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Re: Balancing weapons
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:52 pm
by Dustin Fireblade
Yeah it's a problem in Rifts, but the basic premise is that weapons manufacturer's are on a war footing, attempting to build better weapons as fast as possible.
The problem with the laser rifle doing as much damage as a cannon on a tank is also a big gripe. I've heard of people allowing tank mounted laser cannons to shoot pulse/bursts, but I prefer to simply up the damage.
Re: Balancing weapons
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:22 pm
by Cybermancer
Personally, I don't think it's an issue of the pulse weapons doing too much damage, I think the big guns don't do enough.
Hand held weapons should be scaled agaisnt personal body armor, with some heavy weapons being scaled against power armor.
Power armor weapons should be scaled against the armor of power armor and some vehicles.
Tank and Robot weapons should be scaled against the armor of tanks and robots.
A person or persons in personal armor shouldn't be engaging tanks. They should be running away at best possible speed (and possibly different directions). The tank in turn, shouldn't be wasting its time with gnats.
This has long been a quirk about the Palladium system and I don't think it'll change. So my suggestion is the same as the poster before me. Simply raise the damage of the bigger weapons.
(Oh, and the weapons of later books doing more than the original book has a lot to do with something called power creep).
Re: Balancing weapons
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:26 pm
by Kagashi
I agree.
I suggest:
Small arms, body armor, exoskeletons, and power armor: keep as is. To me, this seems fairly balanced already.
Robots: X 2 on armor and damage (missiles remain constant), 50% cost
Tanks and APCs: X 2 on Damage (missiles remain constant), X 3 on armor
Other vehicles: X 2 Damage (missiles remain constant)
Magic items: 25% cost
JA-12s: Keep as is, but its GOT to cost a considerable amount more...1D6X10+10 damage? 4000 ft range? plus Kinetic grenades at 2000 ft range? 850K credits easy in my books.
Re: Balancing weapons
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:58 pm
by SkyeFyre
I have no problem with them as they are. Sure the damage is set up so that characters can survive an attack or two from a tank, but the fact of the matter is... that rifle will run out of ammo, that tank wont.
So while buddy's firing wild (-6 to strike) and wasting his e-clip because he's getting hammered by tank blasts, the tank just blasts away all day with full bonuses.
Re: Balancing weapons
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:14 pm
by SkyeFyre
I'm changing my avatar. Nekira hasn't posted in this thread.
Re: Balancing weapons
Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:48 am
by Killer Cyborg
darebear wrote:I dont have a lot of experience in GMing Rifts. However, when I look at weapons in different books there seems to be a vast difference in capablities (this is obviously no suprise). Evreything no a days seems to be pulse weapons which deal out damage by the bucket-load. I will cite Wilks weapons (but this problem seems to me to apply to the Coalition as well)
Wilks 320 laser pistol - 1d6, 20/40 shots (standard e-clip and long e-clip) vs:
Wilks 227 pulse pistol - 2d6 or 2 shots, 4d6, 12/24 shots
Wilks 237 backup pistol - 3d6 or 2 shots, 6d6, 8/16 shots
Wilks 447 laser rifle - 3d6, 20 shots vs.
Wilks 457 laser pulse rifle - 3d6 or 1d6x10 burst, 0/30 shots
Wilks 557 laser pulse rifle - 3d6 or 6d6 burst, 0/51 shots
It seems to me that the later weapons (both in Sourcebook 1 and Coalition War Campaign) seem to be vastly better then the weapons in the main Rifts book. In fact, the 457 does as much damage as the main gun on some Coalition tanks/robots.
Yup.
That's called "Power Creep."
So, two questions: a) any suggestions on balancing pulse weapons and b) can the weapons on vehicles and robots also pulse? It seems that those weapons have been left behind in the arms race. Also, it makes more sense to me that vehicular weapons would pulse vs. energy pistols/rifles.
a) Ignore certain weapons and books, or nerf the damage for later weapons.
b) Not unless specified.
But I think a good house rule is to have them be able to burst/spray as per p. 34 of the main Rifts book.
Is it just me or does the trend seem to be on doing greater and greater damage as each Rifts book comes out?
It's not just you.
They're not as bad about it now as they have been in the past, but it still happens.
How does one balance out the personal weapons vs. vehicular weapons?
Some people just increase the damage of vehicular weapons; I prefer to increase their ROF as described above.
Re: Balancing weapons
Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:30 am
by Natasha
Availability is another way to manage many things in the game.
Re: Balancing weapons
Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:05 pm
by LostOne
Welcome to the wonderful world of power creep. But not only that, why can't there be different "calibers" of weapons too?
Look at modern weapons, we have rifles going from the small .22 caliber to the hard hitting .50 caliber. Huge difference.
So why can't Wilks do the same thing, they make weapons with lower rated power capacitors for the non-military civilians just wanting some protection all the way up to the military rated rifles with all the bells and whistles.
But it really comes down to power creep.
Re: Balancing weapons
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:14 am
by ApocalypseZero
One could simply scale up the damage or use the increased Critical Hit range (like Armor Piercing Missiles) when using Vechiles (Power Armors, Robots, etc.). Simply use the 'Primary Use' descriptor under the weapons listed and give a boost against Body Armor targets if the weapon is Armor Piercing or Anti-Vehicle.
Perhaps, someone should go through and find out what all the Primary and Secondary use descriptors have been used throughout the books and come up with a system of 'bonuses' for when those weapons are used against things. One could essentially start 'Classing' all vehicle weapons using this.
"I'd do it, but I threw my back out humping your mom last night."-Jay, Mallrats
Re: Balancing weapons
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:48 am
by Kryzbyn
Kagashi wrote:I agree.
I suggest:
Small arms, body armor, exoskeletons, and power armor: keep as is. To me, this seems fairly balanced already.
Robots: X 2 on armor and damage (missiles remain constant), 50% cost
Tanks and APCs: X 2 on Damage (missiles remain constant), X 3 on armor
Other vehicles: X 2 Damage (missiles remain constant)
Magic items: 25% cost
JA-12s: Keep as is, but its GOT to cost a considerable amount more...1D6X10+10 damage? 4000 ft range? plus Kinetic grenades at 2000 ft range? 850K credits easy in my books.
Wow Hunter mobile guns just got a whole lot nastier...
Re: Balancing weapons
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:16 pm
by Kagashi
Then my desired results are achieved
