Levels, and Hand To Hand?

[SkyeFyre]

I was doing some math the other day and I got a little puzzled. Rift's level advancement for Men At Arms classes has always annoyed me. There really doesn't seem to be much of an improvement from a level 1 character, to a level 8 character. Now this is something I can sort of live with (although if I had an alternative I'd use it) but there really doesn't seem to be any difference between Expert, and Martial Arts. Like I cannot see how it is worth it to take Martial Arts when I can take Expert, especially when I can use that skill selection for something much more useful, or a skill that will actually help in combat... like Boxing.

Am I missing something... or can playing a Men At Arms class be somewhat unrewarding as far as level advancement?
Anyone have any house rules to fix this?

What's up with Expert and Martial Arts? How is MA better?
Houserules anyone?

[SkyeFyre]

That may be true, but this isn't real life. This is a super powered comic book style, movie type game world, and players like to feel as though those levels mean something.

[lather]

What's up with Expert and Martial Arts? How is MA better?

I never liked this too much either.

But I never changed it either.

1E Palladium Fantasy, Ninja Turtles, and BtS were the bulk of the games we played so there never really was much of a need to change it..

[SkyeFyre]

I understand balance is a major point, but I'm thinking like... Heck... even a vagabond. A level 14 Vagabond doesn't stand that much better of a chance against a Level 1 Vagabond in hand to hand combat.

Actually, now... the more I'm thinking about it... I don't mind it as much as I thought I did... I guess I just don't know what I want .

[wolfsgrin]

What i normally do is let a player choose more advanced attacks from Ninjas. No chi or special abilities just holds and diffrent hand attacks. Or let them add a +1 to strike around 3rd or 4th (its tough getting one of those unless you have a high PP). Let them add a special manuever they've been trying to use in game. You don't want to get carried away, because of RCC bonuses, and OCC bonuses. I also let players add boxing (not as a secondary) to their hand to hand, its not a whole other hand to hand skill. There are no level advancements or any of the other discriptors in the traditional hand to hand sets. And i retooled it as well. It always bothered my that there was no strike bonus in boxing. I just changed the +2 to Parry and Dodge to a +1 for Strike, Parry and Dodge. Just makes better sense to me.

[SkyeFyre]

The whole thing that prompted this whole issue was, I was reading my Hades dimension book and there's a note that it's recommended for high level characters. This has always confused me because... when it comes to your average character, they're really not all that different from level 1 to level 15.

[Natasha]

That's not a bad way to let a character develop him or herself.

Although I would probably put a limit on the number of times you can increase an attribute or perhaps put a ceiling on the attribute itself.

[Dog_O_War]

The whole thing that prompted this whole issue was, I was reading my Hades dimension book and there's a note that it's recommended for high level characters. This has always confused me because... when it comes to your average character, they're really not all that different from level 1 to level 15.

Yeah, I agree with you for the most part.

I guess we'd have to ask: "Who plays plain-ol'-vanilla characters in Rifts ?" I'm sure someone does someplace, but most people probably play a mage or psychic or something that lumps the powers on a per-level basis.

I am that guy. I love the normal character classes and races in rifts. Quite literally my favorite combo is man-at-arms OCC's with plain ol' human.

For instance a 5th level Mind Melter should have around ~200+ ISP and probably 30 powers. 30 POWERS !

"Hey, Headhunter whatcha got ?"

"I just upgraded to a multi-optic eye and a strangle-cord..." <sniffles>

"Big deal, I just came back from Center on Phase World, got a suit of Naruni Light Combat Armor with a OP Phase Field built into it and now I'm a psi-ghost to boot. I noticed there were a few extra demons running around the place too, I avoided them with psionic Invisibility since I hadn't gotten my psi-ghost suit yet and the ones that saved I trapped in telekinetic force fields. Now that I have the suit, they literally can't touch me." <does MC-Hammer dance o'joy>

Headhunter: "I want a suit ! I want a suit !"

Actually, it's more along the lines of.....

Mind-Melter~ "I just got back from Phase World with my way-cool Naruni suit with a force field built in! only cost me 10,000,000 creds"

HeadHunter~ " Really?! I thought you were psychic - Phase World is where Naruni crap isn't in direct conflict with the CS. I went to Merctown and bought the exact same thing, plus these ten guns - heh, they threw in an old BigBoss someone traded in and a gold licence plate *PIMPIN'*"

Mind-Melter~ "Yeah well, I got a Naruni contact while I was there, and he said he'd be my personal dealer offering the best price around. His name was Imasucker or something...."

Headhunter~ "guess psychic powers really do have nothing to do with I.Q. "


Or something like that Heh, gotta stick up for my class of choice after all.


So from the perspective of the guy that eats it on a per-level basis (as far as advancement goes); Don't think about it. I find levels in Rifts are few and far between, so I'll spend a dozen sessions at level 1, 2, 3, etc... So after a while when you do advance any gain is noticeable.

I also find that when it comes down to it, the only thing that really matters is the number of attacks you've got. A guy with basic and boxing is effectively a martial artist with basic and boxing - little to no difference. Hell, an assassin is worse off than the guy with basic and boxing.
Why? bonuses to strike really only matter in melee combat - which is well, like bringing a knife to a gun-fight far too often. Besides, who cares if your dude is an 8th level martial artist - that 1st level Juicer is still a better fighter than you.

I use the systems as presented, but that's because I haven't really had a chance to pull them apart just yet. That and I tend to use HTH commando - best HTH ever.

[KillWatch]

In mye xperience Palladium gives you power all at one and there is little reward for going further than first level. Skills are one of the small bonuses you get. There are exceptions but it still holds true

I have begun to parse things out dividing the bonuses up between future levels. Like with APS powers, Mind Mages are a biggie, etc.