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Zuari wrote:Got to love those two part questions:
1) Can any spell caster learn to use wards, symbol, and circles or are these magic excusive to the Diabolist and Summoners.
2) If a caster can learn them would the PPE cost change.

They are exclusive. No other class can learn them.

To the second part, irrelevant, they can't use them in the first place.

Zuari wrote:Got to love those two part questions:
1) Can any spell caster learn to use wards, symbol, and circles or are these magic excusive to the Diabolist and Summoners.
2) If a caster can learn them would the PPE cost change.

1) Only if they change class to Diabolist can they use magic runes as Diabolist do.
2) No change, becasue they would be using the runes normaly. See the above answer as to why.

Nazca Line Maker from WB9 can also learn and use use wards, symbol, and circles. Also, anyone who has passed the Yggdrasil World Tree gift of Knowledge test.

Zuari wrote:Got to love those two part questions:
1) Can any spell caster learn to use wards, symbol, and circles or are these magic excusive to the Diabolist and Summoners.
2) If a caster can learn them would the PPE cost change.

1. Class exclusive to them at char creation. But if you playing, there is no reason why a wizard cannot learn wards or circles.
2. Nope, they are not like Necromancy.

Zuari wrote:Ok, I understand the not using wards, but there are two circles list in normal spell (protect circle simple and superior). I Guess I was hope Ley Line walker and shifter could learn the other circles as well.

Think of them as emulators... they're like real circles, but not. They're spells designed to do things like circle magic, but as spells.

Mazorrath wrote:Also, anyone who has passed the Yggdrasil World Tree gift of Knowledge test.

Not anyone, just Odin (and even he can only use wards, not circles).

Others gain the ability to recognize and identify wards and circles, but not create them (except for the spell versions).

Tinker Dragoon wrote:

Mazorrath wrote:Also, anyone who has passed the Yggdrasil World Tree gift of Knowledge test.

Not anyone, just Odin (and even he can only use wards, not circles).

Others gain the ability to recognize and identify wards and circles, but not create them (except for the spell versions).

Oh, here we go again...As debated many many times before, Yggdrasil gift of knowledge provides complete understanding works and ALL spells equal to current level (and Yes, that means from warlock to nightbane spells to all other spells......)

Well all be, Tinker Dragoon is right on the circles. Just found my old notes. But then again, at high enough levels you could just create a spell version of the circles.

Hats off to Tinker Dragoon.

Mazorrath wrote:

Tinker Dragoon wrote:

Mazorrath wrote:Also, anyone who has passed the Yggdrasil World Tree gift of Knowledge test.

Not anyone, just Odin (and even he can only use wards, not circles).

Others gain the ability to recognize and identify wards and circles, but not create them (except for the spell versions).

Oh, here we go again...As debated many many times before, Yggdrasil gift of knowledge provides complete understanding works and ALL spells equal to current level (and Yes, that means from warlock to nightbane spells to all other spells......)

Well all be, Tinker Dragoon is right on the circles. Just found my old notes. But then again, at high enough levels you could just create a spell version of the circles.

Hats off to Tinker Dragoon.

Yggdrasil doesn't grant the use of Warlock spells either (not surprising, considering that they're essentially priestly powers granted by elemental intelligences). Standard Invocations (aka "Spell Magic"), Temporal Magic, and Necromancy only.

I could have sworn there was some note somewhere that Shifters could learn a small number of circles, but I've not been able to find it.

Tinker Dragoon wrote:

Mazorrath wrote:

Tinker Dragoon wrote:

Mazorrath wrote:Also, anyone who has passed the Yggdrasil World Tree gift of Knowledge test.

Not anyone, just Odin (and even he can only use wards, not circles).

Others gain the ability to recognize and identify wards and circles, but not create them (except for the spell versions).

Oh, here we go again...As debated many many times before, Yggdrasil gift of knowledge provides complete understanding works and ALL spells equal to current level (and Yes, that means from warlock to nightbane spells to all other spells......)

Well all be, Tinker Dragoon is right on the circles. Just found my old notes. But then again, at high enough levels you could just create a spell version of the circles.

Hats off to Tinker Dragoon.

Yggdrasil doesn't grant the use of Warlock spells either (not surprising, considering that they're essentially priestly powers granted by elemental intelligences). Standard Invocations (aka "Spell Magic"), Temporal Magic, and Necromancy only.

I could have sworn there was some note somewhere that Shifters could learn a small number of circles, but I've not been able to find it.

Fine thats put it another way. With the complete understand of magic the being could create warlock like spells ( use nightbane through the looking glass)...This effectively grants over time (research and level restrictions) All spell knowledge. *** Note this may cause game unbalance but I also increased research cost to 1d4 million credits per level of spell***

As for the Shifter I thought there was mention of protection and (maybe summoning) circles in Rifter some time ago. Off hand I know in DB7 there is an expanded Shifter. I still prefer the Nazca Line Maker (but thats just me).

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(edit) While looking for Shifter information I found something...we both forgot a class. However, becoming a Splugorth Witch optional PC is really going to the extreme to have circle knowledge.

I haven't read the description recently, but can't LLWs learn ANY magic? They're "Masters of Magic" or something? If I'm wrong, i'm sorry, but that was my understanding that the only restriction was finding someone who'll teach you.

Crazy Lou wrote:I haven't read the description recently, but can't LLWs learn ANY magic? They're "Masters of Magic" or something? If I'm wrong, i'm sorry, but that was my understanding that the only restriction was finding someone who'll teach you.

No, they can learn any INVOCATIONAL magic. This includes alien magic, can include spells that are invocation but from a more specialized school in some cases.

But Wards and Summoners Circles are not invocations at all. Nor are warlock magic.

dracolych wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Zuari wrote:Ok, I understand the not using wards, but there are two circles list in normal spell (protect circle simple and superior). I Guess I was hope Ley Line walker and shifter could learn the other circles as well.

Think of them as emulators... they're like real circles, but not. They're spells designed to do things like circle magic, but as spells.

Kinda like the spell Wards (think like 11th or 12 lvl). Creates wards, but no material component, and can create wards that Diabolist has no access to, like Curse.

Right.

dracolych wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Crazy Lou wrote:I haven't read the description recently, but can't LLWs learn ANY magic? They're "Masters of Magic" or something? If I'm wrong, i'm sorry, but that was my understanding that the only restriction was finding someone who'll teach you.

No, they can learn any INVOCATIONAL magic. This includes alien magic, can include spells that are invocation but from a more specialized school in some cases.

But Wards and Summoners Circles are not invocations at all. Nor are warlock magic.

Wasn't there something in SA2 about them being able to learn certain Nazcan lines, too?

Any magic OCC can learn Nazcan line magic.

dracolych wrote:I wouldn't get too down about it, though.

If the Wards spell can pull off effects that you can't pull off with regular wards, and a non-Power circle can summon a particular type of dragon, what do you think a really dedicated and determined Shifter could summon?

The same thing a really dedicated Summoner can. Anything.

Shadow Of Solace wrote:While were discussing Summoner, Ive got a character who is attempting to hire scribes to make his circles for him, giving them a template...

Now i would assume that shouldn't work, because... well... they arent a summoner, and shouldnt be able to.

Well, I'm not certain that a summoner has to draw the circles with his own hand, BUT, the summoner (or possibly any summoner) has to carefully intone the power words, place the components in their proper places, and infuse the circle with P.P.E., all of which must be done as the circle is being created. Additionally, you're going to need to make them on fairly large sheets of paper for them to be at all useful.