to storage the electricity used for recharging normal E-Clips. With ED you could knock out these electrical devices but not the whole vehicle, as it is PPE pumped.

Q.

Sounds good to me, I expand my bounderies a little. Perfecto!

[Killer Cyborg]

Which indicates that you don't think that the spell would work on a TW Flashlight, even if it uses electricity, because TW devices are Magic, not Tech.

Why would a TW flashlight use electricity? Globe of Daylight, Lantern Light those get the job done, no electricity needed.

Reread the original Rifts book description of Techno-Wizardry, specifically the section on converting technology to run off of PPE.

Tell us what YOU think, not what I think.

I didn't tell you what you thought, just what you said.
Since you didn't seem to know.

My posts are perfectly clear, again the ESL guy got it.

The latter is not evidence for the former.
Quite possibly even evidence against.

Don't read things into what i post. Its easier that way. If you don't understand what I say, ask/ I'm here to help

I understood what you said.
Just not what you meant.

[Killer Cyborg]

After reading all the answers I think I got it!

- As TW apparatus are usually PPE pumped with no electricity circulating in their inner workings, then ED won't affect them (e.g. firebolt gun).
- If there is a TW device that for any reason produce, storage or use electricity to function (e.g. TW generator, Lighting sword, etc.) then ED stops that part/effect of the TW. I mean, imagine a TW vehicle (non-military) with an electrical generator tied to it and a battery to storage the electricity used for recharging normal E-Clips. With ED you could knock out these electrical devices but not the whole vehicle, as it is PPE pumped.

Q.

Sounds good to me, I expand my bounderies a little. Perfecto!

That's what I've been saying all along.

[asajosh]

After reading all the answers I think I got it!

- As TW apparatus are usually PPE pumped with no electricity circulating in their inner workings, then ED won't affect them (e.g. firebolt gun).
- If there is a TW device that for any reason produce, storage or use electricity to function (e.g. TW generator, Lighting sword, etc.) then ED stops that part/effect of the TW. I mean, imagine a TW vehicle (non-military) with an electrical generator tied to it and a battery to storage the electricity used for recharging normal E-Clips. With ED you could knock out these electrical devices but not the whole vehicle, as it is PPE pumped.

Q.

Sounds good to me, I expand my bounderies a little. Perfecto!

That's what I've been saying all along.

Thats what you were saying in the end, not all along. If it was all along, perhaps take your own advice and work on clarity versus volume. Well, as long as we're all on the same page now. Please in future debates stick with one version of rifts, either RMB or UE, not really kosher to throw two sets of rules at a fella. No hard feelings KC.

[Killer Cyborg]

After reading all the answers I think I got it!

- As TW apparatus are usually PPE pumped with no electricity circulating in their inner workings, then ED won't affect them (e.g. firebolt gun).
- If there is a TW device that for any reason produce, storage or use electricity to function (e.g. TW generator, Lighting sword, etc.) then ED stops that part/effect of the TW. I mean, imagine a TW vehicle (non-military) with an electrical generator tied to it and a battery to storage the electricity used for recharging normal E-Clips. With ED you could knock out these electrical devices but not the whole vehicle, as it is PPE pumped.

Q.

Sounds good to me, I expand my bounderies a little. Perfecto!

That's what I've been saying all along.

Thats what you were saying in the end, not all along. If it was all along, perhaps take your own advice and work on clarity versus volume. Well, as long as we're all on the same page now.

"If they're a device that uses electricity, then they're an electrical device." seems pretty darned clear to me.

As does:
"if electricity runs through the devices wires in order to produce the effect of the device, then it's an electrical device, no matter what produces that electricity. "

In fact, it doesn't just seem clear; it IS clear.

Please in future debates stick with one version of rifts, either RMB or UE, not really kosher to throw two sets of rules at a fella. No hard feelings KC.

It's not exactly two sets of rules.
RUE doesn't mention the PPE Conversion aspect of technowizardry, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's no longer a function of technowizardry.

And TW devices in both sets of rules include tech devices (armor, vehicles, etc) with TW modifications on them.

[asajosh]

After reading all the answers I think I got it!

- As TW apparatus are usually PPE pumped with no electricity circulating in their inner workings, then ED won't affect them (e.g. firebolt gun).
- If there is a TW device that for any reason produce, storage or use electricity to function (e.g. TW generator, Lighting sword, etc.) then ED stops that part/effect of the TW. I mean, imagine a TW vehicle (non-military) with an electrical generator tied to it and a battery to storage the electricity used for recharging normal E-Clips. With ED you could knock out these electrical devices but not the whole vehicle, as it is PPE pumped.

Q.

Sounds good to me, I expand my bounderies a little. Perfecto!

That's what I've been saying all along.

Thats what you were saying in the end, not all along. If it was all along, perhaps take your own advice and work on clarity versus volume. Well, as long as we're all on the same page now.

"If they're a device that uses electricity, then they're an electrical device." seems pretty darned clear to me.

As does:
"if electricity runs through the devices wires in order to produce the effect of the device, then it's an electrical device, no matter what produces that electricity. "

In fact, it doesn't just seem clear; it IS clear.

Please in future debates stick with one version of rifts, either RMB or UE, not really kosher to throw two sets of rules at a fella. No hard feelings KC.

It's not exactly two sets of rules.
RUE doesn't mention the PPE Conversion aspect of technowizardry, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's no longer a function of technowizardry.

And TW devices in both sets of rules include tech devices (armor, vehicles, etc) with TW modifications on them.

Im done with this non sense. The poster is satisfied with my answer, good enough for me. You can continue to argue this if you like, considering you make up things that others have said then argue that, it should be no prob for ya. Enjoy

[Killer Cyborg]

You can continue to argue this if you like, considering you make up things that others have said then argue that, it should be no prob for ya.

You're projecting again.