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Ok, I've got an encounter that is coming up. The players are Coalition with a crazy, a fairy, and a cyber-knight who are based at a Coalition base. Tensions are high because of the fairy, but as she's helped the base before, and the current threat is one of the Mechanoids from the original wave was successful in bringing more from their home dimension. Even the coalition has decided (unofficial ruling of course) that it will work with magic users seeing as the threat to all human life is incredibly high. A nearby city is about to be attacked.The player group along with 4 SAMAS, 2 Enforcers, and approximately 20 CS Grunts are to engage a Mechanoid Search and Destroy team (on route to the city) consisting of:

1 Weevil which will send combat information back and request assistance if needed
2 Skimmers
2 Wasps
2 Tunnel Crawlers
2 Exterminators
2 Seeker Pods
1 Type 1 Brute
1 Type 2 Brute
3 Assault Probes
5 Thinmen

Now, I'm thinking I may need to up the forces that will help the players but first my primary question: Is there any reasonable way to calculate how this fight will go?

I don't particularly feel like rolling for each action, for each combatant, or even for each group of type of combatant. Now is there any fair formula to find out who would win this while still allowing the players to play a significant role in winning or losing the battle?

Player group consist of:
Level 8 Dogboy
Level 2 Military Specialist
Level 2 Silverbell Fairy
Level 3 Crazy
Level 12 Cyber-Knight

Yeah, I think I'm going to have to sit down and do a moderate pre-game math session.

Yeah, I've been looking at the Cyber-Knight's sheet... he's going to be a beast in this fight!

Oh well, 7 year old character (In real life, on and off.) I think he's earned it.

Oh yeah, I forgot... there's a Shemarrian warrior in there too. Archie's been involved.

Not cybernetically speaking?

Since they have CS backing I would perhaps have a NPC use a laser target designator to bring in missile strikes, while the players work to help protect the guy using that and/or contain the Mechanoid forces. This way the players should be able to get in on the action easy enough, and still have a chance to survive.

When I do these missile strikes, or even say a ambush with extensive land mines or other explosives, I simply go for "dramatic effect" and don't roll for damage.

Injundon wrote:from a technical and tactical standpoint the mechanoids should obliterate them air support, heavy weapons, cannon fodder. Psionics and numbers. The players will need alot of help and luck as well as a good plan. If it's a random/suprise encounter, Chances are slim. If they have time to plan and have alot of explosives at their disposal it's it could work out realy well.

Oh heck no. I'm no killer GM. The players have the complete element of surprise. The group will know ahead of time and be able to set up an ambush.

I've had this many times with a Mechanoids adventure. Too many combatants on all sides. Mechanoids rarely travel alone, and if they do then you arent looking at an interesting encounter.

One idea that keeps coming up with over the past few years is calculate the averages.
Figure out the average amount of damage a player can do with each attack, multiply that times the number of attacks they have each round, add up all the players damage per round. Do the same for the enemy.
Now, calculate each groups total MDC, and (if needed) calculate how much MDC they could regenerate per round. This usually isnt much if anything, but it can make a small difference in a big, long battle.

Looking at total damage per round figure out how long it would take one side to wipe out the other. Whichever one would last longer wins the attrition war with MDC. Calculate how much damage the losing side would do to the winners if they lasted the full duration, and apply that damage evenly to everybody. It may involve killing off one or two of the lower MDC characters, but thats often how it would work if you played out each combat turn, one action at a time.

There are two problems with this system:
1: It takes absolutely no account for strategy or tactics. If you have a character with a relatively high damage output and relatively low MDC, it makes sense it would get killed earlier and thereby lose all its damage potential for the rest of the combat, meaning it wont be dealing out its share of damage and that side will be losing points the attrition war.
This is a common problem with juicers who wear light or medium body armor. They can carry heavy weapons and get an insane number of attacks, but even with auto-dodge they can get killed easily. Or in the case of a borg who got caught without his armor. It could also be a light Bot or PA with a crapload of mini-missiles. The system doesnt account for that either: ammo. If someone blasts off a bunch of mini-missiles or some other limited yet powerful attack, they wont be as effective in later rounds and the teams average damage output goes down.
If the opposition has any sense at all, they will gang up on the most dangerous (looking) opponent and wear them down quickly. Whereas the average system assumes the longest possible combat encounter by applying damage evenly to each character.

2: It doesnt account for special abilities or powers that limit enemies but dont destroy them like stun weapons, smoke, fog and blinding light, and all sorts of magic.


The system does work pretty well when dealing with combatants you dont actually care too much about. Like one time when I had a small town build up some decent defenses (MDC walls & towers, heavy laser turrets, SAM's, booby traps in the nearby forest) and prepare for a Mechanoid assault. When its a hundred mechanoids versus a hundred citizens plus the players, you dont really worry about exactly which people died and when. You expect it to be a small slaughter and just leave it at that. The players are the determining factor in whether the town wins the day, but you know you're going to lose a lot people regardless.

EDIT: I just realized the system also assumes that every attack always hits, which isnt a good assumption. If one side has much better hit bonuses than the others dodge bonuses, they could do very well even with less average damage per round. It also doesnt account for auto dodge which seriously increases the lifespan of anyone lucky enough to have it.
And THAT little issue doesnt account for the fact you can only dodge so many missiles at once. If your opponent fires off enough of them in one volley, you are going to get hit with something.


I suspect if you were really darn good with Microsoft Excel you might be able to come up with a calculator that figures out someones average combat effectiveness based on weapons, attacks per round, bonuses, some special powers, and MDC, and then compares it to another combatant and can declare a likely winner each time.

Heh, I tried doing all that actually. According to my calculations, without any player interference... both sides will wipe each other out within the first 15 seconds... so I guess I could just have the players watch?

Here's a quick and dirty method.

1) Assign each unit in the battle a rating between 1 and 10.
This is the total battle rating (BR) of each side.

2) Subtract the lower BR from the higher BR. That number is the tactical bonus held by one side of the force.

3) Each round of combat, play out what the players do against what segment of the enemy they engage and use the rules as normal. Describe the NPC vs. NPC stuff as background.

4) At the end of the round, roll 1D20 for each side. The side with tactical bonus adds that number. Calculate what the PCs did in the round to affect their side and add that as a bonus. This is the amount of damage done to each side. Whenever BR is destroyed, you name the units that got severely wounded or destroyed. You never say "BR", that all invisible in the background. They see Thinmen exploding and dogboy squads getting cut down.

5) Recalcuate BR for each side.

EXAMPLE

Let's say the NPC Coalition ranks up 50 BR and the Mechanoids have 70 BR. The Mechanoids have a +20 tactical advantage.

AMBUSH ROUND
Coalition = 50 BR
Mechanoids = 70 BR - surprised
The Coalition gets their sneak attack ambush! They roll D20 and get 13. The PCs attack and destroy what you consider 4 BR. Now the Mechanoid BR is 53 and their tac bonus is reduced to +3!

FIRST ROUND
Coalition = 50 BR
Mechanoids = 53 BR, +3 bonus
The PCs do some great stuff and destroy 7 BR. The Coalition rolls and gets a 4, kinda weak round of combat for them. The Mechanoids finally get to bring their devastating might into play. They roll 18 + 3 and destroy 21 BR worth of Coalition. Rut roh!

SECOND ROUND
Coalition = 29 BR
Mechanoids = 42 BR, +7 bonus
The PCs know the poopie is hitting the fan and decide to concentrate fire on the biggest Mechanoid threats and succeed in destroying 11 BR. Woot! The Coalition throws down with a 13. The Mechanoids press their advantage with 14 + 7 bonus.
The battlefield is littered with carnage.

THIRD ROUND
Coalition = 8 BR
Mechanoids = 18 BR, +10 bonus
The few remnants of the Coalition force flee like cowards! The PCs are left holding the bag and panic while throwing firepower at every direction, doing 8 BR worth of kills. The Mechanoids roll 12 + 10 for 22 BR damage...they slaughter the fleeing Coalition and that leaves 14 BR of damage for the players. Let's assume that 1 BR = 20 damage so hit the PCs with 280 damage spread about from collateral hits and explosions. Ouch!

FOURTH ROUND
Coalition = Dead
Mechanoids = 10 BR
With only 10 BR on the battlefield, the combat should go smoothly vs. the remaining PCs using the normal rules.

I like that, but why is it in the second round the Mechanoids only have a bonus of +7?