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Just thought I'd share this and see what people think. I don't think it should be impossible to prowl in all power armor so here is a possible rule for it:

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Prowling in Power Armor:

For every 50 MDC of the main body, -5% to prowl (round up or down to nearest fraction of 50 MDC, so 225MDC is 250, 220MDC is 200)
Add an addition -5%

PA with more than 300 MDC main body CANNOT prowl.
Armor that has large backpack/flying attachments with wings (SAMAS) cannot prowl unless the attachments are removed, small attachments (like the Terrain Hopper's backpack) add an additional -10%.

Examples:
T-21 Terrain Hopper (170 Main) = -15 -5 -10 = -30% Prowl
T-C20 Terrain Hopper (200 Main) = -20 -5 -10 = -35% Prowl
T-31 Super Trooper (250 Main) = -25 -5 = -30% Prowl
Old Style SAMAS (250 Main) = Cannot Prowl
Old Style SAMAS /w flying pack/wings ejected = -25 -5 = -30% Prowl

The same modifier can be added to other feats like Acrobatics/Gymnastics and skills that require mobility/tactile sensitivity.
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Sound fair? Cool?

U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:Prowling in power armor as far as I know has been left a mystery. their are a few suits that state in their description that they can be prowled in like the "swordsman" from Japan

Exactly, why do you think I posted this?

I also don't agree with some of those suites of power armor from Japan that allow prowl, mainly because they don't even offer a prowl penalty which suggests full prowl - little far fetched. I'd give those "stealthy" power armors only half the penalty I'd give normally.

Phadeout wrote:Sound fair? Cool?

No.

Actually, it's not bad, but it's nowhere near great.

The thing is, why should power armor give a penalty to prowl?
Well, there's the size.
And the weight.
And the bulk.
And the odd shapes.

All of which would apply to many demons and monsters as well.
A 20' long dragon hatchling, for example.

Well according to Rifts Japan, any light PA suit under 9 feet tall can prowl. You basically use your character's Prowl skill and suffer a -50% penalty.

This is on page 132 of Rifts Japan.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Well according to Rifts Japan, any light PA suit under 9 feet tall can prowl. You basically use your character's Prowl skill and suffer a -50% penalty.

This is on page 132 of Rifts Japan.

A lot of Rifts Japan doesn't make sense.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Well according to Rifts Japan, any light PA suit under 9 feet tall can prowl. You basically use your character's Prowl skill and suffer a -50% penalty.

This is on page 132 of Rifts Japan.

A lot of Rifts Japan doesn't make sense.

Well like Mack's sigline says (or use to say)

"It's Rifts, it doesn't have to make sense."

Dustin Fireblade wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Well according to Rifts Japan, any light PA suit under 9 feet tall can prowl. You basically use your character's Prowl skill and suffer a -50% penalty.

This is on page 132 of Rifts Japan.

A lot of Rifts Japan doesn't make sense.

Well like Mack's sigline says (or use to say)

"It's Rifts, it doesn't have to make sense."

Nothing has to make sense.
It's just better when it does.

Saying "It's Rifts, it doesn't have to make sense" is kind of like saying,
"It's Rifts; it doesn't have to be good."

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Phadeout wrote:Sound fair? Cool?

No.

Actually, it's not bad, but it's nowhere near great.

The thing is, why should power armor give a penalty to prowl?
Well, there's the size.
And the weight.
And the bulk.
And the odd shapes.

All of which would apply to many demons and monsters as well.
A 20' long dragon hatchling, for example.

You got a better idea other than making an exhaustive list of every PA out there? It's better than Japan's -50% for everything Under 9 Feet and everything above can't Prowl.

I'm basing the rules I listed off of MDC Body Armor. Heavier Armor is harder to prowl in, as is bulkier body armor, and body armor designed for stealth is easier to prowl in. Look at the Super Heavy Cyborg Armor, no prowl <---That's why anything over 300 MD is too much to prowl in - figured it was a good base.

Also, adding modifiers for Terrain and Circumstances would be another topic.

There is no penalty to prowling in power armor.

PA and prowling

these 2 entities should NEVER be allowed to co-exist with each other.

the simple reason is this ....

it is flippin ARMOUR

thus it is NOT a part of the body ... not is it a part of the clothing one wears.

Killer Cyborg was correct in appliying a penalty of -50% .. personally .. i would make it higher .. try at a -75%

why?

simple ...

it takes TIME and KNOWLEDGE to move thru various enviournments to successfully achieve the ability to move SILENTLY in something other than the personal clothing you wear.

heck even demin makes a noise but polyester is worse when walking ... and this is clothing we wear nowadays ... power armour includes pistols and hydrolics and a variety of other mechanical devices .. ALL of which make noise.

thus IF the power armour is granted NO penalty ... then the people that MUST dectect the PA moving about [hopefully quietly] would be at a HIGH bonus .. like ... +50%

just something to think about .. but hey .. I'M not the GM in question

Phadeout wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Phadeout wrote:Sound fair? Cool?

No.

Actually, it's not bad, but it's nowhere near great.

The thing is, why should power armor give a penalty to prowl?
Well, there's the size.
And the weight.
And the bulk.
And the odd shapes.

All of which would apply to many demons and monsters as well.
A 20' long dragon hatchling, for example.

You got a better idea other than making an exhaustive list of every PA out there? It's better than Japan's -50% for everything Under 9 Feet and everything above can't Prowl.

I'm basing the rules I listed off of MDC Body Armor. Heavier Armor is harder to prowl in, as is bulkier body armor, and body armor designed for stealth is easier to prowl in. Look at the Super Heavy Cyborg Armor, no prowl <---That's why anything over 300 MD is too much to prowl in - figured it was a good base.

Also, adding modifiers for Terrain and Circumstances would be another topic.

We just always went with circumstance modifiers.
If you're 9' tall, walking through an open field towards people who are looking for intruders, then you can't even try.
If you're 9' tall, walking through forest, and trying to avoid detection from somebody a long way off, then you can prowl.
If you're trying to tip-toe up behind somebody, but you're wearing power armor, then it won't work at all (Unless somebody casts a Silence spell, or the person you're sneaking up on is deaf, and if you're outdoors where the floor won't shake with every step).

That sort of thing.

It all depends on who is trying to prowl, what the environment is like, and who they're trying to prowl up on.

nameneeded wrote:I have to agree that one shouldn't be able to Prowl in PA. Mostly for the noise factor. Even a remote control car makes quite alot of noise. "But the engine from a Toyota Hybird make nearly none you say." Thats true but stand outside it and have some one turn the steering whell and you hear that no problem.

From how far away?
On a windy day?
During combat?

Then there's the control aspect. I can't see a PA rolling the balls of its feet to aid in moving silently. Or even walking on its toes. (That would be funny though. SAMAS ballet dancer ) They are not meant to have that level of articulation.

Power armor and bots can make leap-kicks.
That indicates they're pretty agile.

nameneeded wrote:Wind, range and combat all have modifiers to prowl. A concussion grenade goes off next to you and your not hearing anything. A friken tank could roll on up to you with out you hearing it.

Exactly.
So I'm against the idea that it's simply not possible to prowl in power armor.
It's not possible in certain certain circumstances, but that's true no matter what you're wearing.

As for agility. Yes very agile. Not very dexterous. Fine movements are impossible. Can't pick a lock, bandage a wound etc etc.

Source?

And to me prowl invloves that level of movement/ control. Put on your heaviest solid soled boots and jump on some tiles and see how quite you can be. Heck try it with cowboy boots. And they have some flexability in thier sole. Walk silently thru trees and leaves just remember that with no sense of touch you may be breaking all those little things you are moving away with your hands. Also make sure you arms and legs don't rub on one another. rubing cloth silent, rubbing creamics not so much.

All true, and under certain circumstances it all would matter.
Under other circumstances, it wouldn't.

Then you still have hydrolic systems, enviromental systems, all those booster jets and thrusters. They don't have cold starts. Physics and principals of operation demand they be running and warmed up to operate. You don't hop into a jet and within 1 sec hit the after burners. Metal/ ceramic hands manipulating metal weapons, metal feed belts etc etc.

Possibly, possibly not.
It's pretty clear that the technology of Rifts Earth is so advanced that it often makes little to no sense to us.
For example, their jets don't use any fuel other than electricity.
Who knows if they even use hydrolics?

PA suits are, for the most part, not designed to be stealthy. I mean if they were they would have a prowl modifier like those suits that are designed for stealth. They would also have silent weapon systems.

I just can't see it.

The thing is, "Prowling" encompasses a lot more than just tip-toeing across a tiled floor with ninja-like stealth.
There are plenty of circumstances where you need to make a Prowl check where sound simply isn't a factor.
There are plenty of circumstances where careful footing isn't a factor.
Which means that there are plenty of circumstances in which power armor can prowl.

nameneeded wrote:I'm sensing Killer that its more the flat "No you can't even try to prowl in PA" aspect that you have issues with.

So what would make you happy is a modifier to your prowl while in PA.

I can see that.

Yup.
The problem is that each type of PA needs its own prowl modifier, just like EBA, because each type of PA is designed differently.

nameneeded wrote:
So what would make you happy is a modifier to your prowl while in PA.

I can see that.

Yes, it already exists, as I pointed out prior: page 132 of Rifts Japan.

Any light PA suit under 9 feet tall can prowl. You use your character's Prowl skill and suffer a -50% penalty.

I'm sorry but at some point the prowling in PA just gets stupid. I can see something man sized at like -25% if not more and then -10% per foot above 7. Of course this depends on any PP penalty/bonuses offered by the PA