Waking the old ones

[jade von delioch]

the 13 deadly magick are support to be really rare and nearly lost. i would make them jump through hoops and travel from heaven to hell and back again just to find even one of them.


Besides, sooner or later a god or some such will hirer a group of heroes.. the real kind.. to put a stop to anyone trying to wake the old ones...


Which brings to mind another thing. Is it common knowledge that the old ones are only asleep, not destroyed by the gods during the chaos war? I mean, it not like everyone has seen the Tristine Chronicles

[drewkitty ~..~]

You could probibly run them though the minion war books looking for the 13 spells.

[Natasha]

Besides, sooner or later a god or some such will hirer a group of heroes.. the real kind.. to put a stop to anyone trying to wake the old ones...

I agree. Those that put the Old Ones down are going to be actively keeping the Old Ones down. Besides direct intervention, the gods have plenty of tools available to keep meddlesome PCs from successfully waking the Old Ones. On the other hand, the PCs may find their venture utterly impossible to complete; mortals just are not cut out to wake the Old Ones.

[jade von delioch]

they don't really communicate in the sense of the word. one can make a witch pact with a fragment essence of one or more of the slumbering old ones. But they only communicate through fragmented dreams that may seem more fever induced than informative... At least that what i got from the Old Ones book.

[Natasha]

they don't really communicate in the sense of the word. one can make a witch pact with a fragment essence of one or more of the slumbering old ones. But they only communicate through fragmented dreams that may seem more fever induced than informative... At least that what i got from the Old Ones book.

Been a while since I read teh book. I think you correct.

It makes sense, too. It at least makes things more interesting

[jade von delioch]

thats an interesting thought though.. that if a person was contacted by the old ones they would need to save vs insanity.. i would assume that this was especially true for any race that appeared in the world after the chaos war was over and the old ones were put to sleep since they have never encountered such minds before.

[Rallan]

My players want to wake the old ones, with the 13 deadly magicks (I think was the title of the article, from RIFTER #13) Ive been pretty creative so far, Angels, Dragons, and various Deities contacting characters who arent quite as excited by the thought and offering them protection, etc... if they help stop that from coming about, but i was wondering if anyone else had some ideas.

There'd be a lot more than just getting in touch with people and saying "hey this isn't a bad idea". If word gets out that a reasonably powerful dude is trying to wake the Old Ones, everyone with half a brain will want him dead. If word gets out that a reasonably powerful dude is coming closer than anyone else in thousands of years to actually being able to do it, Gods and Demons and Alien Intelligences and ancient sorcerers and Vampire Intelligences and the Splugorth and the Prometheans and most everyone else will be actively trying to make him dead. And if he finds out how to do it and starts going at it, all the various incredibly powerful deities and suchlike who are actively guarding the dimensional prison of the Old Ones will most likely turn up in person and make sure he's dead.

The only folks who wouldn't want to stop your character would be

a) other willing servants of the Old Ones (and some of those servants might want to stop him anyway, because they've got more freedom if their masters stay trapped)

b) a small handful of beings and factions silly enough to believe that they can succeed where all the forces of light failed the first time around and actually kill the Old Ones. And you can bet your sweet ass that if you somehow manage to succeed, they'll try and kill you straight away so they can get on with the real fight.

c) everyone who's never heard of the Old Ones in the first place. For example, the Mechanoids aren't likely to want to kill some guy just because he's trying to awaken a bunch of alien intelligences (they'll want to kill you for having precisely the wrong number of arms, legs, and heads though, so it's a moot point ).

[jade von delioch]

check out the rules on time travel and how it affects items in the Transdamenional TMNT book for some ideas for having people from other parts of the magaverse showing up in PF.. may give you some interesting ideas..

[jade von delioch]

no its not

[cornholioprime]

My players want to wake the old ones, with the 13 deadly magicks (I think was the title of the article, from RIFTER #13) Ive been pretty creative so far, Angels, Dragons, and various Deities contacting characters who arent quite as excited by the thought and offering them protection, etc... if they help stop that from coming about, but i was wondering if anyone else had some ideas.

This is effectively impossible for anything short of a platoon of Greater Gods, Alien Intelligences, or possibly the Cosmic Forge -provided you even know "where" to look (and almost nobody in the entire Megaverse does).

• First......after 50,000 years of trying in various ways by much more powerful, organized, and intelligent forces of evil, it's unlikely that your group will ever even begin to find what is needed, realistically speaking.
  
• Second...the Interdimensional Prison that they are kept in, is watched over by both Brahma, one of the most all-time powerful Gods in the Palladium Megaverse, and Zurvan, absolutely the most powerful known being in the Megaverse besides the Old Ones themselves (he's an Alien Intelligence in his own right, and so powerful that he once destroyed an invading Alien Intelligence in a single action). Both Brahma and Zurvan have a link to the barrier; no doubt they'll know the instant a jail-brak attempt is tried..and they'll probably magically know just where to find the culprit, too.
  
  And then there's Thoth. Do you really want to get on his bad side? Your player characters might want to remember that he DOES still experiment with Rune Magic, and they just might find themselves part of a Greater Rune butter knife if they cross that guy.
  
  After that, you'll have to deal with Kym-Nark-Mar, the Dragon God who helped fashion the super-spell. I reckon you'll taste great to him with barbecue sauce...if he decides to let you die.
  
• Third....the Alien Intelligences of the Megaverse will intervene themselves, directly if necessary.
  
  The Old Ones were so powerful, that the spell that captured them left creatures like the Splugorth and Nxla and the Vampire Intelligences and the Lord of the Deep out, because even they were small fish by comparison.
  
  The Old Ones were so powerful, that even other Alien Intelligences were sometime food to those guys!! It's already been stated that each and every single one of them will do everything in their power to keep them from being freed. They will send ARMIES after you if they think you're close, maybe even destroy the planet you're on just to be safe (or at least kill every single living thing including you).
  
• Fourth and finally....where are you going to get all the mega-massive amounts of PPE that you'll be needing just to breach the dimensional barrier?? Ahriman and Apsu are just two beings of much lesser power, and their wimpy-by-comparison prisons each need hundreds of thousands of PPE to breach.
  
  How much more PPE do you imagine they pumped into the Old Ones' hidden dimension??

Not every thing that you want the Player Characters to do, should be able to be done by them.

[Natasha]

I need to re-read Old Ones book?
What's the 13 deadly magics?

Still I think they would be unreachable/unattainable. But it sure could be fun trying.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Cornholio:

The notes about Brama and "those who must be kept" are generally suspected of being the old ones...

HOWEVER!

That is merely idle speculation.

The palladium fantasy book gives the offical explination, _they are all still on palladium fantasy_

'Cept one, who's on a meteor flying around it in it's solar system.





My own theory is more probable that he's the one keeping the Unholy of Wormwood in check.

[cornholioprime]

Cornholio:

The notes about Brama and "those who must be kept" are generally suspected of being the old ones...

HOWEVER!

That is merely idle speculation.

Not true.

Even without getting the Rifts: Pantheons of the Megaverse Book out (my favorite of them all), I can almost quote the passage word for word from memory.

To Paraphrase:

".....Siva and Vishnu believe that Brahma is engaged in a secret battle with the greatest of demons.

They are partly right.

Brahma, along with a select few powerhouses of the Megaverse, are busy making sure that the Unnameable Beings never awaken. Some of these beings are capable of destoying entire universes!!

These beings, which include the Palladium world's Old Ones, are bound by powerful spells between dimensions which are not accessible by any normal magical psionic or technological means. Brahma routinely spends thousands of PPE reinforcing these bonds....."

[cornholioprime]

hrm... negative arent we cornholio.

"Negative" isn't the proper word.

Laying out what is, and how difficult/impossible the task at hand should be, is what is being done here.

I don't "win" or "lose" if I tell you that the Old Ones should be virtually impossible for an army of Gods to wake up, much less a Joe Average adventuring group. I just "do my job" in the Forum and answer a question as best as I can.

If you took it personally, then don't; no offense was implied or intended.

[jade von delioch]

I need to re-read Old Ones book?
What's the 13 deadly magics?

Still I think they would be unreachable/unattainable. But it sure could be fun trying.

the 13 deadly magicks are in one of the rifters.. i'm not sure which one..


I would like to agree with Cornholio..............but there is one problem that i keep getting stuck on..

You see, he/she/whatever, is pulling source information (that only hints mind you) from rifts. While rifts maybe part of the palladium system, it does not mean that everything that is made for it (it being broken half the time anyway) is convinced with palladium fantasy or the chaos war that was fought on the palladium home world in mind.

"please do not muck up my palladium world with your trash", is another way to say it.

[Natasha]

I need to re-read Old Ones book?
What's the 13 deadly magics?

Still I think they would be unreachable/unattainable. But it sure could be fun trying.

the 13 deadly magicks are in one of the rifters.. i'm not sure which one..

Ah, thanks!

[cornholioprime]

I need to re-read Old Ones book?
What's the 13 deadly magics?

Still I think they would be unreachable/unattainable. But it sure could be fun trying.

the 13 deadly magicks are in one of the rifters.. i'm not sure which one..


I would like to agree with Cornholio..............but there is one problem that i keep getting stuck on..

You see, he/she/whatever, is pulling source information (that only hints mind you) from rifts. While rifts maybe part of the palladium system, it does not mean that everything that is made for it (it being broken half the time anyway) is convinced with palladium fantasy or the chaos war that was fought on the palladium home world in mind.

"please do not muck up my palladium world with your trash", is another way to say it.

And yet, at the same time as you reject the canon Rifts novels for "mixing" with your PFRPG, by going ahead and using the 13 Magicks you simultaneously "muck up your Palladium World" with non-canon Rifter™ 'Trash.'

Come on, man, you can't have it both ways (well, actually you can do anything within your own game, but you know what I'm getting at here.... )

ADDENDUM: And as I pointed out in my earlier Post which cited the entry on Brahma from "Rifts: Pantheons of the Megaverse," there isn't a hint that Brahma is helping to keep the Old Ones asleep, there's an outright fact that Brahma (and Zurvan, amongst unnamed others) are keeping the Old Ones asleep and imprisoned....

[cornholioprime]

Bah, im all for mixing the worlds, and i think your putting words in other peoples mouths, the writers for example.

I read brahma the wise, and it states exactly what you quoted, and little else.
It states that the unnameable ones, are in the same category as the old ones, but IMPLIES they are separate creatures.

What part of "...these beings (which includes the Palladium World's Old Ones)..." did you miss??

For the rest of you who kight be thinking that I am "putting words in the writers' mouths" as Solace put it, please refer to Rifts: Pantheons of the Megaverse, page 122 -second paragraph.

Is this the state of English Comprehension in our schools today??

Read if nothing else, the western empire book, the 9th area (I think) detailed in it (its separated into like 12 sections for descriptions of the places) It talks about the blood marble, and that being part of an old one.

Read that, then tell me how they are mining part of an old one, and passing it off as marble, from inside a dimensional pocket, re-enforced by brahma.

You DO know/realize that Palladium's Alien Intelligences are part flesh and part essence at the same time, right??

These creatures' physical bodies get killed off all the time, and their spirit normally goes off to then "recuperate" in other dimensions. In the Old Ones' case, they were shunted off to this extradimensional prison instead.

To put it another way, it is entirely possible for both to be true: that some yahoos are mining Blood Marble from the corpse of an Old One, AND that Brahma is keeping their essences asleep. In fact, as far as can be determined as to hard it is to kill these things -you can only do so permanently in the creature's Home Dimension -that Blood Marble could be the Old One A's first body that was destroyed, and the Old One A's essence and newly created physical body (Kevin implies that the regeneration/revival process for Alien Intelligences is automatic, involuntary and extremely long term) is in the prison of the Unnameable Beings along with its spirit.

(By the way, get us a specific Quote and Page Number for your source, please. I'd like to know if it really is the body of an Old One being mined, or if it is just an Erin Tarn-like legend.)

[jade von delioch]

i think its werid that no one is stopping them from mining an old one?. i mean what kind of effect will that have on the enchantment or the world at large? what the hell are the gods doing? Sitting around playing tic tac toe? they should get off their large @##'s and do something for once.

[JTwig]

i think its werid that no one is stopping them from mining an old one?. i mean what kind of effect will that have on the enchantment or the world at large? what the hell are the gods doing? Sitting around playing tic tac toe? they should get off their large @##'s and do something for once.

Thats part of the setting, almost everyone (including most of the gods) believe that the Old Ones are a threat that was taken care of and have started to let their petty squabbles and passions distract them from their vigilance.

As for the Blood Marble, I believe it is neither confirmed or denied that it is taken from the body of a slumbering Old One. Even if it is from the body of a sleeping Old One, it doesn't mean that it is one of the five (or was their more?) main Old Ones. In the PFRPG Old Ones book it talks about how there were hundreds of Old Ones, and almost all of them were put to sleep. Most were only as powerful or slightly more powerful than your average AI.

What part of "...these beings (which includes the Palladium World's Old Ones)..." did you miss??

For the rest of you who kight be thinking that I am "putting words in the writers' mouths" as Solace put it, please refer to Rifts: Pantheons of the Megaverse, page 122 -second paragraph.

He is absolutely right. But the paragraph does raise the though, if the Old Ones are just one of many such beings imprisoned (I mean creatures of power equal to the named Old Ones), then maybe the Chaos War that saw their defeat was only one of many battles that took place across the Mega-Verse at the same time, and that the conflict was even greater than use readers have been lead to believe.

[cornholioprime]

i think its werid that no one is stopping them from mining an old one?. i mean what kind of effect will that have on the enchantment or the world at large? what the hell are the gods doing? Sitting around playing tic tac toe? they should get off their large @##'s and do something for once.

Thats part of the setting, almost everyone (including most of the gods) believe that the Old Ones are a threat that was taken care of and have started to let their petty squabbles and passions distract them from their vigilance.

As for the Blood Marble, I believe it is neither confirmed or denied that it is taken from the body of a slumbering Old One. Even if it is from the body of a sleeping Old One, it doesn't mean that it is one of the five (or was their more?) main Old Ones. In the PFRPG Old Ones book it talks about how there were hundreds of Old Ones, and almost all of them were put to sleep. Most were only as powerful or slightly more powerful than your average AI.

What part of "...these beings (which includes the Palladium World's Old Ones)..." did you miss??

For the rest of you who kight be thinking that I am "putting words in the writers' mouths" as Solace put it, please refer to Rifts: Pantheons of the Megaverse, page 122 -second paragraph.

He is absolutely right. But the paragraph does raise the though, if the Old Ones are just one of many such beings imprisoned (I mean creatures of power equal to the named Old Ones), then maybe the Chaos War that saw their defeat was only one of many battles that took place across the Mega-Verse at the same time, and that the conflict was even greater than use readers have been lead to believe.

Agreed on all points.

Apparently, the influence of the Old Ones was such that even the mighty Splugorth were not totally removed from their influence even though they were in a far distant dimension (Rifts).

By the way, a little side note, jtwig, just in case you're strictly a Palladium guy:

In the Rifts Dimension, there are several Greater Alien Intelligences with 100,000 to 500,000 MDC or more, each potentially capable of destroying, eating and/or enslaving entire planets, who were "allowed" to roam free when the Great Magick was unleashed because they for all their power were Small Fish in comparison to the Old Ones and the Forces of light apparently had to 'pick and choose!!'

[JTwig]

Agreed on all points.

Apparently, the influence of the Old Ones was such that even the mighty Splugorth were not totally removed from their influence even though they were in a far distant dimension (Rifts).

By the way, a little side note, jtwig, just in case you're strictly a Palladium guy:

In the Rifts Dimension, there are several Greater Alien Intelligences with 100,000 to 500,000 MDC or more, each potentially capable of destroying, eating and/or enslaving entire planets, who were "allowed" to roam free when the Great Magick was unleashed because they for all their power were Small Fish in comparison to the Old Ones and the Forces of light apparently had to 'pick and choose!!'

No I'm a Rifts guy, from when it first was released, who has become a PFRPG guy. According to PFRPG, and hinted at in some of the Rifts books, the Old Ones once supposedly ruled the entire Mega-Verse (or at least enough of it to influence greatly the entire Mega-Verse), and that almost all the AIs were their servants (including the Splugorth, which I can't remember in which book it was written, maybe Pantheons) and that those AIs whose physical forms were not put to sleep and their essences locked away were considered to be insignificant threats. This includes all of those AIs with 100,000-500,000 M.D.C., and threats like the Lord of the Deep.

I use to think that Rifts was the be all and end all of Palladium, but I recommend reading PFRPG books to every Rifts fan. It gives you a much greater understanding and appreciation for the Mega-Verse and the game system as a whole.

[Natasha]

Those who attempt the impossible, achieve the impossible!

As a GM allowing this attempt I would put together the hardest/subtlest/wierdest campaign ever heard of.

If/When the players get noticed then it should turn into a killer campaign. Everything and anything to kill off the characters.

If they survive and achieve their goal what will the Old Ones do? Thank the characters?

Yea, it could be fun trying. I'm not sure even a munchkin group could make it that far to find out. But I never played such a group.

[cornholioprime]

.

I use to think that Rifts was the be all and end all of Palladium, but I recommend reading PFRPG books to every Rifts fan. It gives you a much greater understanding and appreciation for the Mega-Verse and the game system as a whole.

That makes two of us.

At a slower rate than that which I purchased Rifts™ merchandise at, I am now scooping up PFRPG and HU materials (I have collected almost everything else in the Rifts Earth Dimension anyway, but am looking forward to the Minion Wars when they come out).

The J-twig's right, folks; give some of the materials of the Palladium dimension a try; as rich as Rifts is, in just about every area PFRPG is much, much richer in content.

[Natasha]

.

I use to think that Rifts was the be all and end all of Palladium, but I recommend reading PFRPG books to every Rifts fan. It gives you a much greater understanding and appreciation for the Mega-Verse and the game system as a whole.

That makes two of us.

Have it your way. Makes three of us.

I would add tho that then go put down your laser rifle and pick up a dagger It's my favourite RPG in the whole wide world.

[JTwig]

Those who attempt the impossible, achieve the impossible!

As a GM allowing this attempt I would put together the hardest/subtlest/wierdest campaign ever heard of.

If/When the players get noticed then it should turn into a killer campaign. Everything and anything to kill off the characters.

If they survive and achieve their goal what will the Old Ones do? Thank the characters?

Yea, it could be fun trying. I'm not sure even a munchkin group could make it that far to find out. But I never played such a group.

Neither have I, but I don't play high level campaigns.

The Rifter (#13) article that has the 13 Deadly Spells was very well written and address this part. It also talks about how even a good group may go on the quest to collect the spells, just so they can be locked away (Destroying does no good. As soon as one is destroyed it randomly appears someplace else in the dimension). The spells are also insanely powerful, but a lot of times they cost the character more than just P.P.E.

[sasha]

My players want to wake the old ones, with the 13 deadly magicks (I think was the title of the article, from RIFTER #13) Ive been pretty creative so far, Angels, Dragons, and various Deities contacting characters who arent quite as excited by the thought and offering them protection, etc... if they help stop that from coming about, but i was wondering if anyone else had some ideas.

"Hey Set, some fools think they can wake the old ones?"
"Orly? Get Apepi out there."

*Apepi dementionally teleports next to the players and godblazes*
*Players get vaporized*

*Gods of darkness laugh*
*Gods of light rejoice*
*A group of gods diefically rez the players after 48 hours, just so that Apepi can do it again*

That's one way it could end up.

Some bull with really really big horns would trample the player group.

[Rallan]

This is effectively impossible for anything short of a platoon of Greater Gods, Alien Intelligences, or possibly the Cosmic Forge -provided you even know "where" to look (and almost nobody in the entire Megaverse does).

Sounds like they need a ugly dwarf with an Axe then.

Though I would agree that the task would be close to impossible...

Those who attempt the impossible, achieve the impossible!

As a GM allowing this attempt I would put together the hardest/subtlest/wierdest campaign ever heard of.

If/When the players get noticed then it should turn into a killer campaign. Everything and anything to kill off the characters.

If they survive and achieve their goal what will the Old Ones do? Thank the characters?

Eat the characters. Anyone with the knowledge and power to free the Old Ones might be able to figure out how to control or re-imprison the Old Ones. That's a risk that no self-respecting alien intelligence can take, so the logical solution is to just eat everyone involved.

[sasha]

This is effectively impossible for anything short of a platoon of Greater Gods, Alien Intelligences, or possibly the Cosmic Forge -provided you even know "where" to look (and almost nobody in the entire Megaverse does).

Sounds like they need a ugly dwarf with an Axe then.

Though I would agree that the task would be close to impossible...

Those who attempt the impossible, achieve the impossible!

As a GM allowing this attempt I would put together the hardest/subtlest/wierdest campaign ever heard of.

If/When the players get noticed then it should turn into a killer campaign. Everything and anything to kill off the characters.

If they survive and achieve their goal what will the Old Ones do? Thank the characters?

Eat the characters. Anyone with the knowledge and power to free the Old Ones might be able to figure out how to control or re-imprison the Old Ones. That's a risk that no self-respecting alien intelligence can take, so the logical solution is to just eat everyone involved.

Lovely mental images. It even included the GM eating the character sheets just drive the point home.

[cornholioprime]

Here is the issue that really bothers me.

In 6 gaming sessions the characters gathered 6 of the 13 magicks...

How the hell does that happen?

Those spells are legendary spells. Just figuring out who possesses these spells should take about 6 gaming sessions. Just finding one should take 6 sessions, and you should have 2 or 3 characters either dead or nearly dead...

And yet in each gaming session, the characters have managed to find one of the magicks....

Sorry but that issue alone floors me...
(we won't get into the response from the elder gods, AI, VI, and others when this attempt starts or word gets out (or when some god gets clairvoyance and sees what the characters are trying)

Agreed.

It makes NO sense whatsoever that Spells that have been actively sought in vain over the last 50,000 years by MUCH larger, better organized, more intelligent (and often insane) forces of evil get discovered by Joe's Amateur Adventuring Troop in a matter of weeks.

[cornholioprime]

And then there's Thoth. Do you really want to get on his bad side? Your player characters might want to remember that he DOES still experiment with Rune Magic, and they just might find themselves part of a Greater Rune butter knife if they cross that guy.

Unlikely as this would ever be, the only real shot I can see for a player-initiated awakening of the Old Ones would be to somehow reverse the magic on Thoth and re-awaken him to his previous incarnation.

That would also be a years-spanning .000002% chance of success for Godling munchkin PC's campaign in and of itself though.

Anyways, it would be a simpler route than trying to collect all 13 magics unless they are also required for the reversal.

The only problem with that is that NOBODY in the entire Palladium Megaverse even knows of Thoth's old identity, much less a way to restore him.
(In fact, nobody even knows that he's an Alien Intelligence, not even he.)

The only people who know that fact are "God" and you.

[cornholioprime]

Page 52, RIFTS Africa on Thoth:

"Although Thoth's previous memories as Xy are supposedly erased forever, these dreams are tiny fragments of memory surfacing from his earlier existence. Like most dreams, the memory fades quickly and is forgotten. Thus far, Thoth has been too busy to think about them much, but he has never dreamed before and finds them curious. If the dreams persist and he tries to uncover their secrets.. who knows what may happen."

Hmm.. yes that's unknown fact, but I don't think it would be much of a stretch for Thoth's subconscious persona to organize events through his dreams which may lead to the (accidental?) discovery of the knowledge by aforementioned Godling party.. or not, it seems to me as though the writers left this one very open-ended on purpose.

After reading that, doesn't it at least seem possible?

It seems posible...that someday in the far future Thoth might just perhaps maybe could unravel the mystery himself.

But as it stands it is an impossibility for any group of Player Characters to even know about because there's no mention that Thoth is discussing this info with anyone else -not to mention the fact that the Egyptian Pantheon itself isn't all that accessible or even well-known to most modern day mortals.

[Lenwen]

Ok after much reading of the other pages on this thread . I might just add my little two Cp's worth of personal Opinion .
I've scanned the 13 deadly magic's before an to be honest with you all I personally Feel that not only would they be a GREAT plot device I personally would put a huge twist on them Lenwen esq .. as it were . For instance for every scroll I'd make a God be the very protector . Not just the average mid level pantheon filler god but perhaps some God that is as powerfull as an ALL Father level God who's only sole porpose is simply to Watch over and protect the scroll . And on the Other one make it a Devil Lord or similar power and on yet another a Demon Lord of similar power . On another I'd make it be inside the actual Dimensional Prison that holds the Host (Lords of Wormwood) Actually attaining that one would (yes Mearly ATTAINING ) inevitably release them onto the Megaverse not to mention Another one could be the posession of some superpowerfull Vampire Intellegence in some far off Hard to reach Dimension that it control's there are soo many ways to make this thing UN Attainable even by beings on Zurvans powerlevel heh . Another 1 could be the VERY foundation of an entire Realm of Existance .. (think about that one ) Another 1 could be in the very hand of "the Dark" itself .. in the nightbane setting an to be honest with you to attain that one alone you could never do period aint even a small one millionth of a trillionth percent of a snowballs chance in hell could you get that one haha Too many ways in my personal opinion to make this impossible to even God beings or even munchkin AI's to be honest with you . And that my friends is how to handle PC's who want to attain the 13 deadly magics .. course along the way they better each have at least no less then 100 other Pc's prerolled and adjusted to the prerequisit level of munchkinism to even START the whole process . Can you imagin that .. PC : Psst I want this first deadly magic know where I can get it ? Disguised Elder Dragon : Yeah here .. ( transforms into Elder Great Horned Dragon an destroye's entire PC grp .. kk .. Rnd TWO next pc grp up for bids .. just my two Cp's tho have fun with it let me know how it turns out .
-Lenwen.

[Lenwen]

Actually Lynx8882 if you read my thoughts I was not against the GM nor his grp in attempting this . I gave him 7 different scenarios that he could do / add to his run to make the entire thing 100% impossible . I could do it for each and every spell in that line for him if he sent me a PM askin for help I'd gladly help out . But if you also remember cannon from well any books that mention the Old Ones it is relativly simple to know that it is a fact that If it becomes known that some (good guys) want to collect them even if to simply lock them someplace else I would say virtually any god from Pantheons of the Megavrse as well as Dragons an Gods books would be all over them . It took most of them if not ALL of them to mearly subdue the Old ones not destroy them or even hurt them just to Subdue them . Do you honestly think any Being who took part in that war would allow anyone to attain all the magic's needed to wake them up an put them all together in one relativly UNsafe location ? Course Gm can run the game who says he cant ? It is mearly implied that to do so you will have entire pantheons an entire races all over you thusly making it relativly inconcievable that you could attain them all with out the notice of said beings an THEN try to prove to them that your on the good side an trying to simply collect them to put them all together in a single location (thus making it super easy then if a baddy wanted to wake them up wouldent you think he finds one he has them all ..) Well as I started to say in the first place tho I would help GM out an even want to know how this game turns out as it is intersting at least to me this is my 2 cp's

-Lenwen.

[The Beast]

Everyone else in the Megaverse ------> <-------- your players. Any questions?