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gadrin wrote:okay, what's your take on "magic Fire" ?

Just what is magic fire ? I'm thinking it's fire that's created by a spell, right ?

So, we take the spell Impervious to Fire which is pretty good, except that "magic fire" still does 1/2 damage. Huh ? The psi-power is the same.

So then you look at Circle of Flame it only does SDC. Or is it supposed to be MDC ? All those other Fire spells do MD, why not this one ?

But regardless it'll still do 1/2 damage because it's magical in nature. Except if you've got MDC armor right ? MDC armor will provide complete protection vs SDC damage.

That's how it works.

So what's your question?

Magic fire is fire that is magic.
Just like a magic sword is a sword that is magic.

The physical nature of the fire, or the sword, is unchanged... except that it is also magic.

Personally I Think it is just bad conversion like how bad they made the golemn in RIFTS vs PRRPG. When from what 600 S.D.C. to 80M.D.C just was bad.

gadrin wrote:yeah, but it only gives magic bonus to fire.

are fire warlocks creating magical fire ? aren't they just using an element ? but somehow when they or a mage use it, it becomes MD and now goes above and beyond the element.

Because it's magic.

Magic Water or Magic Earth doesn't exist, but magic fire is different, it's magic, but not necessarily MD but it still does...whatever.

Hm.
Well, you could have magical water, it's just that it wouldn't be that useful.
Although there are magical mists, and magical ice attacks.
You DO have magical Earth, though. Like with the spell "Throwing Stones".

Gravitus Everlast wrote:again, its the MAGIC. Magic damage is only SDC if everything else is SDC, but the minute an MDC being or structure steps into the scene, magic or holy are the only weapons you have that will even make MDC flinch.

There are magic spells that do SDC, even against MDC creatures.

Gravitus Everlast wrote:Magic water not that usefull? Take the Brewing Skill and use water from the previously mentioned Ley Line enriched body of water and make alcohol out of it. After it ferments for a little while, it becomes the alcoholic equivelent of PSY COLA... but instead of the addictive ingredient being the caffine of the soda, its the mood altering ALCOHOL that gets you. You thought psy cola was scary, wait till the RAGE kicks in and the drunk starts throwing people from accross the room as the bar spontainiously combusts.

You're drinking it now, aren't you...?

Well, Their is that magical water in the second alantis book.

Don't forget the magical water in the VK book.

gadrin wrote:
are fire warlocks creating magical fire ?

Depends upon the wording of the spell.

Usually, flame that isn't stated as otherwise, is normal flame.

Of course, one can safely assume that any non-bonfire or greater flame, that still does MDC, is magical.

aren't they just using an element ?

Again, depends primarily upon the wording of the spell -and sometimes in the flavor text.

For example, a flame that stays active for hours/days/weeks/years/decades, without external fuel.

but somehow when they or a mage use it, it becomes MD and now goes above and beyond the element.

Once again, wording is important and so are the clues.

MOST natural fires, regardless of size, don't inflict MD. Therefore, a small flame that can knock out a tank?? Probably magic.

Magic Water or Magic Earth doesn't exist, but magic fire is different, it's magic, but not necessarily MD but it still does...whatever.

Don't know where you're getting that from.

There are spells from all of the Elements, that have MD-effects, and those effects furthermore occur in places where the natural element NEVER causes megadamage.

Strong circumstancial evidence for magical energy in such cases, don't you think??

I can see MD fire and spells, since MD is part of the game, but why magical fire is suddenly special seems rather dense. It's part of the megaverse logic that's beyond me and to tell you the truth, I'm not really looking for the answer to it either

From what I hear tell, magical fire/wind/air/water comes in pretty handy against normally invulnerable foes.

Bloodspray wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:From what I hear tell, magical fire/wind/air/water comes in pretty handy against normally invulnerable foes.

Earth, Wind and Fire can help boost your seduction rolls too.

I don't have Seduction Rolls.

I have the HU Super Power of Awesome Animal Magnetism (for the opposite sex only; sorry fellas ) at 98%.

Unfortunately for me, my high PB Score prevents me from turning it off, even when I want to.

Being handsome is sometimes a curse that I have to bear, you know.

Then there is the Elemental Fusionist OCC (I think that's it) in RUE. The fire/water one can set the surface of water on fire. So, now we have magic burning water and even magic burning sweat. (Yes it says he can set the surface of his sweat on fire.)

So, I agree Magic Fire is fire of magical source and acts differently than real physical fire. If Magic Fire is treated same as actuall real fire then what's the point of it. I could just carry around various devices/weapons that spit fireballs, throws flames, fire bomb grenades, incendary rounds, etc. Why would I need "Magic Fire" then. Also, if Magic Fire is treated the same it would not have any effect on the supernatural and magical beings, etc. OR, If it is the same as normal fire then normal fire would effect those creatures as well. You can't have it both ways. (Unless you say anything is possible in Fantasy Role Playing as it is "Fantasy" after all. Then all this stuff is just a moot point. )

Gravitus Everlast wrote:what does it do? the magic water in the second atlantis book...

Not, forsure but believe it was a low P.P.E. restorer believe it was 40 shot.

gadrin wrote:looks like everyone misunderstood: I meant magic water like magic fire, an element that's magically special. you don't still take 1/2 damage from a magic waterball or wave.

Only because there's no "Impervious to Water" spell.
If there was, you'd still take 1/2 damage from magic water.

gadrin wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

gadrin wrote:looks like everyone misunderstood: I meant magic water like magic fire, an element that's magically special. you don't still take 1/2 damage from a magic waterball or wave.

Only because there's no "Impervious to Water" spell.
If there was, you'd still take 1/2 damage from magic water.

my point being Magic Fire is some uber-form of fire, but it's the only element like that. none of the other elements are similar.

sure there's MD concrete or water enchanted with magic properties, but there's no uber-earth or uber-air.

And my point is that there IS, it just doesn't really come up.

Throwing Stones creates "Magic Stone."
Create Air creates "Magic Air."
Circle of Rain creates "Magic Water."

It just doesn't come up much, because the only element that has "Impervious to _______" spells is the element of fire.

In short, you're wrong, and you're making a mountain out of an imaginary molehill.

gadrin wrote:APS-Fire or CEF-Fire can't get that much out of the element, can they ?

Of course not; they're not magic.

gadrin wrote::lol: that's hilarious

Magic Fire is well... dumb. There's no need for it.

Throwing Stones creates "Magic Stone."

so? armor protects FULLY against it. there's no "MD armor only protects half against Magic Stone & Earth" rule.

MD armor protects fully against Magic Fire, as well. It's only when you have a protection against fire that doesn't extend to other kinds of damage that magic fire is more effective. That would lead to the conclusion that it is the magic element that leads to it being "uber", not any physical aspect of it.... that the damage from "magic fire" is not strictly fire-related, and that not all forms of protection against fire can compensate for that.

Then get rid of it.

While it hasn't been spelled out, there's a pretty clear rationale behind it. If you don't like it, change it.

gadrin wrote::lol: that's hilarious

Magic Fire is well... dumb. There's no need for it.

Tell that to a mage.

Throwing Stones creates "Magic Stone."

so? armor protects FULLY against it. there's no "MD armor only protects half against Magic Stone & Earth" rule.

Armor doesn't protect against it any better or worse than any other attack.
Just like armor doesn't protect against magical fire any worse or better than any other attack.
The attack does damage, the armor takes damage, end of story.

There aren't any "MD armor only protects half against Magic Stone/Earth" rules, and I suppose I should stress this since you keep missing it, because there isn't any armor that has special protection against Earth attacks in the first place.

So it never comes up.
But if, for some reason, there was some armor that took no damage from Earth attacks, then it would likely still take 1/2 damage from Magic Earth.

you still don't get it. I'm talking about the element in general, not about some cheesy spell effect.

You're right; I don't get it.
No idea what you're trying to say here.

I understand that Palladium thinks magic fire is uber. It's not just fire, it's magic fire. oooohhh! I'm just saying: why bother ? I go with the logic that psionics that produces a physical effect like Pyro-K or magic that does the same thing, produces an ordinary element.

Period.

There's no need for magic fire.

There isn't "need" for half of anything in Rifts.
But it's there.

Why bother?
Because that's how they want their game to work.
Magical attacks are often more powerful than normal attacks.
An iron sword can't cut mega-damage armor, but a magical iron sword can.
A ball of normal fire can't hurt somebody who is Impervious to Fire, but magical fire can.
That's just how magic works.

You don't have to like it, and you don't have to use it, but your complaints are making a big deal over something that isn't any sort of deal at all.

gadrin wrote:Cheesy Spell Effects and Confusion with "Magic" Fire

Circle of Flame -- creates "magic" fire right ? or does it ? since it's only SDC damage. Or is that a typo ? Now since it's SDC does it still do 1/2 damage thru MDC armor which of course means nothing ? Gotta think it's a typo by the time I get to this point. It's either "magic" fire that's not very good or just regular fire. But wait it's created by magic so don't the rules for "still take half damage from magical fire" count ...

Extinguish Fire -- does this work on "Magic" Fire too ? I mean this is actually Magical Extinguish Fire, or is Extinguish Magic Fire different ? Cool though, I can put out a Burster or APS:Fire guy who have much more power over the fire element than most mages, Warlocks not included.

Now do you get it ?

No.
It's pretty obvious that Circle of Flame is magical, and it's pretty obvious that Extinguish Fire works on magic fire too.

Your confusion seems bizarre and/or deliberate.

gadrin wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:that Extinguish Fire works on magic fire too.

Your confusion seems bizarre and/or deliberate.

well, that's what I used to think with Palladium but half the time you get a different answer depending on who you talk to.

I didn't write this stuff.

Your willingness to accept their writeup is good for you, but it doesn't do me much good. I see lots of holes and potential for problems.

all I know is they make a distinction, but its buried deep and isn't always obvious that the next thing you read concerning that area means the same thing.

its like how do you find out that Dimensional Envelope isn't moveable?, well it's in the description under Dimensional Pocket (for some reason). It's there but it's not obvious. Half the people on this board use it the rest don't and maybe don't care. I've seen plenty like that.

I agree that Palladium has a LOT of problems with their product.
Which is why I'm puzzled by you latching onto something that isn't one.

all I'm saying is the distinction made for magical fire seems like another tidbit I really don't need.

Cool; don't use it.

But don't pretend that it's some great enigma or anything.

gadrin wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:
Cool; don't use it.

But don't pretend that it's some great enigma or anything.

well, what's funny is that I said that a few times, but it never sank in, so I wasn't the one perceiving a great enigma.

You're the one who can't seem to make sense of it.

I couldn't put it any plainer and I still got: "But what about magic rock spell #15 and the water with stuff in them" and so on.

Actually, I don't think you ever did say that.

Closest was when you said that you weren't looking for anybody to explain it to you.