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Just out of curiousity, was there something about Monkey Style as it was presented in N&SS you found unworkable, or lacking somehow?

BARQ wrote:Nope i just wanted some opinions on wether this workable as style. im waiting for my copies of n&ss and mystic, just working on my gm style i guess. is this to powerful, weak or just plain goofy. i know that you are kinda a n&ss goru.

Not even.
My expertise is over in comic book land.
If you want a guru for N&SS, look up Kuseru Satsujin.

I make so many modifications to N&SS it's not even funny.

I think (on first inspection) that you have something reasonably workable, but I would have to spend a little more time looking closely (which I will do when time permits).

What sort of combat techniques will be included?

BARQ wrote:hello all i invite you to help,or correct.I am making a martial arts based on one of my favorite myth god,the monkey king. im thinking of monkey style but with enphasis on cunning tricks high me required, the basic i have looks like this
me required 12, pp12
training will consist of finding a wise old man(wink) who travels between india and china, he is monkey kings avatar.
training requires8 years, putting up with nasty tricks from wise man,redicule of training,doing what they are told. the characterwill get these benafits.
+2 to me
+2 to pp
+1 to pe lots of walking

Looks like a good start.

BARQ wrote:weapon traing : staff, two weapon training(can use staff as if it were two weapons)
+1 to attack
+2 to parry
+2 to dodge

I don't understand what you're trying to do here.

BARQ wrote:minor psionic: monkey trick, for 10 isp or,chi can set up traps of cunning duplicity.It will allow tricks to full even the most observent-30 % to surv., check for traps,etc. Even gods can fooled for half the cost of all isp or chi

If you want to keep it in line with N&S, go with Chi. As to the power itself, 10 Chi is a lot to spend for a Minor Power. Also, a more in depth explination as to what the power does will help.

Sentinel wrote:Just out of curiousity, was there something about Monkey Style as it was presented in N&SS you found unworkable, or lacking somehow?

There are other Monkey styles than the one in N&S. I've got an article somewhere that lists a few.

There are other Monkey styles than the one in N&S. I've got an article somewhere that lists a few.

Generally speaking, how different are they in a game context?
I'm sure that each style is a separate and distinct entity, but for the purpose of the game, if they all have similar manuevers, similar skills offered in training, and similar mentalities, then why have multiple styles?

If however, they offer vastly different skills, techniques, etc (and if that cannot be expressed adequately by the Monkey Katas) then by all means go right ahead.

Mantisking wrote:There are other Monkey styles than the one in N&S. I've got an article somewhere that lists a few.

Sentinel wrote:Generally speaking, how different are they in a game context? I'm sure that each style is a separate and distinct entity, but for the purpose of the game, if they all have similar manuevers, similar skills offered in training, and similar mentalities, then why have multiple styles?

If however, they offer vastly different skills, techniques, etc (and if that cannot be expressed adequately by the Monkey Katas) then by all means go right ahead.

Keep in mind that the Monkey Kata are unique to one style, so removing them changes the whole tone of the art. And there are styles from different countries, IIRC one's Vietnamese. There's one that is based on channeling the spirit of the monkey, so that changes things right off the bat. So there are differences in game context, it all depends on how granular you want to get and what kind of research sources you have.

Granted, a lot of work can be saved by using the N&S version of Monkey Kung Fu as a base and then tweaking it to fit what you need. But there's nothing wrong with wanting to build one from scratch.

If you want a guru for N&SS, look up Kuseru Satsujin.
Ufortunately Kuseru got fed up with Pally.

Grandil wrote:If you want a guru for N&SS, look up Kuseru Satsujin.
Ufortunately Kuseru got fed up with Pally.

Some of us who are still here know our way around the system.

Mantisking wrote:

Grandil wrote:If you want a guru for N&SS, look up Kuseru Satsujin.
Ufortunately Kuseru got fed up with Pally.

Some of us who are still here know our way around the system.

I suspect Kuseru left during my lengthy absence?

Too bad.
Not that there is anything wrong with any of us left.
I simply deferred to Kuseru having a much more expansive range of knowledge on N&SS than myself.

I guess Kiseru got fed up with the promises of Pally on getting new material for NS&S-check out the NS&S Website, a little over 200 MA's, &
NOTHING from Pally. they think that we as players are never going to use NS&S/Mystic China, IMHO This is a huge Mistake. One of the reasons I play is for the unique Martial arts systems that they introduced that only one or two-to my knowledge, & my knowledge is far from complete, other game systems have been able to duplicate. Knods to u Matisking & others for at least keeping the dream alive. BTW I might be right to say the correct spelling is Hanuman, & you're right hes' an awesome Trickster-God; a classic.....my introduction to him was in a Heavy Metal series years ago-the Mag. he really kicked ss. PS Bow to Sentinel!
G

In all honesty, I much prefer N&SS and Mystic China as opposed to Rifts China.

To a lesser extent, I like Rifts Japan okay, mostly becuse I can use the martial arts for Heroes Unlimited characters as an alternative to HtH Expert and HtH Martial Arts, without loading super-beings up with martial arts powers.
Also Mystic Ninja and Samurai can have more Scholastic Skills with Rifts Japan.

I like the versatility of the Dedicated and Worldly Martial Artist, despite some short-comings which are easily addressed.
And I much prefer the presentation of Chi from N&SS. It's never been handled quite right in Rifts.
I would love to see more support for N&SS and Mystic China from Palladium. Perhaps as a tribute to Erick Wujick.

Sentinel wrote:In all honesty, I much prefer N&SS and Mystic China as opposed to Rifts China.

I don't even have Rifts: China.

Yet.

Sentinel wrote:To a lesser extent, I like Rifts Japan okay, mostly becuse I can use the martial arts for Heroes Unlimited characters as an alternative to HtH Expert and HtH Martial Arts, without loading super-beings up with martial arts powers.
Also Mystic Ninja and Samurai can have more Scholastic Skills with Rifts Japan.

I'm not a fan of Rifts, but there may be some ideas I can use in a book or two.

Sentinel wrote:I like the versatility of the Dedicated and Worldly Martial Artist, despite some short-comings which are easily addressed.

Or don't have to bother with if you have the UNrevised edition.

Sentinel wrote:And I much prefer the presentation of Chi from N&SS. It's never been handled quite right in Rifts.

Exactly.

Sentinel wrote:I would love to see more support for N&SS and Mystic China from Palladium. Perhaps as a tribute to Erick Wujick.

Amen.

So I found that article last night. As I posted before there's a Vietnamese style, and a Shen Kung Monkey style. Also there's a Southern Monkey Kung Fu and a few others.

Mantisking wrote:

Sentinel wrote:In all honesty, I much prefer N&SS and Mystic China as opposed to Rifts China.

I don't even have Rifts: China.

Yet.

I figured I'd get it: eaither (A) I'd like it and use it, or (B) I'd hate it, but at least I would have read it before being critical.

Sentinel wrote:To a lesser extent, I like Rifts Japan okay, mostly becuse I can use the martial arts for Heroes Unlimited characters as an alternative to HtH Expert and HtH Martial Arts, without loading super-beings up with martial arts powers.
Also Mystic Ninja and Samurai can have more Scholastic Skills with Rifts Japan.

I'm not a fan of Rifts, but there may be some ideas I can use in a book or two.

Sentinel wrote:I like the versatility of the Dedicated and Worldly Martial Artist, despite some short-comings which are easily addressed.

Or don't have to bother with if you have the UNrevised edition.

My problem there was (A) too few people had the Unrevised edition (and thus constantly needed to borrow mine), and I actually did like stepping down to two styles for the DMA after the initial shock.
Or rather, I could see the merits of reducing some of the "power" of the DMA, but I would have also scaled down all the other O.C.C.s in proportion. What happened in the actual Revised edition was NOT in proportion.

I have always had an issue with the DMA as a hermitic recluse who had only the bare-minimum of survival skills (IF he took Cooking and Sewing as his two Secondary Skills), while ignoring the merits of real-world DMAs like Ed Parker, Dan Inosanto, Gichen Funakoshi, and Mas Oyama. Just to name a few.

Sentinel wrote:And I much prefer the presentation of Chi from N&SS. It's never been handled quite right in Rifts.

Exactly.

Sentinel wrote:I would love to see more support for N&SS and Mystic China from Palladium. Perhaps as a tribute to Erick Wujick.

Amen.

So I found that article last night. As I posted before there's a Vietnamese style, and a Shen Kung Monkey style. Also there's a Southern Monkey Kung Fu and a few others.

I have also found some stuff in my martial arts library. I have articles in Black Belt on Vietnamese Monkey style, and several magazines on African martial arts, including a style patterned on the apes.
While interesting stuff, I am not sure it would merit the effort to write up an additional style for N&SS, because it would contain a lot of similar moves, skills, and Martial Arts Techniques to the existing style.

Mantisking wrote:I don't even have Rifts: China.

Yet.

Sentinel wrote:I figured I'd get it: eaither (A) I'd like it and use it, or (B) I'd hate it, but at least I would have read it before being critical.

Makes sense. I should have picked up both of them when my FLGS was having a sale.

Sentinel wrote:Or rather, I could see the merits of reducing some of the "power" of the DMA, but I would have also scaled down all the other O.C.C.s in proportion. What happened in the actual Revised edition was NOT in proportion.

I haven't looked at the system in a while, but with the way we used to play the DMA and WMA used to end up on the low powered end of the scale.

Sentinel wrote:I have always had an issue with the DMA as a hermitic recluse who had only the bare-minimum of survival skills (IF he took Cooking and Sewing as his two Secondary Skills), while ignoring the merits of real-world DMAs like Ed Parker, Dan Inosanto, Gichen Funakoshi, and Mas Oyama. Just to name a few.

Makes sense.

Mantisking wrote:So I found that article last night. As I posted before there's a Vietnamese style, and a Shen Kung Monkey style. Also there's a Southern Monkey Kung Fu and a few others.

Sentinel wrote:I have also found some stuff in my martial arts library. I have articles in Black Belt on Vietnamese Monkey style, and several magazines on African martial arts, including a style patterned on the apes.

Any chance you could scan the stuff on Vietnamese Monkey and e-mail it to me?

Sentinel wrote:While interesting stuff, I am not sure it would merit the effort to write up an additional style for N&SS, because it would contain a lot of similar moves, skills, and Martial Arts Techniques to the existing style.

From what I read, the Vietnamese style is less acrobatic and maybe a bit harder. So along with losing the five Monkey Kata, it would have a different set of bonuses and Combat Maneuvers. I'd consider that worth making a new style.

Any chance you could scan the stuff on Vietnamese Monkey and e-mail it to me?

How could I refuse so polite a request?

Plus, I like using my scanner...

From what I read, the Vietnamese style is less acrobatic and maybe a bit harder. So along with losing the five Monkey Kata, it would have a different set of bonuses and Combat Maneuvers. I'd consider that worth making a new style.

I would agree with that. Let's see what it looks like in game terms.

Mantisking wrote:Any chance you could scan the stuff on Vietnamese Monkey and e-mail it to me?

Sentinel wrote:How could I refuse so polite a request?

Thank you.

Sentinel wrote:Plus, I like using my scanner...

Bonus!

Mantisking wrote:From what I read, the Vietnamese style is less acrobatic and maybe a bit harder. So along with losing the five Monkey Kata, it would have a different set of bonuses and Combat Maneuvers. I'd consider that worth making a new style.

Sentinel wrote:I would agree with that. Let's see what it looks like in game terms.

We'll see once I've got the research material in my hands.

Give me a day or two to pull them out, and get them scanned and e-mailed. Hopefully, I can do this by Saturday/Sunday.

Sentinel wrote:Give me a day or two to pull them out, and get them scanned and e-mailed. Hopefully, I can do this by Saturday/Sunday.

No problem. I'm going on vacation next week anyway, so I probably won't get to the actual conversion work for a week or so.

Mantisking wrote:

Sentinel wrote:Give me a day or two to pull them out, and get them scanned and e-mailed. Hopefully, I can do this by Saturday/Sunday.

No problem. I'm going on vacation next week anyway, so I probably won't get to the actual conversion work for a week or so.

Well Okay.
We're Golden.

Sentinel wrote:Give me a day or two to pull them out, and get them scanned and e-mailed. Hopefully, I can do this by Saturday/Sunday.

Mantisking wrote:No problem. I'm going on vacation next week anyway, so I probably won't get to the actual conversion work for a week or so.

Sentinel wrote:Well Okay. We're Golden.

Looking forward to it. This will be my first conversion work after a lengthy hiatus.

I hope to be able to pour through my stuff tonight.
I have six boxes full of martial arts magazines (Inside Kung Fu from the late 1970s,Black Belt magazine going back to 1982, and many Karate Illustrated, Martial Arts Training, Ninja, and others), so I'll be a little busy.

Mephisto wrote:

Sentinel wrote:I hope to be able to pour through my stuff tonight.
I have six boxes full of martial arts magazines (Inside Kung Fu from the late 1970s,Black Belt magazine going back to 1982, and many Karate Illustrated, Martial Arts Training, Ninja, and others), so I'll be a little busy.

I'd love to get a copy of the African martial arts, as it the one area along with Latin America (Gracie Jujitsu doesn't totally encompass Latin American martial art styles) that doesn't really have a lot of depth.

I'll keep you in mind as well.
I am a little behind on my research project: I spent more time with organizing my office area (which includes my comic collection), house cleaning, and birthday stuff with my son.

Sentinel wrote:I hope to be able to pour through my stuff tonight.
I have six boxes full of martial arts magazines (Inside Kung Fu from the late 1970s,Black Belt magazine going back to 1982, and many Karate Illustrated, Martial Arts Training, Ninja, and others), so I'll be a little busy.

I used to have that many, then I lost a lot during a move.

Sentinel wrote:I am a little behind on my research project: I spent more time with organizing my office area (which includes my comic collection), house cleaning, and birthday stuff with my son.

No problem, family time is always important.

Mantisking wrote:

Sentinel wrote:I hope to be able to pour through my stuff tonight.
I have six boxes full of martial arts magazines (Inside Kung Fu from the late 1970s,Black Belt magazine going back to 1982, and many Karate Illustrated, Martial Arts Training, Ninja, and others), so I'll be a little busy.

I used to have that many, then I lost a lot during a move.

I was afraid of it happening, but my over-protectiveness of my personal belongings prevented disaster.

Sentinel wrote:I am a little behind on my research project: I spent more time with organizing my office area (which includes my comic collection), house cleaning, and birthday stuff with my son.

No problem, family time is always important.

Yeah, so the therapist keeps telling me.

So I found myself in the mood to create yesterday and since I was in the "T" section of "Martial Arts by the Numbers", I cranked this little baby out.

Vietnamese Monkey Style
Entrance Requirements: None.
Skill Cost: 10 Years (Primary), 5 Years (Secondary)
Costume: ??
Stance: ??
CHARACTER BONUSES
Add 5 to Chi
Add 2 to M.A.
Add 2 to P.S.
Add 10 to S.D.C.
COMBAT SKILLS
Attacks per Melee: Two (2).
Escape Moves: Roll with Punch/Fall/Impact, Maintain Balance, Leap.
Attack Moves: Leap, Roll.
Basic Defense Moves: Dodge, Parry, Automatic Parry.
Advanced Defense Moves: Powerblock/Parry, Disarm, Breakfall.
Hand Attacks: Strike (Punch), Palm Strike, Knife Hand, Fore-Knuckle Fist, Double Fist Punch.
Foot Attacks: Kick Attack, Trip/Leg Hook, Roundhouse Kick, Reverse Turning Kick.
Jumping Foot Attacks: Jump Kick.
Special Attacks: Deathblow, Leap Attack, Forearm, Knee, Body Block/Tackle, Combination Grab/Kick.
Holds/Locks: Arm Hold, Leg Hold.
Weapon Kata: None.
Modifiers to Attacks: Pull Punch, Critical Strike, Critical Strike From Behind, Knock-Out/Stun, Knockout/Stun from Behind
SKILLS INCLUDED IN TRAINING
Martial Art Powers: Select a total of three (3) Powers from among Body Hardening Exercises and Special Kata.
Languages: Vietnamese.
Cultural: None.
Physical: Climbing, Prowl.
Survival: None.
Temple: Begging, Fasting.
Weapon Proficiencies: None.
Philosophical Training: Vietnamese Buddhism.
If this is your Primary Martial Art then the following other styles can be learned in a shorter time: Tai Hsing Pek Kwar (5 Years), Tang Su (4 Years).
LEVEL ADVANCEMENT BONUSES
1st: +1 to Roll with Punch/Fall/Impact, +1 to Maintain Balance, +1 to Breakfall, Critical Strike or Knockout/Stun from Behind.
2nd: +1 to Strike, +1 to Parry/Dodge.
3rd: +1 to Roll with Punch/Fall/Impact, Select one (1) Martial Art Power from Body Hardening Exercises, Martial Arts Techniques, or Special Kata.
4th: +1 Attack per Melee, +1 to Damage.
5th: +1 to Roll with Punch/Fall/Impact, +1 to Leap.
6th: +1 to Damage, Select one (1) Martial Art Power from Body Hardening Exercises, Martial Arts Techniques, or Special Kata.
7th: Critical Strike on a Natural 18+, Knockout/Stun on a Natural 18+.
8th: +1 Attack per Melee, Select one (1) Martial Art Power from Body Hardening Exercises, Martial Arts Techniques, or Special Kata.
9th: +1 to Roll with Punch/Fall/Impact, Deathblow on a Natural 20.
10th: +1 Attack per Melee, +1 to Parry/Dodge.
11th: +1 to Roll with Punch/Fall/Impact, +1 to Damage.
12th: +1 Attack per Melee, +2 to Leap.
13th: +1 to Roll with Punch/Fall/Impact, Select one (1) Martial Art Power from Arts of Invisibility, Martial Arts Techniques, or Special Kata.
14th: +1 Attack per Melee, +1 to Strike.
15th: +2 to Parry/Dodge, +2 to Damage.
Why Study Vietnamese Monkey Style?
If you're looking for something a little less acrobatic, but harder hitting, than Monkey Style, this is the style you're looking for.

Designer's Notes:

• I used Tai Shing Pek Kwar and Tang Su as the base arts for the numbers for this style.
• It's all based on this paragraph.

  Vietnamese Monkey-Strong stable low stances and one of the more powerful styles. Their style has multiple forms based on the 5 elements as in the style Nga Mi Son Phat Gia Quyen (Buddha martial arts). This style comes form the Mountains of Vietnam and only since this century.

• Hopefully I'll be able to track down some more information in the future.