Telekinesis to crush a person's heart

[silran666]

This is my first post, and I believe in some way this question has been answered already in another post, but I have a player that read the Brain Fry article in Rifter #15, specifically the introductory story; where the "bum" kills a guy by saying squish and popping his heart.
Now the player wants to do it, and thinks its just that easy, I told him I would research it, and if it seem plausible, would allow it with restrictions, not with the ease with which he thinks he can just go through and kill people with it.
He cannot, see the heart so how could he "crush" it, would he be able to crush someone's throat (like Darth Vader)?
I'm leaning towards no on this, but want some corroboration on it, from the experts.

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is my first post, and I believe in some way this question has been answered already in another post, but I have a player that read the Brain Fry article in Rifter #15, specifically the introductory story; where the "bum" kills a guy by saying squish and popping his heart.
Now the player wants to do it, and thinks its just that easy, I told him I would research it, and if it seem plausible, would allow it with restrictions, not with the ease with which he thinks he can just go through and kill people with it.
He cannot, see the heart so how could he "crush" it, would he be able to crush someone's throat (like Darth Vader)?
I'm leaning towards no on this, but want some corroboration on it, from the experts.

Completely illegal. For one thing, the Rifter stories are NOT cannon and cannot be used to cite rules.

The REAL rule is you can only use Telekisis on things you can see, so you couldn't move his heart in the first place.

Secondly, Telekenis has no PS score and CANNOT be used to "Crush" anything, ever. Not even a fragile glass cup. You can break it by smashing it into other things though.

Now, however, say, if you have someone's chest cut open a la open heart surgury so you can see the heart, you could use Telekensis to rip his heart out, or bang it aginst his ribcage, ect.

But if you already have his chest cut open, you probablly don't need to waste the ISP to kill him...

[Mouser13]

Though I agree this should not be allowed(if a player wanted to do I would allow it, but would use it on him later). if you where going to allow it you should give them a saving throw and it should be hard for the pshyic to do it. First it should be 2 attacks for the called shot to the neck. Second neck should be hard to hit -6-8. Since telekiness gives you what +3 to hit. You would need to have 15+ to do it.

[silran666]

Do you really want anyone with Telekinesis being able to say "Squish" and killing pretty much everything for the paltry cost of what, 5-10 isp, no save? I would hope not.
Also, re-read the power and see if it addresses being able to TK a part of the whole, or if it refers to affecting the entire object. The organ is a part of a much larger whole entity and might not be able to be selectively squeezed.
Storywriters have a certain amount of latitude that players may not have.

See, thats what I was thinking, and thats exactly what he was thinking as well, the guys I play with try really hard to push the rules, but as with anything outrageous, I'm going to deny his request.
Thanks for the info.

[silran666]

This is my first post, and I believe in some way this question has been answered already in another post, but I have a player that read the Brain Fry article in Rifter #15, specifically the introductory story; where the "bum" kills a guy by saying squish and popping his heart.
Now the player wants to do it, and thinks its just that easy, I told him I would research it, and if it seem plausible, would allow it with restrictions, not with the ease with which he thinks he can just go through and kill people with it.
He cannot, see the heart so how could he "crush" it, would he be able to crush someone's throat (like Darth Vader)?
I'm leaning towards no on this, but want some corroboration on it, from the experts.

Completely illegal. For one thing, the Rifter stories are NOT cannon and cannot be used to cite rules.

The REAL rule is you can only use Telekisis on things you can see, so you couldn't move his heart in the first place.

Secondly, Telekenis has no PS score and CANNOT be used to "Crush" anything, ever. Not even a fragile glass cup. You can break it by smashing it into other things though.

Now, however, say, if you have someone's chest cut open a la open heart surgury so you can see the heart, you could use Telekensis to rip his heart out, or bang it aginst his ribcage, ect.

But if you already have his chest cut open, you probablly don't need to waste the ISP to kill him...

Yeah, I mentioned that the stories in the Rifter can be "annoying" in that they give players ideas sometimes, and allow them to think they can perform seemingly impossible acts based on the rules. Thanks for the response.

[drewkitty ~..~]

To crush internal orgens you would have to have some x-ray vision, becasue you have to be able to see what you are affecting.

I have a alien char (hu2) with such a set up....he was up on the roof looking through it with his x-ray vision and did some skirt fliping, w/TK, of one othe fem chars.

[asajosh]

This is my first post, and I believe in some way this question has been answered already in another post, but I have a player that read the Brain Fry article in Rifter #15, specifically the introductory story; where the "bum" kills a guy by saying squish and popping his heart.
Now the player wants to do it, and thinks its just that easy, I told him I would research it, and if it seem plausible, would allow it with restrictions, not with the ease with which he thinks he can just go through and kill people with it.
He cannot, see the heart so how could he "crush" it, would he be able to crush someone's throat (like Darth Vader)?
I'm leaning towards no on this, but want some corroboration on it, from the experts.

Problem One: Telekinesis is line of sight only, unless the victim's heart is on the outside of his body, he's safe.
Solution: A player with Telekinesis and X-Ray vision.

Problem Two: Telekinesis in Palladium books is not an "invisible hand" effect that can crush, squeeze, or grab.
Solution: Assuming problem one has been solved, one can use telekinesis to "pull" the heart out of the body or spin the organ in place inside the chest shredding the ventricles.

[silran666]

This is my first post, and I believe in some way this question has been answered already in another post, but I have a player that read the Brain Fry article in Rifter #15, specifically the introductory story; where the "bum" kills a guy by saying squish and popping his heart.
Now the player wants to do it, and thinks its just that easy, I told him I would research it, and if it seem plausible, would allow it with restrictions, not with the ease with which he thinks he can just go through and kill people with it.
He cannot, see the heart so how could he "crush" it, would he be able to crush someone's throat (like Darth Vader)?
I'm leaning towards no on this, but want some corroboration on it, from the experts.

Problem One: Telekinesis is line of sight only, unless the victim's heart is on the outside of his body, he's safe.
Solution: A player with Telekinesis and X-Ray vision.

Problem Two: Telekinesis in Palladium books is not an "invisible hand" effect that can crush, squeeze, or grab.
Solution: Assuming problem one has been solved, one can use telekinesis to "pull" the heart out of the body or spin the organ in place inside the chest shredding the ventricles.

Yeah, I don't think he's read that part of the descriptor for the psionic power

[Nekira Sudacne]

Is there a psi power of X-Ray? There should be... or maybe I'll seek some specs out.

No. there is a spell of the same name however.

Make those pesky Mystics someone to be feared!

[asajosh]

I was thinking of the Heroes Unlimited power when I wrote it, but ya a spell would work fine.

[Spark]

Could you combine Psychic Diagnosis with TK (super)? The only problem I can see if this were possible is that you'd have to touch the person to even attempt the attack.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Could you combine Psychic Diagnosis with TK (super)? The only problem I can see if this were possible is that you'd have to touch the person to even attempt the attack.

No. For reasons already stated on this thread.

[Ice Dragon]

This is my first post, and I believe in some way this question has been answered already in another post, but I have a player that read the Brain Fry article in Rifter #15, specifically the introductory story; where the "bum" kills a guy by saying squish and popping his heart.
Now the player wants to do it, and thinks its just that easy, I told him I would research it, and if it seem plausible, would allow it with restrictions, not with the ease with which he thinks he can just go through and kill people with it.
He cannot, see the heart so how could he "crush" it, would he be able to crush someone's throat (like Darth Vader)?
I'm leaning towards no on this, but want some corroboration on it, from the experts.

Not allowed.

Telekinesis is not a psi power to crush things, more to "levitate" and "move" things around.

Maybe you can created your own super psi power called "telekinetic crush" or something like that (needs a saving role for the victim).

[Rimmerdal]

This is my first post, and I believe in some way this question has been answered already in another post, but I have a player that read the Brain Fry article in Rifter #15, specifically the introductory story; where the "bum" kills a guy by saying squish and popping his heart.
Now the player wants to do it, and thinks its just that easy, I told him I would research it, and if it seem plausible, would allow it with restrictions, not with the ease with which he thinks he can just go through and kill people with it.
He cannot, see the heart so how could he "crush" it, would he be able to crush someone's throat (like Darth Vader)?
I'm leaning towards no on this, but want some corroboration on it, from the experts.

Not allowed.

Telekinesis is not a psi power to crush things, more to "levitate" and "move" things around.

Maybe you can created your own super psi power called "telekinetic crush" or something like that (needs a saving role for the victim).

Now that inspires thought...I knew there was a reason I read this stuff.

[Nekira Sudacne]

What about 'Astral Projection" ? Wouldn't it be possible to look into a creatures body and use TK to wrench its organs out that way? According to canon a psychic can use telepathy or empathy but does not state the use of other psychic powers. It just says that the psychic themselves are unable to effect the material plane.

Source? RGMG: p92.

The rules are already in place. It's how we utilise them that is the adventure.

actually, astral projection does not give you x-ray vision or the ability to look inside people.

[Mouser13]

But 4th demensional transformation does? That gives me a idea. Telekinsis the spell and it.

[Mouser13]

Is it a good one?

[Nekira Sudacne]

wait... what exactly does 4th dimentional transformation do? Cause if it does what it sounds like it does, think spacial mannipulation through the back door and out the window. Point is you bypass the front door.

it transforms you into a 4 dimensional being.

what the details? buy Rifts England or Book of Magic.

[asajosh]

I'm trying to find a way without breaking the rules. I just find ways AROUND them...

Is that like the difference between speeding and finding a way AROUND the speed limits?

I don't drive, I'm the designated drinker... that and police don't bother me. Probably cause I'm polite and cooprative with them.

Doesn't really answer Rogue Scientist's question tho, does it?

[ShadowLogan]

...but I have a player that read the Brain Fry article in Rifter #15, specifically the introductory story; where the "bum" kills a guy by saying squish and popping his heart.
...
He cannot, see the heart so how could he "crush" it, would he be able to crush someone's throat (like Darth Vader)?

As I do not have the Rifter #15, are you sure that:
A. The "bum" really used TK to crush the organ
B. The "bum" is really a Psychic and not a mage (or a rare "mutant") since he had to "speak" a command to do it.

Bio-Manipulation would be the closest PSI power to what is being described. Likely a form of "tissue manipulation" or "Pain" form. Maybe even with a horrible save roll (like say on a Natural 1, a critical fail) to get the result.

[NMI]

If the heart in some way could be seen, I can see this working....

using two forces of tk... one on the bottom of the heart "pushing it up" or "lifting" it. The 2nd force "pushing" it down. "SQUISH". if you can put ISP into TK to lift several hundred pounds if not a few tons, then squishing a heart "that you can see" shouldnt be a problem.

Also remember, whatever the players can pull off, so can the antagonists!

[NMI]

Could you combine Psychic Diagnosis with TK (super)? The only problem I can see if this were possible is that you'd have to touch the person to even attempt the attack.

why would you need to? just use psychic surgery to torture the "target". use it to seperate the muscles from the flesh/bones of his leg! Cant walk, cant escape!

[Library Ogre]

My version of telekinesis would not work in this fashion.

[verdilak]

If the heart in some way could be seen, I can see this working....

using two forces of tk... one on the bottom of the heart "pushing it up" or "lifting" it. The 2nd force "pushing" it down. "SQUISH". if you can put ISP into TK to lift several hundred pounds if not a few tons, then squishing a heart "that you can see" shouldnt be a problem.

Also remember, whatever the players can pull off, so can the antagonists!

Exactly.

Also, you could use TK to push the heart against the ribs... SQUISH. Or the back.

Heh, if you can get your hands on those super tough rubber bands that they use on male cows.... TK to open, TK to close.... OUCH! That there is a fight ender, no matter who you are.

I still say that acording to the book, you cannot use TK or STK to move people. Now, if you used it on their clothing, sure, but clothing tends to rip.

[Nekira Sudacne]

If the heart in some way could be seen, I can see this working....

psychic diagnosis ?

it lets you know if something is wrong with somebody.

Nothing more.

[Library Ogre]

From Psychic Diagnosis psi-power...

This pinpoint accuracy enables the character to suggest treatment or to conduct psychic surgery.

and crushing someone's heart via TK is pretty much psi-surgery.

The range sucks, but that's the munchkin's problem.

However, that's not the same as vision.

[Library Ogre]

Yes, but I was responding to your statement about pinpoint accuracy, and that being the reason it would be an acceptable aiming method... specifically, pointing out why it was not. It diagnoses problems with pinpoint accuracy, not finds someone heart so you can rip it out of them.

[Library Ogre]

Psychic Diagnosis = detailed analysis, in other words everything you'd see on an x-ray; not just "duh, put your hands here" and hope for the best.

Yes, but it is not direct sight, which is required for TK. It is not necessarily "just as you would see it in an x-ray"... in some cases, you would feel "This doesn't feel this right here." After all, an X-ray isn't going to tell someone that they have blood poisoning, but Psychic Surgery will.

[Daikuma]

This is my first post, and I believe in some way this question has been answered already in another post, but I have a player that read the Brain Fry article in Rifter #15, specifically the introductory story; where the "bum" kills a guy by saying squish and popping his heart.
Now the player wants to do it, and thinks its just that easy, I told him I would research it, and if it seem plausible, would allow it with restrictions, not with the ease with which he thinks he can just go through and kill people with it.
He cannot, see the heart so how could he "crush" it, would he be able to crush someone's throat (like Darth Vader)?
I'm leaning towards no on this, but want some corroboration on it, from the experts.

Check Rifter #25, Page 81, Psionic Power: Telekinetic Force.

It does exactly what you are looking for (including the Darth Vader thing) because all you have to do to "crush" someone's heart is to apply enough pressure to the chest itself.

The heart will likely pop like a water balloon even before the ribs crack because the pressure is applied from all sides, increasing the external pressure on the thoracic cavity, thereby increasing the fluid pressure on the inside of the cavity.

Although long before the heart popped the person would pass out and likely die from the backpressure effect that this use would cause on his vascular system (preventing the blood from returning to the heart or even the chest cavity once it departed the higher pressure zone - picture someone with those rubber hoses junkies use or tournequets tied triple tight on all of the limbs and their neck...)

I can see the headlines now:

"Vascular Traffic Jam Turns Victim to Jelly"