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Hello everyone,

I was looking around for a game that might play a little faster and easier than Cyberpunk 2020 (I love the game, but with my current group it is really bogging things down ). I thought to myself "Hey, the palladium system has guns, cybernetics, and the other trimmings to make a cool Cyberpunk game."

I borrowed my friend's copy of N&SS and started thumbing through it. I absolutely loved the OCC's and found the additional cybernetics (compared to Rifts) to be exactly what I was looking for. I was getting pumped out about the prospect of converting over to this system.

Then, I got the martial arts and rules sections. Dropping the mystical Chi powers would be a given for my style of campaign, and would be easy enough to do. But then I see that some characters would have multiple martial arts styles and would have to swap back and forth between them for varying bonuses and weapon katas. Then I got to the massive number of options that can be done during hand to hand combat; multiple punches, kicks, criticals, throws, knock outs, auto attacks, etc, etc, etc. I have been playing Palladium games since 1991 and my head was spinning!

My question is this: Is N&SS simpler than it first appears, or is it truly a game for people who love a more detailed rule set?

Thanks,
Eric

You might want to get Mystic China; it clears up a lot of the unclear combat terms.

erc1971 wrote:Then, I got the martial arts and rules sections. Dropping the mystical Chi powers would be a given for my style of campaign, and would be easy enough to do. But then I see that some characters would have multiple martial arts styles and would have to swap back and forth between them for varying bonuses and weapon katas. Then I got to the massive number of options that can be done during hand to hand combat; multiple punches, kicks, criticals, throws, knock outs, auto attacks, etc, etc, etc. I have been playing Palladium games since 1991 and my head was spinning!

My question is this: Is N&SS simpler than it first appears, or is it truly a game for people who love a more detailed rule set?

It can be a handful at first. All the new options can seem overwhelming, but they just require a little bit of book-keeping. Then after a while people will naturally trim down the amount of moves they use, generally sticking with the stronger ones. Then, after that, once people become really familiar with the new moves they'll be able to remember them with out the book, or maybe with a little shorthand. It just takes time, just like any new game system or set of rules.

Mantisking wrote:

erc1971 wrote:Then, I got the martial arts and rules sections. Dropping the mystical Chi powers would be a given for my style of campaign, and would be easy enough to do. But then I see that some characters would have multiple martial arts styles and would have to swap back and forth between them for varying bonuses and weapon katas. Then I got to the massive number of options that can be done during hand to hand combat; multiple punches, kicks, criticals, throws, knock outs, auto attacks, etc, etc, etc. I have been playing Palladium games since 1991 and my head was spinning!

My question is this: Is N&SS simpler than it first appears, or is it truly a game for people who love a more detailed rule set?

It can be a handful at first. All the new options can seem overwhelming, but they just require a little bit of book-keeping. Then after a while people will naturally trim down the amount of moves they use, generally sticking with the stronger ones. Then, after that, once people become really familiar with the new moves they'll be able to remember them with out the book, or maybe with a little shorthand. It just takes time, just like any new game system or set of rules.

Thanks for the answer.

It does let me know that N&SS won't work well with my current group - we have lots of guys who like rule light systems. While Rifts or PFRPG would work (and I do plan on running Rifts down the line ), all the book keeping, etc with N&SS would be a big turn off for them.

Thanks again,
Eric

macksting wrote:Rifts is rule light?
I'm missing something. I'm not trying to be rude, or dense, but I'm missing something here.

I'm finding it to be the best joke ever!

macksting wrote:Rifts is rule light?
I'm missing something. I'm not trying to be rude, or dense, but I'm missing something here.

Compared to N&SS it is, lol

Seriously, I find Rifts very easy to work with, same with Heroes Unlimited and PFRPG. The N&SS book just seems to add several layers of complexity to the rules that Rifts, etc don't have.

Eric

Palladium games (all of them) are complicated and overly contradictory rules wise...if you are having issues with CP 2020 then I would not recommend any palladium game for cutting rules times.

Palladium games are, however, VERY FUN. It is, in my opinion, the most fun set of games by any game producer. The rules are ick, but the games are FUN! and that is what is important.

-STS

Bah, Rolemaster is simple...try Phoenix Command from Leading Edge Games...it was pure pain!!

-STS

LEG also had an Aliens game that used the same system -- WOW talk about fun (and lethal)! But, ultimately, I agree. Palladium is FUN; it is complex, but that just adds to the enjoyment once everyone is up to speed with a basic understanding of the rules.

Have you tried the RECON system? With a few mods to the rules it can include the cybernetics and other equipment needed for Cyberpunk.

Tyciol wrote:Chi is insane, it can conquer any chiless world.

A chiless world would be a dead world.

Stormchild wrote:

grendelhall wrote: so any other system I go into just seems TOO simple...

Try Rolemaster

I recall Ars Magica being insane with rules too.

ash_wednesday wrote:

erc1971 wrote:

macksting wrote:Rifts is rule light?
I'm missing something. I'm not trying to be rude, or dense, but I'm missing something here.

Compared to N&SS it is, lol

..uh...nope.
With N&SS you have normal combat, skills, advance combat, weapons, armour, a little fluff, chi and some bad guys.

In Rifts you have normal combat, skills, advance combat, weapons, armour, chi (I think Rifts China has it) and some bad guys. PLUS magic, ESP stuff, bonics, MDC, Gods, monsters, more advance rules, PPE (goes with magic), a lot of fluff, hover cars, mutants, and a legal blend of all the other PB books as well.

Actually, Rifts Japan has Chi=PPE and Rifts China has Chi=ISP. Figure that one out.

Tyciol wrote:Chi is insane, it can conquer any chiless world.

Not that again. There are ways to defeat Chi users, they're not unstoppable.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Stormchild wrote:

grendelhall wrote: so any other system I go into just seems TOO simple...

Try Rolemaster

I recall Ars Magica being insane with rules too.

It looks a lot worse than it is; most of those have to do with Lab work.

Mantisking wrote:

Tyciol wrote:Chi is insane, it can conquer any chiless world.

Not that again. There are ways to defeat Chi users, they're not unstoppable.

A volley of four plasma LRMs should do the trick.