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How do you handle illiteracy in Coalition cities? How do merchants name their stores or how do products label their wares???

I modified things a bit, so that CS Citizens have the reading equivalent of a third-grader... enough to feel superior to everyone living outside the city walls, and enough to get by in everyday life, but hardly good enough to read philosophy or technical manuals.

Pentoth wrote:How do you handle illiteracy in Coalition cities?

By assuming that most citizens can't read.

How do merchants name their stores or how do products label their wares???

They name their stores the same way stores were named before literacy was common.
They put a sign out front with a picture on it.
For example, "The Broken Dragon Tavern" wouldn't have a sign out front that said "The Broken Dragon Tavern", it would have an old, broken sign that had a picture of a dragon on it.
Most likely, when the place was new it was simply called "The Dragon Tavern".

For chain outlets, like Wilk's, they'd likely have an emblem, or an oversized replica of a Wilk's pistol, or whatever, hanging out front, and every store in the chain would use the same sign.

I imagine all that graffiti in the books' illustrations is a serious crime.

But yea signs and symbols galore. Or boatloads of Eyes of Thoth potions.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Pentoth wrote:How do you handle illiteracy in Coalition cities?

By assuming that most citizens can't read.

How do merchants name their stores or how do products label their wares???

They name their stores the same way stores were named before literacy was common.
They put a sign out front with a picture on it.
For example, "The Broken Dragon Tavern" wouldn't have a sign out front that said "The Broken Dragon Tavern", it would have an old, broken sign that had a picture of a dragon on it.
Most likely, when the place was new it was simply called "The Dragon Tavern".

For chain outlets, like Wilk's, they'd likely have an emblem, or an oversized replica of a Wilk's pistol, or whatever, hanging out front, and every store in the chain would use the same sign.

Good call.
When one looks into the window of th local gun shop, you don't really need a sign that says Gun Shop.
And locals can pass along info in simple terms.
Visitor: 'Scuse me, where can I get a drink?
Local: There's a tavern down the road (points) eight doors. it is a red brick building.

I changed it. The people in the CS can read and write,but the government is very,very particular about what they read and write. And they do not have a list of banned books,they have a list of allowed books.If you put a book on a banned list,then people start to wonder about it,and just putting it on a list makes people aware of its existence.

That's a cool approach, though I like the high tech and low literacy sort of contrast.

Thanks for the help. I especially like the Grade 3 & under reading levels.

Or the same way my 4 year or nephrew knew we are at mcdonalds not from reading the sign, but knowing the sysmbol of the arch. One of the books I'm petty sure goes into that CS uses alot of sysmbols can't rememeber which though.

General_Sarkoff wrote:I ignore it since an illiterate yet high tech society is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard of.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

General_Sarkoff wrote:I ignore it since an illiterate yet high tech society is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard of.

Why?

Mouser13 wrote:Or the same way my 4 year or nephrew knew we are at mcdonalds not from reading the sign, but knowing the sysmbol of the arch. One of the books I'm petty sure goes into that CS uses alot of sysmbols can't rememeber which though.

Exactly, my niece does the same thing when we drive past a Ford dealer. "That's Grampa's Car Store!" she shouts, refering to the Ford logo on my dad's mustang and the logo over the ford dealer.

Despite what we have been told, reading is not necessarily fundamental, symbol/pattern recognition IS!

Somebody asked earlier, so here it is:
You can find great background info on the CS in Sourcebook one (both original and revised, I stick to the original myself), including their illiteracy policy.

Daunlander wrote:One of the keys to the CS illiteracy is that once you have the population keyed to your symbol recognition, you can modify/change the perception of those symbols at will; therefore, you can change public opinion very quickly. Ergo, "Quebec is bad!" can quickly be changed to "Quebec was just misunderstood!" to "Quebec is our staunch ally and always has been!" Since the people are atleast functionally illiterate they will believe whatever the talking heads on the news tell them. They lose their culture/ corporate memory. This also allows Prosek's business cronies to change fashions at a whim, thus creating new markets and making the people feel better-"Why look at all the stuff you have! Those ignorant savages in the outside world don't have near the stuff you do." It's a classic 20th century ploy. I believe it was Himmler who said, "Tell the big lie often enough and it becomes the truth."

Are you a history or English teacher? Very nicely put. That's the basis of a lot of Sci-Fi I read and play, where the people slowly but surely put their trust in the instant information sources (TV) and abandon books. Or books are outright banned by the leading faction, because books are permanent, word of mouth can be tweaked until the truth is distorted totally. I envision the Prosek family using 1984 as their "Bible" totally empathising with "the Party" and trying to run their country based on those ideals.

With a PFRPG background, it's easy to remember

nameneeded wrote:How many GM's stay true to illiteracy? Its easy to forget.

I don't see how.
Just don't have people reading stuff.

Think about it for a minute.
For an average person on an average day, how much reading is needed?
E-mail: replace with short, streaming videos
Text Messaging: no cell phones (or simply have cell phones without texting)

You might read signs when you're driving, but not as often as you think.
You know a stop sign when you see one; you don't have to read "stop" every time. Take the word away, people would still know what the sign meant.
Same with other traffic indicators.

Street signs get replaced with either emblems or numbers.
Karl Prosek Avenue might just have a picture of Prosek on the signs that lets people know what street they're on.
Or streets might be indicated with numbers or letters or symbols.
You don't have to be literate to meet somebody on the corner of A and 9, or the corner of # and ? or whatever.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

nameneeded wrote:How many GM's stay true to illiteracy? Its easy to forget.

I don't see how.
Just don't have people reading stuff.

Think about it for a minute.
For an average person on an average day, how much reading is needed?
E-mail: replace with short, streaming videos
Text Messaging: no cell phones (or simply have cell phones without texting)

You might read signs when you're driving, but not as often as you think.
You know a stop sign when you see one; you don't have to read "stop" every time. Take the word away, people would still know what the sign meant.
Same with other traffic indicators.

Street signs get replaced with either emblems or numbers.
Karl Prosek Avenue might just have a picture of Prosek on the signs that lets people know what street they're on.
Or streets might be indicated with numbers or letters or symbols.
You don't have to be literate to meet somebody on the corner of A and 9, or the corner of # and ? or whatever.

Or the streets could simply be unlabled as they are in Japan (makes it hard for an invading enemy to find their way around).

Natasha wrote:

General_Sarkoff wrote:I ignore it since an illiterate yet high tech society is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard of.

Why?

Because where do the administrators and technicians come from? The United States ain't exactly the most literate society on Earth, but it gets by because enough of the population will show the aptitude and enthusiasm to do the jobs that require higher education.

In the Coalition States though, the education of everyone except the administrative and elite classes is deliberately stunted. This means that virtually all the brainpower required to keep an incredibly complex high-tech civilization running has to come from the children of the priveleged few. It'd be like trying to find enough educated professionals (doctors, lawyers, judges, accountants, economists, engineers, scientists, administrators, commissioned officers, pilots, marketing executives, historians, archeologists, librarians etc etc) to meet the needs of the entire United States, except you're only allowed to put people from California through college.

Rallan wrote:

Natasha wrote:

General_Sarkoff wrote:I ignore it since an illiterate yet high tech society is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard of.

Why?

Because where do the administrators and technicians come from? The United States ain't exactly the most literate society on Earth, but it gets by because enough of the population will show the aptitude and enthusiasm to do the jobs that require higher education.

In the Coalition States though, the education of everyone except the administrative and elite classes is deliberately stunted. This means that virtually all the brainpower required to keep an incredibly complex high-tech civilization running has to come from the children of the priveleged few. It'd be like trying to find enough educated professionals (doctors, lawyers, judges, accountants, economists, engineers, scientists, administrators, commissioned officers, pilots, marketing executives, historians, archeologists, librarians etc etc) to meet the needs of the entire United States, except you're only allowed to put people from California through college.

You're making a huge assumption that the educated professionals in the CS NEED to be literate.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Rallan wrote:

Natasha wrote:

General_Sarkoff wrote:I ignore it since an illiterate yet high tech society is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard of.

Why?

Because where do the administrators and technicians come from? The United States ain't exactly the most literate society on Earth, but it gets by because enough of the population will show the aptitude and enthusiasm to do the jobs that require higher education.

In the Coalition States though, the education of everyone except the administrative and elite classes is deliberately stunted. This means that virtually all the brainpower required to keep an incredibly complex high-tech civilization running has to come from the children of the priveleged few. It'd be like trying to find enough educated professionals (doctors, lawyers, judges, accountants, economists, engineers, scientists, administrators, commissioned officers, pilots, marketing executives, historians, archeologists, librarians etc etc) to meet the needs of the entire United States, except you're only allowed to put people from California through college.

You're making a huge assumption that the educated professionals in the CS NEED to be literate.

You're making a huger assumption that it's possible to learn those professions, do them, and run companies, research divisions, army groups, and bureaucratic departments without literacy. Seriously dude, how can you do an illiterate mechatronics engineer? How do the illiterate bureaucrats keep records? How do the illiterate guys in tech support program computers and keep the communications network up? How does an illiterate physicist keep abreast of current theory? How do illiterate propaganda guys pass on assessments of the impact of their work to each other? How do the administrators of an illiterate police department keep criminal records?

I mean we all know that the connection between Rifts society/science/economics and reality is tenuous at best, but illiterate professionals and bureaucrats? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

TheDarkSaint wrote:Why have a library of books when you can have a computer draw up any information you are looking for and read it to you? You can do complex jobs very easily with a semi-intelligent computer to do the heavy lifting.

Ah, but who would maintain the computers? If they went with your idea, the whole society would have to rely on a small highly educated technical class of IT professionals, and the need to appoint people to that class based on their qualifications would make it difficult for the CS to ensure their loyalty by packing it with party loyalists. If they're paranoid enough to turn the bulk of the population into an uneducated underclass to keep it down, they'd easily be paranoid enough not to put the fate of the entire nation in the hands of an apolitical technocratic department.

Politically it'd be far better to just educate the entire upper class. It allows them to do their jobs better, it reduces the amount of power that the computer technicians have over the rest of society, and it gives the ruling elite a very tangible token of the privelege that they have over everyone else.

Rallan wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:You're making a huge assumption that the educated professionals in the CS NEED to be literate.

You're making a huger assumption that it's possible to learn those professions, do them, and run companies, research divisions, army groups, and bureaucratic departments without literacy. Seriously dude, how can you do an illiterate mechatronics engineer?

Why would you need literacy to be a mechanic/electrician?

How do the illiterate bureaucrats keep records?

Audio/video logs.
Numbers and tally sheets.

How do the illiterate guys in tech support program computers and keep the communications network up?

Why would they need to be literate to do that?

How does an illiterate physicist keep abreast of current theory?

Considering there are only probably a dozen physicists in the CS, he can call his buddies or attend a monthly meeting.

How do illiterate propaganda guys pass on assessments of the impact of their work to each other?

Not sure what exactly being a "propaganda guy" entails, or why they would need to pass on assessments of each other, or why they couldn't do it through audio/video recordings, or in person, or by phone.

How do the administrators of an illiterate police department keep criminal records?

Audio/video recordings, computers, etc.
Of course, there's lot less record-keeping when most offenses are punished by death.

I mean we all know that the connection between Rifts society/science/economics and reality is tenuous at best, but illiterate professionals and bureaucrats?

There have been professionals since before there was writing, so that's an odd comment.

As for bureaucrats, perhaps you are assuming that there are a lot more of them then there actually would be.
The CS is not the US (or any other modern nation).
They don't do things the same way we do.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

This does not surprise me.

nameneeded wrote:

TheDarkSaint wrote:Why have a library of books when you can have a computer draw up any information you are looking for and read it to you? You can do complex jobs very easily with a semi-intelligent computer to do the heavy lifting.

Want to try reading me a math proof on the existence of quarks? How about i just read you the formulea that enstein used to arrrive at the theory of relativity.

Literacy won't help you understand E=MC2 either.
That's mathematics, not literature.

People in the sciences NEED to be able to read. And how would any engineers and construction teams build/ createanything if they couldn't read the blueprintt?

You don't necessarily need to be literate to deal with blueprints.

not to defuse a flame war in progress or anything, but the jobs in the Coalition that absolutely require literacy are usually filled by the 'elite' citizens, which are literate. the CS is only worried about keeping the common masses ignorant.

glitterboy2098 wrote:not to defuse a flame war in progress or anything, but the jobs in the Coalition that absolutely require literacy are usually filled by the 'elite' citizens, which are literate. the CS is only worried about keeping the common masses ignorant.

And thank God for that, otherwise the books would've been cluttered up with ridiculous arguments about how bureaucrats and technical professionals can quite easily learn their professions, keep records, maintain reference works, compile data, and generally do their jobs without being literate

I think my favourite from this thread was someone asking why the guys who design, build, and code the CS computer network would need to be literate. That was even better than the whole "hey science and engineering is just numbers, right?" schtick some people were pulling

Even in our own history when in times of war education was suppressed, education went underground. Many of warlords and enemy commanders killed or arrested teachers when they took over. They feared the educated person and wanted to deter others. Sometimes they would bring in their own "teachers" to convert the students. Families took to educating their children secretly even if nothing more than to read and write. Surviving teachers held secret classes.

I play that these underground schools exist. Those willing to seek them out can learn more.

I usually play that most people can read and write at least at 6th grade level in cities. Oddly enough, some rural areas would have better educated persons as not under so much scrutiny. Also, many families required to learn to read from religious books like the Bible.

Don't forget many a dedicated librarians and historians have and would give their lives to protect books and documents. They may be resting in a yet undiscovered vault. Or have been reprinted and secretly dispersed.

And don’t forget in our history of the countless underground printing presses to inform the public at great risk to themselves.

Final thoughts: How could check your credit stick for the balance or even use it for that matter? How could you respond to public written notices? What about all the graffiti in words and sentences in a lot of Rifts illustrations? How could you know your ID, credentials and documents are in order to show the guards or CS police? Not everyone would have a computer read ID card.
And please do not forget that government bureaucrats just love paper work. Do you want to bring a nation to its knees? Well, here’s how: Invent a bomb on the scale of nuclear devastation that only destroys paper and nothing else.
And on that note, I Rest My Case...........Big Bob...................

Rallan wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:not to defuse a flame war in progress or anything, but the jobs in the Coalition that absolutely require literacy are usually filled by the 'elite' citizens, which are literate. the CS is only worried about keeping the common masses ignorant.

And thank God for that, otherwise the books would've been cluttered up with ridiculous arguments about how bureaucrats and technical professionals can quite easily learn their professions, keep records, maintain reference works, compile data, and generally do their jobs without being literate

Either way, your complaint is useless.

I think my favourite from this thread was someone asking why the guys who design, build, and code the CS computer network would need to be literate. That was even better than the whole "hey science and engineering is just numbers, right?" schtick some people were pulling

That would have been funny, if it had happened, and if it wasn't just a hallucination on your part.

bigbobsr6000 wrote:Final thoughts: How could check your credit stick for the balance or even use it for that matter?

By reading the numbers, which doesn't require literacy.

How could you respond to public written notices?

Why would they have public written notices?

What about all the graffiti in words and sentences in a lot of Rifts illustrations?

Criminals, obviously.

How could you know your ID, credentials and documents are in order to show the guards or CS police?

Do the books ever say that people have written IDs and documents?

Not everyone would have a computer read ID card.

Why not?

And please do not forget that government bureaucrats just love paper work. Do you want to bring a nation to its knees? Well, here’s how: Invent a bomb on the scale of nuclear devastation that only destroys paper and nothing else.
And on that note, I Rest My Case...........Big Bob...................

Perhaps they've cut down a bit on bureaucrats.
Less need for them in a dictatorship than in a democracy.

Thanks for the FB, Killer Cyborg. Why wouldn't everyone have a computer read ID card? For the simple fact that people travel around. Someone comming from an area without computers with little or no technology would not have one. That would be 100's of thousands of people not under CS control or living in CS cities but may want to travel and see Chi-Town. That's why.

Enjoy...........Big Bob.........

Killer Cyborg wrote:

bigbobsr6000 wrote:Final thoughts: How could check your credit stick for the balance or even use it for that matter?

By reading the numbers, which doesn't require literacy.

That is correct by READING the numbers. You have to be somewhat literate to do that.

Keep Gaming.................Big Bob..................... [/b]

bigbobsr6000 wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

bigbobsr6000 wrote:Final thoughts: How could check your credit stick for the balance or even use it for that matter?

By reading the numbers, which doesn't require literacy.

That is correct by READING the numbers. You have to be somewhat literate to do that.

Not really.
Just like you don't have to be literate to READ a lot of traffic signs.
Just like you don't have to be literate to READ emoticons.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

bigbobsr6000 wrote:

How could you respond to public written notices?

Why would they have public written.

In Mercs OPs book there is an illustration of mercs looking at a wanted poster on a pole with words on it. That's one example.

In reference to the graffiti about being done by criminals they still can read and write which means someone taught them. They didn't get up one morning and "Wow, I can now read and write." And if there is a few who can write these words on walls and read them, there must be many more who keep their ability secret and can teach others.

So, in my oppinion that proves there are literate people in the CS cities criminal or not. Where there are a few there could me many, many more.

Thanks for the FB and debate. This is what it is about, sharing ideas and comments to better our gaming experiences............Big Bob.............

Are they reading the poster or just recognising it is a WANTED poster with a credit reward number?

It is true also that some people know how to spell some words; that does not mean they can read. They've just memorised some symbols in arrangement.

I could "read" Washington long before I was literate.

I guess my real questions are:

1. Are you saying absolutely no one in all of Rifts is literate?

2. Are you saying that absolutely no one in all of CS and CS cities is lliterate?

3. Are you saying that underground schools cannot absolutely exist?

4. Are you saying magic users are not literate?

5. Why is there skills that allow characters to read and write any language at good to high % or to be literate? If PC's can get these skills why not NPC's?

6. Wouldn't some Rebels teach their children and others or is this absolutely out of the question?

7. Are you saying there are absolutely no books or written word?



So, if you agree there are no absolutes and there are at least few to some literate people in Rifts, CS and CS cities, then the POSSIBILITY exists that there are others who are literate. If this holds true then the POSSIBILITY exists some are teaching others.

Big Bob....................

bigbobsr6000 wrote:1. Are you saying absolutely no one in all of Rifts is literate?

2. Are you saying that absolutely no one in all of CS and CS cities is lliterate?

3. Are you saying that underground schools cannot absolutely exist?

No to all.

bigbobsr6000 wrote:4. Are you saying magic users are not literate?

I don't know if they have to be to be mages. Like the rogue scientist, it's probably such that most are literate.

bigbobsr6000 wrote:5. Why is there skills that allow characters to read and write any language at good to high % or to be literate? If PC's can get these skills why not NPC's?

Sure. The idea is that most don't have LIteracy skill.

bigbobsr6000 wrote:6. Wouldn't some Rebels teach their children and others or is this absolutely out of the question?

Not out of the question. It's an interesting dimension to Rifts that I find really cool.

bigbobsr6000 wrote:7. Are you saying there are absolutely no books or written word?

No.

bigbobsr6000 wrote:So, if you agree there are no absolutes and there are at least few to some literate people in Rifts, CS and CS cities, then the POSSIBILITY exists that there are others who are literate. If this holds true then the POSSIBILITY exists some are teaching others.

In the CS they do so with great risk.
Interesting dimension of the game, isn't it.

bigbobsr6000 wrote:Big Bob....................

bigbobsr6000 wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

bigbobsr6000 wrote: How could you respond to public written notices?

Why would they have public written notices.

In Mercs OPs book there is an illustration of mercs looking at a wanted poster on a pole with words on it. That's one example.

Perhaps you have a different copy of Merc Ops than I do, because I can't find any such illustration in my book.

But let's pretend that there IS such an illustration.
What makes you think that the mercs are CS citizens, or that they're in CS territory?

In reference to the graffiti about being done by criminals they still can read and write which means someone taught them. They didn't get up one morning and "Wow, I can now read and write."

I'm guessing you've never heard of the Rogue Scholar OCC...?

And if there is a few who can write these words on walls and read them, there must be many more who keep their ability secret and can teach others.

How do you figure?

First, thanks to all for your FB.

And if there is a few who can write these words on walls and read them, there must be many more who keep their ability secret and can teach others.

How do you figure?

Answer: Odds of probability on shear number of the population.

Perhaps you have a different copy of Merc Ops than I do, because I can't find any such illustration in my book.
But let's pretend that there IS such an illustration.
What makes you think that the mercs are CS citizens, or that they're in CS territory?

Sorry, you are correct. The wanted posters are on the cover of Rifts: Mercenaries Book and Rifts: Merc Town Book. Both have words, lots of them. One states "Wanted for crimes against the Coaltition" or words to that effect. (I am recovering from foot surgery, difficult to get around and get books.)

Thanks, again..............Big Bob............

I'm guessing you've never heard of the Rogue Scholar OCC...?

Yes I have and have used it. However, that is just one. That doesn't account for all the others who are possibily literate.

Big Bob................

In the CS they do so with great risk. Interesting dimension of the game, isn't it.

Yes it is. One could build an adventure or campaign around this concept. On Coalition side, squads are assigned to ferret out any underground schools or highly educated unregistered persons. On the other, avoiding detection, moving meeting places, etc.

Or, a stash of books have been rumored to be in/at ________________ area protected by _____________________. Dedicated scholars hire Mercs to help them retrieve them. Coalition got word and are sending a squad to the area. Even a band of treasure seekers might go for them to sell on black market or highest bidder. Or, maybe the Coalition has put out a bounty on each book given to them.

So, what do you all think about this idea??

This is the kind of great ideas that can come from such discussions and get vastly different oppinions to fuel the creative juices.

Remember, there could be an "Intelligent Color Of Blue" watching us..............hee, hee, hee.........Big Bob.............

I like it.

Sounds like a mission I had planned if I ever run Rifts game - doesn't seem likely but hey it was fun planning it.

Natasha wrote:I like it.

Sounds like a mission I had planned if I ever run Rifts game - doesn't seem likely but hey it was fun planning it.

Then use the concept for another RPG. The books could be rare or unique Tomes, Ancient wizard spell books at/in______________________ guarded by_____________________. A group of scholarly wizards hires a band of hereos to seek them out. Evil forces are at work to prevent this and get the books for themselves. Treasure hunters are seeking them to sell to highest bidder good or evil.

Thanks for the FB, Big Bob.......................

bigbobsr6000 wrote:

Natasha wrote:I like it.

Sounds like a mission I had planned if I ever run Rifts game - doesn't seem likely but hey it was fun planning it.

Then use the concept for another RPG. The books could be rare or unique Tomes, Ancient wizard spell books at/in______________________ guarded by_____________________. A group of scholarly wizards hires a band of hereos to seek them out. Evil forces are at work to prevent this and get the books for themselves. Treasure hunters are seeking them to sell to highest bidder good or evil.

Thanks for the FB, Big Bob.......................

I am not opposed to this at all. It's a good idea.

I would rather run this mission as a Rifts mission though.

In any case such hunting quests will not be soon since they just got done rounding up some Black jelly in Timiro Kingdom swamps. Gotta really be careful handling that stuff.

bigbobsr6000 wrote:

I'm guessing you've never heard of the Rogue Scholar OCC...?

Yes I have and have used it. However, that is just one. That doesn't account for all the others who are possibily literate.

Right.
The Rogue Scholars would be those people who are teaching others to read.

bigbobsr6000 wrote:First, thanks to all for your FB.

And if there is a few who can write these words on walls and read them, there must be many more who keep their ability secret and can teach others.

How do you figure?

Answer: Odds of probability on shear number of the population.

I'll be more specific.
How do you figure that, for every street punk who can spray paint a brief phrase on an alley wall, there have to be many more out there who are not only literate, but literate enough to read.

It'd be the other way around.
For every dozen semi-literate punks, there'd be one or two people who are literate enough to teach.
Because one teacher can teach a dozen students; it doesn't take a dozen fully literate people to teach one punk to be semi-literate.

Also, the artwork in the books is just flavor; it isn't canon.

The wanted posters are on the cover of Rifts: Mercenaries Book and Rifts: Merc Town Book. Both have words, lots of them. One states "Wanted for crimes against the Coaltition" or words to that effect. (I am recovering from foot surgery, difficult to get around and get books.)

Thanks, again..............Big Bob............

Let me know when you know exactly what it says.

Also, the artwork in the books is just flavor; it isn't canon.

Quote:
The wanted posters are on the cover of Rifts: Mercenaries Book and Rifts: Merc Town Book. Both have words, lots of them. One states "Wanted for crimes against the Coaltition" or words to that effect. (I am recovering from foot surgery, difficult to get around and get books.)

Thanks, again..............Big Bob............


Let me know when you know exactly what it says.

Rits Mercenaries poster states:

WANTED
DEAD OR ALIVE
FOR CRIMES AGAINST THE COALITION STATE
(left profile pic) (front face pic)
Under left profile pic: P125977AAB9-11
HEINRICH (rest of line is obscured by Merc in front)
next line the letters conver (obscured)
Then there is a paragraph in smaller print unreadable
Bottom can se "RE (obscured)
Below that 150,0 (obscured)

Please note all (obscured) is merely blocked by Mercs in front of poster.

The one on Rifrs: Merc Town states:

WANTED
DEAD OR ALIVE
FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY
(picture of him) (picture of brain in statis)
DR. THADEUS VON SAV(torn)
(six lines of legiable/readable words using english alphbet in another language)
PRATICE EXTREME CAUTION WHEN CON(torn)
REWAR(torn)
2,750,000,000,000,(torn)

So, if people are not literate, why have reward posters like this? It was important enough to make the covers. May not be a so called "canon", but someone at Palladium made a conscience decission to put these written posters on the covers.

But you have your beliefs and I have mine and we will never convince the other of our take on the matter. So, let us just agree to disagree, ok?

Thanks again for your input.

Big Bob.........................

bigbobsr6000 wrote:So, if people are not literate, why have reward posters like this?

Well, for one thing, it's not that "people" are illiterate; it's that general CS citizens are illiterate.
Granted, the general population of the world tends to be illiterate too, but the CS specifically tries to keep the people that way.
So only the first poster is relevant.

And there's nothing indicating that this poster was located within CS territory.
So the obvious explanation would be that the CS uses posters in places where the general population might be literate.

It was important enough to make the covers. May not be a so called "canon", but someone at Palladium made a conscience decission to put these written posters on the covers.

Decision?
Yes.
Conscious?
Maybe, maybe not.

But you have your beliefs and I have mine and we will never convince the other of our take on the matter. So, let us just agree to disagree, ok?

What are your beliefs?
That even though the books describe people as being illiterate, and even though the books list teaching people to read as being illegal in CS territory, and even though people who can read (but who are not part of the CS aristocracy) are viewed with suspicion, that literacy is actually common...?

What are your beliefs?
That even though the books describe people as being illiterate, and even though the books list teaching people to read as being illegal in CS territory, and even though people who can read (but who are not part of the CS aristocracy) are viewed with suspicion, that literacy is actually common...?

Yes, in my belief a super high tech society cannot exist without literacy. I view all rules in all RPGs as guidelines and not hard have to follow rules absolultly. I have been GMing for about 30 years. If something does not fit to me I ignore it or alter it. Almost all the gaming books and authors state: "If you do not like something in the game do not use it or change it to fit your gaming style and players." That's what I have done since day one. I loose a lot of "rules' lawyers", but that is fine with me.

First and foremost I let my players know any and all changes and house rules up front so all know my gaming style. I have a core of loyal gamers and I game 1-3 times a week running different RPGs on the fly without any notes. I keep all my sessions in my head and can instantly pick-up where we left off last sesseion.

I really like our debate over this issue, but I think we are "Just laser blasting a dead T-Rex." to coin a phrase.

Thanks for your time and thoughts, I disagree with you, but I would defend your right to disagree with my life.

Big Bob..............................

bigbobsr6000 wrote:

What are your beliefs?
That even though the books describe people as being illiterate, and even though the books list teaching people to read as being illegal in CS territory, and even though people who can read (but who are not part of the CS aristocracy) are viewed with suspicion, that literacy is actually common...?

Yes

'Nuff said.

You're wrong.
And it doesn't make sense for you to claim that the RULES are wrong, and that the PICTURES are right.

Thanks for your time and thoughts, I disagree with you, but I would defend your right to disagree with my life.

Big Bob..............................

You're wrong.
And it doesn't make sense for you to claim that the RULES are wrong, and that the PICTURES are right.

I never said the rules are wrong because of the pictures. I said I do not agree with the rules period. Never have way before the pictures were published. And I have never said "you were wrong" about anything. This is FANTASY role-playing, you cannot be wrong about anything. Why can't my Rifts Earth be different on another dimension? Isn't there room for multiple Rifts Earths even where the Coalition is good and cares for all their people? I have an imagination and I can see beyond rules. I can see unlimited "what ifs". I am not bound by rules in fantasy games of any kind. Even as a kid I changed Monopoly rules, Chess rules, Checker rules, etc.

I have never and would never tell anybody "You're wrong" when it comes to fantasy games. I may disagree. One of my gamers and close friends disagrees with me all the time about RPG rules. We debate, friendly argue, be we can see each others point of view and admit the possibility of infinite alternate worlds, events, galaxies, etc..

I hope you don't limit yourself to what the rules say and cannot accept the infinite possibility of ............?????? Well, that's for you to decide....

Big Bob………………………………

bigbobsr6000 wrote:

You're wrong.
And it doesn't make sense for you to claim that the RULES are wrong, and that the PICTURES are right.

I never said the rules are wrong because of the pictures.

I never said that you did.

I said I do not agree with the rules period. Never have way before the pictures were published.

So the pictures are irrelevant.

And I have never said "you were wrong" about anything. This is FANTASY role-playing, you cannot be wrong about anything.

Wrong again.