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Well, does the Dog boy R.C.C. say you can select cyber-knight if not they you can't do it. Though I have always allowed people to drop the skills for O.C.C. skills.

Acordding to RUE, all you do is swap their skill set instead of the default to the Cyber Knights. They get the cyber knight training bonuses and skills and powers. and they also keep their psychic sniffing powers. However, they will receive Cyber Knight master Psychic psionic power list as well instead of the normal dog boy master psychic list, but they do still keep the scent and tracking powers.

the rules are in the cyberknight book do it the way you would a psistalker the stuff with race stays and then you have a master cyberknight I gm for one

PhelanMahoney wrote:Well, the thing is, I want to be a dog boy or a wolf man in the game and still have access to that Psi-Sword. But I don't want the armor that goes with it. Plus I want to have a lot of psychic abilities to play with. Consequently a lot more than a standard dog boy gets. Which is why the Mind Melter appeals to me.

No one says you have to take the armor. Just write it into the character's backstory... the Knight who trained him couldn't afford to purchase it, or no one was available to implant the armor at the time and he never went back.

Mack wrote:

PhelanMahoney wrote:Well, the thing is, I want to be a dog boy or a wolf man in the game and still have access to that Psi-Sword. But I don't want the armor that goes with it. Plus I want to have a lot of psychic abilities to play with. Consequently a lot more than a standard dog boy gets. Which is why the Mind Melter appeals to me.

No one says you have to take the armor. Just write it into the character's backstory... the Knight who trained him couldn't afford to purchase it, or no one was available to implant the armor at the time and he never went back.

Cyber-knight Cyber-armor is mystically fused to the Knight shortly after they realize the rest of the abilities. Remember, it does not affect psionics or the Dogboy's senses like the bionic cyber-armor.
If he still didn't want it though, there are cases where those physically unable to receive did not, and at least one case of a Traditionalist technophobe refusing it.

PhelanMahoney wrote:Well, the thing is, I want to be a dog boy or a wolf man in the game and still have access to that Psi-Sword. But I don't want the armor that goes with it. Plus I want to have a lot of psychic abilities to play with. Consequently a lot more than a standard dog boy gets. Which is why the Mind Melter appeals to me.

It's been a while but I think Master Psychic classes are excluded to Feral Dog Boys.

I'll check Lone Star and report back, but even if its not allowed you could always make a Wolfen Mind Melter.

You could go with a Free-born Dogboy Psi-slinger.
Start with psi-sword at 1st level and a bunch of nifty powers.

PhelanMahoney wrote:The one idea I had for the one character I am designed, as per RUE, is take you generic dog boy sans psionics(racial skills for tracking and sensing unchanged), add in wolf modifiers, psychic abilities and class skills as per Mind Melter class. The only other change is that the character reacts to ley lines as a Mind Melter would. Or am I munchkining with keeping the tracking abilities?

Tracking abilities are racial, so they get to keep em.

I would allow the innate psychic tracking ability of the dogboy but they would be at base level skill percentage (Sense Psychic and Magic Energy would stay 40%, Recognize Psychic Scent would stay 10%, etc...) and be unable to progress (no +5% per level) due to the fact that all attention, time, and ISP/PPE are being solely devoted to mastering the Cyber-Knight skill and power set.

Or just make a Wolfen whatever...easier.

Cyber-knight Dog Boy wrote:http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=78675&sid=b254259e2779f7e088156562076f823f

Quote:
Now that dog boy is an OCC rather then an RCC, I've seen a couple of posters on the boards claim that their ability to sense magic and the supernatural is an OCC ability rather then a racial one, and that freeborn dog boys would not have the same psi abilities as one raised in the CS.


K.S.: The Dogboys' sensing powers are a racial ability and would still apply.

I take this as the Dog Boy gets the bonuses and powers on pg 145-147, #1-11, under Special Dog Boy O.C.C. abilities. Plus a few learned psionic abilities under Cyber-Knight O.C.C.

Now since the Dog Boy is a Master Psychic already, change the 8 powers to only 3 more powers from the three catagories. At least that is the way I would do it.

Or since everything is racial under the dog boy just transfer the bonus rolls and saves, the I.S.P. base, and I.S.P. recovery to the Master Psychic section under the Master psychic Cyber-Knight.

Why would you not want the armor? There are no movement penalties Plus it regenerates and gets stronger at 4th level.

On top of that, Mind Melter can't select the Psi-sword at first level and have to wait till the 3rd level.

One good thing about mind melters is thier powers increase when near ley lines which would make them great near nexus points.

But even more problems arise when the facts that dog boys abilities to sense magic, psionics, and the supernatural are voided when near Ley lines. Not to mention the fact they actually have physical discomfort and 2 times likely to be struck by ley line energy and lightning.

Double-edged sword.

I'm trying to figure out the racial characteristics of dogboys now and found this helpful.

I seam to recall their being a cyber knight dog boy in one of the SoT he lost the racial psi powers do to something in the process.

will see if I can find it may be the closest we have to an official way to do it.

cb76 wrote:what changes do I need to make to make a Freeborn Dogboy Cyber-Knight?

I was thinking take all the stuff under the dogboy occ that is specific to the race and toss out all the skills etc. and use the cyber-knight occ skills etc. but only take the sword shield and meditation powers from cyber-knight

The simple way....
Throw away the CS class skills. (since the CS class skills are not linked to the racial powers and abilities.)

Build the cyber knight as usual, replacing the Master psi powers with the racial psi powers.

Keep naturals, add OCC and skills. This doesn't need to be hard, as most abilities will stack. the problem here seems to be most players reaction to the unsaid question "is he too powerful?" and looking to nerf the PC because they have more abilities than most single classed toons.

This is silly.

A Dog Boy/Mind Melter is cool and powerful, but is not more powerful than a baby dragon or a combat 'borg.

Stack the abilities and penalties. Use the most advantageous class ability if they are duplicated (such as ISP, sense X ranges, and similar). Natural senses, tracking, psionics, and RACIAL traits (track by scent, doggie hearing, furry bellies and headaches on ley lines) all carry over. Add in ALL the skills and powers from the OCC, and see how the PC looks. Compare to your group's munchkin's toon (he's probably running a dragon, or maybe attempting to field a half-vampire godling cyborg with superpowers), and then, only then, make adjustments to the PC.

In this case, the PC would still be boosted on ley lines, but also will be in pain and overwhelmed by the "scent". These two conditions are not mutually exclusive.

Alternatively, if you start above lvl1, multiclass Racial 1, Class X, and use the multiclass rules. Skipping the "must get to lvl2" bit as having already happened. As a GM, my house rule would be a lost level to compensate for that lost XP, starting the PC one level less than the other PCs. Note that in this case, the PC gets full bonuses and abilities, but his racial skills and powers do not progress. This method has the advantage of multiple official FAQs and some, scarcely published, official book rules.

nameneeded wrote:Couldn't you just start out as a dogboy then change OCC's to Cyber Knight later? As long as there was a valid reason to allow for it. I am unsure of how multiclassing works in paladium settings.

The training to be a Cyber-knight might take too long.
It probably would be better to start as a free-born.
As to that, they'd get the Dog-boy senses and abilities, but yes they'd get the Cyber-Knight skills; by the rules, though, Freeborns get a different set of Secondary skills.

Fenris2020 wrote:snip...
It probably would be better to start as a free-born.
...snip

Agrees that that this should be 98% limited to free-born Dogboys.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Fenris2020 wrote:snip...
It probably would be better to start as a free-born.
...snip

Agrees that that this should be 98% limited to free-born Dogboys.

Absolutely. A CS pupper would never even think about not being a good boy. They know only what they're trained to know.

Now, a veteran doggo may well multiclass later in life, after they get some real life experiences. Most, however, are loyal to the states until the day they die and would NEVER take up with those D-bee teachings.

Hold up, rolling up Mr. Chips, formerly Sergeant Mr. Chips, a multiclass dog-boy priest of Bastet. Mr. Chips always loved cats, decorated his kitchen in cats, and finally studied with a cat-like D-Bee to become the first dog-priest of the cat god.

ITWastrel wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Fenris2020 wrote:snip...
It probably would be better to start as a free-born.
...snip

Agrees that that this should be 98% limited to free-born Dogboys.

Absolutely. A CS pupper would never even think about not being a good boy. They know only what they're trained to know.

Now, a veteran doggo may well multiclass later in life, after they get some real life experiences. Most, however, are loyal to the states until the day they die and would NEVER take up with those D-bee teachings.

Hold up, rolling up Mr. Chips, formerly Sergeant Mr. Chips, a multiclass dog-boy priest of Bastet. Mr. Chips always loved cats, decorated his kitchen in cats, and finally studied with a cat-like D-Bee to become the first dog-priest of the cat god.

They have free will and more than one book goes into Dog boys leaving the CS and how not only is it a thing. It's not that rare. Nor are they treated badly if they return. So "Never would a CS Dog boy..." Yeah they would. They have. It's talked about in the books.

As to the concept. One of my first two chars was a Dog boy CK. (I made them both in the same weekend like 30 years ago so I can't quiiite remember of the Dogboy CK was first or the Wilderness scout. but one was followed by the other in a day or so)

I can't remember exactly how we 'ruled' on it back then, but it was very likely just as others have said above "Replace the Dog boy OCC skills with CK OCC Skills and have a party.

In a game where a Dragon can transform into a cat, and flip tanks over or breathe MD Fire... while still a fluffy little cat, or casually rip a human in half... because the human tried to bop it's nose for begging by a camp fire...

A dog boy CK is no way overpowering or balancing.

I don't know if this has been mentioned but in the Lone Star WB there is a section on Feral Dog Boys which describes how Dog Boys born outside the CS can become other OCCs. I have used it for other OCCs but I think it would work for a CK and it's not a dual OCC.

The Free Born dogBoys that were mentioned earlier are what you are reffering to. The term Free Born DB was first used in the RMB.

Because it is a CS oriented book it would use the CS term 'Feral' to describe the 'Free Born' DogBoys.

Mouser13 wrote:Well, does the Dog boy R.C.C. say you can select cyber-knight if not they you can't do it. Though I have always allowed people to drop the skills for O.C.C. skills.

"You can't do it"...

LOL, this is Rifts! I could have a MDC chicken cyberknight from the planet Bok-Earth where all Cyberknights are MDC intelligent talking psionic chickens.

No hands, no problem... they control their psyswords with their next level psychics as a floating blade. Anything you could imagine could step through a rift ...

Say what? OCC? Who laid that particular rotten egg?
Okay...fine... >Sigh<
Treat anything not a learned skill as inherent to the physicality of the character.
Apply the Cybernight OCC skill set, and give it the psi-sword.
Have an equal chance of additional psi as per any character.

The only real restriction would be that the character be Freeborn, since the CS would put down a DB Cyberknight as "broken" and dangerous.