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moab wrote:ok... i am a newbish GM. (gaming for a while but still new to GMing)

a guy i know keeps playing temprel wizard. he is level 4. he meta-games...

example, he casts a spell that lets him store PPE in a small ball of energy for 2 hrs. ok whatever i said. he sits at a lay line for a whole day collecting PPE in this ball. while he keeps recasting this ball and simply transfering the PPE over to the new one.

now he has unlimited PPE... and knows a **** load of spells. i want him to die now... GM is mad because he keeps taking over my game... how do i kill him legally. no rule 0 is needed in said process.

by the way, he got a hold of a spell book and he knows YES spells... and invulnerability.

im not one to restrict classes at all, and i ALWAYS let people roll 1D4 to decide on there starting level. I will not change that at all. but i do want a bag of tricks to kill meta-gamers.

by the way, when i say meta-gamer, i mean boarder line power-gamer! ITS ALMOST CHEATING THE WAY THIS DUDE DOES ALL THIS CRAP AND ITS ALL LEGAL! I CHECKED (X_X)

Hm.

I'm not sure that his use of Energy Sphere (assuming that's what he's using) is legit. It costs 120 PPE to cast; how fast does he regain PPE?

In any case, the first thing I'd toss at him, if I was pissed and wanted to screw with the character or kill it, would be a ley line storm.

The CS normally sends S & D squads after people sitting on ley lines.

Alejandro wrote:Anti-magic cloud will really ruin this guy's day.

The Beast wrote:The CS normally sends S & D squads after people sitting on ley lines.

Also, how's this guy stand up to psionics? Mind Control can be really unpleasant.

Keldane wrote:

Rallan wrote:Because the GM's not doing his job apparently. If a player character's running around with limitless PPE and virtually every spell in the game, it's because the game's being ran by a GM who lets crap players have their way.

No offense, but the way you phrased that seemed more like an attack on moab than an explanation.

As much as it sucks, it may be necessary to simply say "I know the spell doesn't state a limit on the amount of PPE you can absorb, and for the sake of balance, I'm putting a cap of (insert a suitable number here) on it." If the player objects, then steer the game away from the ley line, and throw stuff in his path to make him deplete his store of energy. If he refuses to leave the ley line, leave him behind.

Of course, if his power has already become too legendary, you could throw some big nasty PPE-sniffing demonic beast at him, and force him to fight for his life against something no mortal could hope to defeat.

Players generally don't like it when you change the rules as written to limit stuff they've already got. And it's understandable that they don't like it, because after-the-fact nerfing is kinda cheap.

The real problem is with letting them accumulate so much awesomeness in the first place. GMs need to learn how to avoid the "monty haul" problem, where they run the game in a way that makes it ridiculously easy for PCs to pick up ridiculous amounts of ridiculously powerful stuff.

I mean let's just use the spell list as an example. Characters need to learn spells. They can figure out a few as they gain experience levels, but all the rest need to be taught. Don't want a character to have a spell list as long as your arm? The simple solution is not to let him learn those spells in the first place. Spellcasters who know spells X, Y, and Z don't just grow on trees. And spellcasters who know those spells and are willing to teach them are even rarer. Most of them won't teach anyone except their own friends and students, or people in their own mystical guild/club/union/school/whatever. A player shouldn't be able to just announce "Okay I'm gonna find someone to teach my character spells X, Y, and Z" whenever his character waltzes into any old town, just like a player shouldn't be able to just announce "Okay I'll find the gun store and buy guns A, B, and C" whenever his character waltzes into any old town.

Obviously the advice is a bit too late for the current campaign, but when another campaign comes up (or if the player can be convinced that his character's too dang powerful), it'll be worth keeping in mind. The best two ways to prevent rampant twinkery in a game are to limit options during character creation, and make sure the player characters aren't given anything during the course of the campaign that you don't want to give them. Don't want them to have lots of spells? Don't give them opportunities to learn them. Don't want them to have a particular kind of badass gun or robot or bionic implant? Make sure none of the locals are selling it.

The kind of power he is wielding would attract all kinds of nastiness some have been described. Even some demi-gods and deities might take an interest. Some Demons and D-Bees eat/absorb such creatures of or in possession of such power. Long exposure to a ley line would result in save vs insanity in my game sometimes.

Also, another in house rule I have used is NPC/PC's can only store up to 3 times their base PPE/ISP. If they are at max, then another immediate or long term exposure would double or triple what ever PPE they have and if it is beyond the max of 3 times their base PPE/ISP they go into a coma, no save regardless of their powers or abilities. Its like instant brain or “PPE/ISP battery” overload. They stay that way until removed from the ley line. Then after three non-consecutive successful save of save vs coma, only then do they wake up at 10% of their HP/MDC all SDC is at zero. The roll is only allowed once per day. Plus, their PPE/ISP is at zero. They have to take the time to regain their PPE/ISP back to normal base level. If they insist on going back to a ley line in this weakend state, they run the risk of death (Save vs death). I call all this mess "Ley Line Sickness". They are not cured untill their PPS/ISP is restored through normal rest. No magic, potions, devices will work until they are cured normally.

Ley lines should be and are (if played right) powerful and dangerous places. Only exception to this is creatures that have ley line travel of some kind. But, even they must not stick around long before and after travel. Ley line storms, rifts, portals, monsters who linger near ley lines to feed on "passer-bys", etc. The nastiness at or near ley lines is limitless. As is long exposure to ley lines.

All this tends to deter NPC/PC's from trying things like your problem character.

Good luck, Big Bob………………………….

Generally anything over 500 ppe is wicked high. if he gets over 100 he should be a target. if he gets over 10,000, nuke him from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

Or at least sub orbit.

I'm not entirely sure I understand this situation. A character can hold 3 times their max PPE for 1 minute per PE point, and the spell Energy Sphere can hold 100 per level and costs 120 to cast. A temporal warrior's base PPE is going to be what? 120 PPE? Filling up multiple energy spheres with the maximum he can hold isn't instantaneous; drawing that much PPE takes time at ley lines, and with PE as its limiting attribute, it suggests that it's also physically draining. Your GM should start imposing fatigue negatives on him whenever he attempts this.

As to beating him when he's full up on PPE from multiple energy spheres, hit him with something worse. An adult dragon will still generally have more PPE, or maybe have something cast anti-magic cloud when this guy's around. Even if he makes the high save, his magic will only function at 1/2 strength, and anti-magic clouds drain energy spheres within their area of effect fast.

moab wrote:I will not change that at all. but i do want a bag of tricks to kill meta-gamers.

Which would be meta gaming in itself.

It's bad for him to do it, but it's okay for you?

Think about it. If you love being immersed in the game world and such, how is it going to help to work up a bunch of meta game tricks to kill someone who clearly doesn't like being immersed as much as you.

Yes, he doesn't like being immersed like you, otherwise he wouldn't be working the system this hard.

Explain to him what you like about immersion or whatever it actually is you like about being right in the game.

If he doesn't like it, then you can't functionally play with him.

System doesn't work this way - you can't use system to make someone like something when they don't like it at all to begin with.

Edit: Also, think about whether your copying the way parents or teachers punish behaviour they don't want. I don't know how old you are, but don't bother doing the same thing your parents or teachers have. It doesn't work because this guy is your peer - your not his teacher, your not his dad. Dad & teacher techniques wont work on a peer.

the greatest treasure any muchkin can ask for Christmas from the hogfather . A large sword with ever spell in book that can be cast 6 times daily, a intelligence of 12, which has a great personality and cannot take over the owners body.. oh, and the sword will fight off the bad guys while the owner sleep if a thief tries to steal the sword with out waking the owner.

the down side: it sucks out your soul slowly leaving only a mindless husk.. But it will be sad that your gone. from this point on someone will need to feed him, wipe his butt and put him out of his unknown misery.

Meta-gaming isn't really about power levels, but about playing your character as if it is the player, with the player's knowledge of the rule system and personal knowledge, including that of the RPG books, which the character shouldn't know.

As an example, if a player recognizes spells being used against him and has his character act in such a way to counteract them, despite the character knowing nothing about magic, that's meta-gaming.

Talavar wrote:As to beating him when he's full up on PPE from multiple energy spheres, hit him with something worse. An adult dragon will still generally have more PPE, or maybe have something cast anti-magic cloud when this guy's around. Even if he makes the high save, his magic will only function at 1/2 strength, and anti-magic clouds drain energy spheres within their area of effect fast.

If you want to be even more evil, check out the Rifter RCC in the Index and Adventures Volume 1. Now that is something guaranteed to ruin his day.

the best way I can think of, is to realize that the game probably isn't centered around that ley line. Thus move the game on without him. Let him sit and stew in his PPE and just go back to him every hour or so and tell him that he is still collecting energy and casting spells, then go back to the group in the middle of their adventure. A couple sessions like that should get the hint across.

Bloodspray wrote:

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:Generally anything over 500 ppe is wicked high. if he gets over 100 he should be a target. if he gets over 10,000, nuke him from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

Considering that a 1st level Line Walker could have as much as 224 ppe to start, and gain as much as 18 per level after that (so a 5 level LLW could have as much as 296), that would seem to make EVERY mage a "target" everywhere they walked. And all supernatural creatures as well.

Yeah, and a 1st level grunt could have 24 in all stats too! I hate to break it to you dude, but if people actually roll stuff and don't cheat, 224PPE is about what you'd expect a typical 7th-10th level Line Walker to have.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

moab wrote:ok... i am a newbish GM. (gaming for a while but still new to GMing)

a guy i know keeps playing temprel wizard. he is level 4. he meta-games...

example, he casts a spell that lets him store PPE in a small ball of energy for 2 hrs. ok whatever i said. he sits at a lay line for a whole day collecting PPE in this ball. while he keeps recasting this ball and simply transfering the PPE over to the new one.

now he has unlimited PPE... and knows a **** load of spells. i want him to die now... GM is mad because he keeps taking over my game... how do i kill him legally. no rule 0 is needed in said process.

by the way, he got a hold of a spell book and he knows YES spells... and invulnerability.

im not one to restrict classes at all, and i ALWAYS let people roll 1D4 to decide on there starting level. I will not change that at all. but i do want a bag of tricks to kill meta-gamers.

by the way, when i say meta-gamer, i mean boarder line power-gamer! ITS ALMOST CHEATING THE WAY THIS DUDE DOES ALL THIS CRAP AND ITS ALL LEGAL! I CHECKED (X_X)

Hm.

I'm not sure that his use of Energy Sphere (assuming that's what he's using) is legit. It costs 120 PPE to cast; how fast does he regain PPE?

In any case, the first thing I'd toss at him, if I was pissed and wanted to screw with the character or kill it, would be a ley line storm.

Well, 60 P.P.E. per min at a ley-line per new rules times 60 mins is 3600 P.P.E in hour x 24 in one day is 86400 P.P.E. Personally carpet of ahesion(Since their is really no saving throw you are still suck for 2D6 melee rounds) / Wind rush works good. Or good old anti-magic clound will stop is energy sphere Since it is a straight 18 or higher no save throws bonus.

Or have the GM use nega pshyics they are always fun to pick on with casters though may not able to kill him though.

Bloodspray wrote: Nor the fact that most god spells have such high cost that you _have_ to tote around several hundred PPE, else you'd be better off as a tech character.

Bah, you don't need a high base PPE to cast expensive spells. All you need is Summon And Control Rodents, access to the city dump, and enough credits to rent a woodchipper for the afternoon

If you want to be annoying you could have the GM make so you can't refill them. SInce nothing in the text says you can. Which makes max of X3 P.P.E. Though that may not be much of a limit. Since under the rules that is all a person can hold him themself.


Nothing in the text says you can take P.P.E. freely from them requiring him to take an action to get P.P.E. form each sphere.


Though personally I never had a problem with the munckin of spheres and talismans. That is mainly because their is always someone bigger and better then you.

Just go with a simple way out. Poison. Yeah he may be invulnerable but he still has to eat. Just drop some in his food and it can even be a slow acting one if you want but it will take care of him.

[quote="The Beast"]Arise. ARISE! ARISE YE DEAD THREAD!!!




once again, PC+1.

The GM giveth and the GM taketh away. So let it be written, so let it be done.

"Make it so, Number 1."

As of this moment, I've decided that posts older than 1 year should to into a "Static" forum where it can be read...so I don't do stupid stuff.