Host Armor Theft HL&S

[LostOne]

Just thought I'd toss this out for those of you using Splicers in Rifts.

Hook: A Dreadlord went missing for 3 days, was abducted from his room and has no memory of what happened, he just woke up in some cheap clothes on the outskirts of a town and made his way back to the Great House. A few days after he gets back, his host armor goes missing.

Line: The armor is seen feeding itself or fighting or somewhere out and about.

Sinker: The Host Armor was stolen by an Auto-G (Siege on Tolkeen 3 and apparently the D-bee's of North America). The Auto-G was part of the group that abducted the Dreadlord, copied his genetic structure, and stole the Host Armor. It walked right into the Great House during the night when the real Dreadlord was sleeping and took the Host Armor.

Reasons could vary from greed for power, needed the armor to take revenge for some heinous crime (murder of his friends/family), to trying to discover the secrets of bio-tech to sell to the highest bidder(s).

[The Baron of chaos]

Niiiicee use of an Auto-G !!! Loved it!

[Aramanthus]

WOW!!! That is very nasty! I like it! I suppose this means that the houses are going to have to develope defenses against Auto-Gs!

[bigbobsr6000]

Good stuff!

[LostOne]

WOW!!! That is very nasty! I like it! I suppose this means that the houses are going to have to develope defenses against Auto-Gs!

Any thoughts on that? Because that would be a difficult thing to do for the Splicers.

It's been a while since I thoroughly read the RCC, but isn't their ability to change their DNA based on magic or psionics? If so, any thoughts on how a Great House could combat this? Short of a hideously complex method of code words or something?

Tattoo the Host Armor pilots and make the Host Armor check for those tattoos before it will acknowledge the pilot?

Or ritual scarring of the torso and the Host Armor feels for those?

Host Armor scans for specific brain waves which the Auto-G probably can't duplicate?

[Aramanthus]

Actually since they are genetically engineered they could always put a special marker which could be sensed by those who know about it. Just a thought.

[9voltkilowatt]

Hmmm, the Auto G Race has a few genetic differences (although very subtile) according to the Coalition War Campaign book, so figuring out a defence should be fairly easy for the various Great (and not so Great) House's.

[Aramanthus]

Agreed! As I said a genetic marker that no one but key individuals know about in each house would probably be the easiest cure for the initial problem. Of course developing something to detect the difference in an auto-g might be just as easy.

[LostOne]

But how many armors can the Auto-G get away with before the change is implemented? Since it hasn't been an issue before this, they wouldn't have that kind of security setup.

But I also got the impression that the Great Houses weren't in the habit of genetically changing their Host Armor pilots. They're good breeding stock and a genetic marker would get passed on, being a permanent change in their DNA.

[The Baron of chaos]

Yeah but genetic marker can be replied then, Sincerely don't give too much credit to great house intelligence, they are the ones who never ever thought of cloninc technojackers or put their dna in use for host armors. They are not exactly smart people(i think of splicer humans like the hillybillies of megaverse, slow minded, on edge of retard)

[demos606]

Take a look at the Proto-armor Baron. There was a deliberate choice to move away from genetically tagging the Host Armor, presumably related to battlefield attrition, when that design was abandoned/replaced. The Houses aren't stupid but they are forced to put their resources to best use and having HA around that nobody can use isn't a smart play.

As far as cloning TJ, why would they clone what terrifies them? For that matter, how would they have cloned anyone once the nanoplague was unleashed?

[LostOne]

Yeah but genetic marker can be replied then, Sincerely don't give too much credit to great house intelligence, they are the ones who never ever thought of cloninc technojackers or put their dna in use for host armors. They are not exactly smart people(i think of splicer humans like the hillybillies of megaverse, slow minded, on edge of retard)

That doesn't strike me as a well thought out statement.

Maybe they did try cloning a technojacker. There might be nothing in the DNA to use. The book doesn't say what makes a Technojacker, only that 1% of humans are born immune to the plague. It doesn't elaborate on how their nano-bots mutated to protect them. But the nano-bots are mutated, which would have nothing to do with the Technojacker's DNA.

Maybe DNA has nothing to do with how a technojacker comes about. Maybe it has more to do with the mother getting exposed to something while pregnant, or some other environmental effect that would affect the fetus and make it a technojacker, but not his mother.

Or maybe the Technojacker fetus has a brief moment where they possess telemechanic powers and instinctively alter the nano-plague to be beneficial in their body. Giving that DNA to the host armor wouldn't matter, the host armor is essentially mindless and wouldn't be able to use the psychic power for the brief instant it was available during its growth.

Or maybe there is DNA there, but putting it in host armor means it isn't compatible with the Dreadguard the armor was being grown for.

Or maybe one of the NEXUS personalities creates the technojackers, randomly granting 1/100 fetuses the immunity. Nothing to clone there.

The Splicers may not be able to easily discover the cause. And since there is a social astigmatism about technojackers, they may be unwilling to even experiment on them.

And you say Splicers are not exactly smart people? So you think you could do better than coming up with Bio-Tech if you were fighting a war and suddenly couldn't touch metal? That's genius in my book.

I'm gonna post the technojacker stuff in a new post. I think it merits discussion.

[The Baron of chaos]

hmmm apart that is unclear exactly how they developed biotech by themselves...they can't touch metal, they can use comp, what they did, did theyused little chemist and cockroach eggs to develop Engineers and Librarians?
And this seem the right moment to discuss a thing i realized searching more info about nanotech.
What do you think nanomachines are? Tiny robot? Sure we could think them like that, but only in the sense of an artificial thing that do what is programmed to do. But even if labeled "machines" they are more close to synthetic viruse or bacteria. At that size there is no difference between bio and standard technology. Infact to develope nanotechnology a deep knowledge of genetic engineering is required.
Anyway even admitting the Splicers ingenuity , I was referring to their smartness and ability to foresee the result of their actions. It was this that lead the madness of NEXUS , and does not seem to me that they are so much better after the nanoplague(for the chronicle even NEXUS smartness is questionable).

[LostOne]

Take a look at the Proto-armor Baron. There was a deliberate choice to move away from genetically tagging the Host Armor, presumably related to battlefield attrition, when that design was abandoned/replaced. The Houses aren't stupid but they are forced to put their resources to best use and having HA around that nobody can use isn't a smart play.

Uh...aren't proto-armors tied to the family? Whereas the current gen of Host Armors specifically tied to the PILOT? How is that an improvement as far as you are talking, demos606?

[The Baron of chaos]

One thing I found unnerving of Splicer earth is that some thing are impossible to do. The average example of MDC vs SDC don't seem to work all that well, because in my eyes prove two things. How the **** si possible be a bandit, asocial or simply being outside Great Houses, if you don't get not even the minimal insignificant pathetic chance to stand a MDC force, the example of bandits attacking the host armors is simply....STUPID, apart that it does say that there are some WEAPONS that are not touched(how happend that only the metal weapons are MDC while exist no ceramic MDC rifle?) Why they even try to fihgt off the SPlicers? Is not that they got any chance at all. And one could not even say oh i've stolen an host armor, because is impossible.
Only hope is an EVIL Great House who work like black market or mob, Still, while host armor seem to be impossible to steal, from the book we see that lesser bio-armor(page 138-139) have a trading value...as well as handheld bio-weapons and Wing packs...SOOO these are not attuned to the DNA....if they cna be traded....And this means can be stolen without problems....

[demos606]

Take a look at the Proto-armor Baron. There was a deliberate choice to move away from genetically tagging the Host Armor, presumably related to battlefield attrition, when that design was abandoned/replaced. The Houses aren't stupid but they are forced to put their resources to best use and having HA around that nobody can use isn't a smart play.

Uh...aren't proto-armors tied to the family? Whereas the current gen of Host Armors specifically tied to the PILOT? How is that an improvement as far as you are talking, demos606?

I'm 4 states from my books right now but as I remember it, the current HA aren't specifically tied to a given pilot at all where proto was bonded to a single pilot and could be used at penalty by a close relative. As for bandits existing in Splicers and attacking HA, given the risk of extermination the few humans living in NEXUS controlled areas face if there are ANY traces of biotech found, I might do something stupid to attempt self preservation too.

[Aramanthus]

I'm going to run my great houses smart an effective! There may be some insane members of the house, but overall it is going to be run ultra efficient! They are not going to be run as "Stupid" in my game. They are fighting for their very existence. That means they have to be on the ball and sharper then their enemies.

[The Baron of chaos]

Hmmm Demos , I give you on this point, considering the Cyber-Sl**s atomize any area they found with MDC technology(hmm why the nanoplague if they could do that on firts place, probably becasue they started getting bored nuclear bombing here and there, reading a bit about the NEXUS AI, you get the idea they grow easily bored ALL of them, I don't fall for "humans are vermin" trip, they do it all simply because they got bored). One point.
While SDc weapons cannot harm MDC creatures, like an host armor pilot in all purpose is, could disturb it, sting, blind and if they manage to throw with slingshot some metal shard, they coudl actually damage it, This arise an interesitng point, Due nanoplague, even simple SDC weapons like a derringer gun, could do serious damage to an host armor. And an iPod become the deadliest slingshot bullet, aiming for those fancy gaping mouth( big news having a mouth in your armor is NOT the wisest thing in the world, cool yes, wise no). This means a technojackers with a 44 magnum could be as deadly as someone wiht a railgun!!! Never thought bout that till now!

[LostOne]

I'm 4 states from my books right now but as I remember it, the current HA aren't specifically tied to a given pilot at all

Got a chance to look at my book:

Host Armor:
Trade Value (p72): None. Because each Host Armor is bonded to a specific pilot and will not function for any other person.

Proto Host Armor:
Trade Value (p140): None to most people because the armor is bonded to a specific pilot and will not function for most others. However, unlike "true" Host Armor, Proto-Armor can be handed down or lent to a blood relative...blah blah blah.

So there is no point for Splicers to add a genetic marker to the pilot or host armor, because it already only works for the specific pilot. Until they encounter Auto-G's, it's the perfect security system. Even if they do encounter Auto-G's and add a genetic marker, all the Auto-G has to do is get a new sample. Genetic marker would need to be done to the host armor and pilot both for it to function, and since it's genetic, the Auto-G could duplicate it.

What I think would need to be done to stop Auto-G's is this: All Host Armor pilots get a small bio-comm device implanted in them under the skin. This acts like a fob (like the wireless key systems seen in newer cars like the Prius). The Host Armor will not function without the pilot having the specific DNA pattern it needs plus the fob under the skin.

This means a technojackers with a 44 magnum could be as deadly as someone wiht a railgun!!! Never thought bout that till now!

SDC bullet is going to hit and bounce/ricochet off. The only way it would be a threat to the host armor is if they got it someplace it'll stay put, like in the mouth (where it might be swallowed or at least have to be spit out), or lodged in a crevice of the armor, or wedged in a missile port, nostril, vent, etc. Mouth is the most likely, but would require a called shot at major penalties. Anywhere else is dumb luck and most likely going to ricochet off. SDC bullet is not going to penetrate MDC flesh, and the nano-plague response is not instantaneous, so the bullet would need to hit and hang around for a bit.

[demos606]

Hmmm Demos , I give you on this point, considering the Cyber-Sl**s atomize any area they found with MDC technology(hmm why the nanoplague if they could do that on firts place, probably becasue they started getting bored nuclear bombing here and there, reading a bit about the NEXUS AI, you get the idea they grow easily bored ALL of them, I don't fall for "humans are vermin" trip, they do it all simply because they got bored). One point.

Carmen originated the nanoplague as a means to rob the tech savvy humans of the time of the ability to use military grade hardware (they could easily scavenge from downed robots) to replace the limited preNEXUS military stockpiles. This is why the humans needed biotech (and NEXUS needed orbital bombardment) in the first place.

[The Baron of chaos]

Ya know Demos your answer here arise again the most common question of Splicer setting: how biotech was developed in first place? think about it. Nanoplague. Laboratories impossible to utilize, super computers needed to for calculation useless and dangerous, many scientist passed away, brutally killed by their own instruments before they can do anything. How they devised the protohost armors? uncle bob and his sister danced the lovedance with each others in toxic waste till they sire freakish demented symbiotes? This is VERY unlikely. As it is the gift from the machine(yeah sure I'll believe when an official sourcebook will say it).

[LostOne]

All the non-electronic tools could be easily recreated using non-metal components...plastics, MDC plastics, ceramics, etc.

People in labs have access to books on the subjects they are working on, they could have done the figuring without a computer, it would just take a lot longer.

But historically war is the best motivator for developing new sciences in a hurry. Without WWII, and the cold war we would be a lot farther behind technologically.

Plus it is possible the groundwork may have already been laid, there's always a mad scientist somewhere doing things that seem crazy, this one just lucked out that his work was really needed. "Hey, Crazy Joe, we can't use computers and metal anymore, can we work with you on your development of new organisms as tools?"

[Aramanthus]

I agree with LostOne on that note. I think that there already labs in place long before the Nexus even was under development. There places across the globe where bio research is taking place. It would be too difficult for Nexus to blast them all before at least a decent portion of those new proto devices were hidden fom it's view.

[The Baron of chaos]

On the terms suggested by Lostone I'd have to agree, in part. Still I find the general tech level of Splicer world, both biological and no biological, unusually high compared to the rest of the megaverse, with only exception of phase world. Is kinda weird.Like there should be a mistery behind. Some things are just...too easy. But I suppose there is no mistery and simply no one truly thought about the implications of doing a setting for Palladium system(useing it is accepting that soon or later you'll deal with the rest of megaverse in a way or another)

[demos606]

Ya know Demos your answer here arise again the most common question of Splicer setting: how biotech was developed in first place? think about it. Nanoplague. Laboratories impossible to utilize, super computers needed to for calculation useless and dangerous, many scientist passed away, brutally killed by their own instruments before they can do anything. How they devised the protohost armors? uncle bob and his sister danced the lovedance with each others in toxic waste till they sire freakish demented symbiotes? This is VERY unlikely. As it is the gift from the machine(yeah sure I'll believe when an official sourcebook will say it).

It's implied a number of places that biotech is either a gift from a symbiotic alien race or from the Lilith personality. I personally go the symbiotic alien route but in the end whatever works for you is the best way to play it. As far as having to deal with the rest of the Megaverse at some point, only by GM fiat is this even an issue. Splicers was essentially designed as a self contained setting and neither imports nor exports characters especially well from a player perspective.

[Aramanthus]

It says in the book that it was a gift from symbiotic aliens? Could you please state page number in the book. It has been a long time since I read it.

[demos606]

I'm 4 states from my books so no chance I can give page refs for anything right now

[Aramanthus]

Four states from your books? On vacation? Or work? That stinks to be that far from your books!

[The Baron of chaos]

hmm i'm checking my book(i'm lucky all my palladium books are right under my bed(with the result of my bed being few inches higher than it should be ) but it just suggest it, actually it does not say the origin of biotech. Is a saecret as true nature and origin of Nightlords(another point in common with Nightbane...magic apart they share a lot)

[Aramanthus]

My books are right here at my apartment. I have trouble being seperated from them for more than a couple of days.

[demos606]

I'm job hunting and doing groundwork towards buying a house so I'm a little more willing to sacrifice a few creature comforts for a while right now. Normally everything's within arms reach though. As far as the book implications as to the origins or bio-tech, I did say they were were implications which means you aren't going to find a direct statement of "this is where biotech came from". Carmen did a fabulous job of not boxing the setting in too much for GMs with excessive metaplot in the backstory, though it has caused a few headaches when folks try to overthink the setting

[Aramanthus]

I don't blame you! I am also job hunting! The market really stinks at this time. I hope you find a great one Demos606!