Extra Assasin Information

[Entiago]

Rifter #6 and Rifter #12

also Rifter #30 has some good optional skills

[Entiago]

In Rifter #12 the WP:Backstab ability.
I dont quite understand how this works, I know its has to be a surprise attack from the rear but I dont understand how damage is calculated since it can be interpreted several differant ways. x2 damage for teh attack, x3 damage for teh attack, x4 damage for the attack Etc.

It is refering to the level bonus IIRC.
at level 3 you get a backstab damage x2. at level 7 it is x3 damage, level 12 x4 and level 15 x5.
it is just worded weird in the book.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. As near as I can find, an attack from behind is not a critical by default. Page 46 (main book, second edition) mentions the victim cannot dodge (so the attack is guaranteed to hit and do damage ... unless he fails the strike roll entirely that is) and the victim (if he survives) will lack initiative for that melee around. However, I see no mention of it being critical. I believe in the 1st edition books the Hand to Hand: Assassin had a special technique that made it a critical, but that wasn't reprinted in 2nd edition. Which, having just looked at my first edition revised book, it sounds like the Back Stab is mostly just a reprinting of that ability. If you can find a second edition rule (in PF) that says it is critical then I'll admit I'm wrong. Hope that maybe helps your situation. Natural 20 of course would alter things (but that's the exception, not the rule). Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Entiago]

ahhhh well now you are mixing 2 different HtH rules...even tho it is a "Megaversal system", there are somethings that do not cross over well. But we shall try here:

(Using the rules from Rifter #12 for the skill)
Jerk (a level 7 assassin) sneaks up on Guard A. With his successful prowl roll he sneaks upon the Guard and has basically to roll to strike. Guard A cannot parry, dodge, or anything else because the prowl was successful. Jerk will have 1st init for the rest of the round, while Guard A will have no init (going last for the rest of the round).

A) Jerk rolls a successful strike with his Backstab skill and does damage x3 (because he is 7th level).

B) Jerk rolls a natural 20 to strike! His Backstab skill does damage x3 and that total is then again modified by x2.
I think the Guard is dead.

btw, in all my games a nat 20 anytime is a crit. even at level 1. I also say (in my games) that a strike from behind is a crit, even tho i cannot find it anywhere in the rules (1st or 2nd Ed). of course if you do this as well, the Guard A in scenerio B is definatly way dead.

Prysus the skill in disscussioin is from Rifter #12, called Backstab. But yes it is bassically as you put it, the ability in 1st ed turned into a skill for 2nd ed.

[Entiago]

ahhhh well now you are mixing 2 different HtH rules...even tho it is a "Megaversal system", there are somethings that do not cross over well. But we shall try here:

(Using the rules from Rifter #12 for the skill)
Jerk (a level 7 assassin) sneaks up on Guard A. With his successful prowl roll he sneaks upon the Guard and has basically to roll to strike. Guard A cannot parry, dodge, or anything else because the prowl was successful. Jerk will have 1st init for the rest of the round, while Guard A will have no init (going last for the rest of the round).

A) Jerk rolls a successful strike with his Backstab skill and does damage x3 (because he is 7th level).

B) Jerk rolls a natural 20 to strike! His Backstab skill does damage x3 and that total is then again modified by x2.
I think the Guard is dead.

btw, in all my games a nat 20 anytime is a crit. even at level 1. I also say (in my games) that a strike from behind is a crit, even tho i cannot find it anywhere in the rules (1st or 2nd Ed). of course if you do this as well, the Guard A in scenerio B is definatly way dead.

Prysus the skill in disscussioin is from Rifter #12, called Backstab. But yes it is bassically as you put it, the ability in 1st ed turned into a skill for 2nd ed.

In your example are you saying that Backstab replaces the "Critical from Behind" rule?
Which actualy makes alot more sense to me since backstab can be considered advanced critical from behind.

*Edit* I should add that I dont really think its over powered or anything either way (Assassins are supposed to be able to kill a target usualy within the first melee then escape before anyone notices) im just confused on how modifiers are applied.

yes. IMHO, Backstab is the skill that replaces the Crit from behind. As you put it, it is more advanced and much more dangerous. As they are Assassins, I believe you said it right as they are ment to kill within the first strike from behind, but they have to successfully pass that prowl skill. Afterall what good is an Assassin that cannot assassinate?

[Natasha]

They should put the less deadly one back in for the rest of us.
Or something. After all, I can sneak up on people, too!

[Entiago]

Ahhh that can be a bit difficult. As far as GMing groups of assassins. I once had a player as an assassin, in a group of Mercs and a Mage. Although I had a few adventures catered just for him, it was tricky for the rest of the group. But it was fun anyway.

I too used Tenchu as a background to model one of the adventures around, it worked out ok. As far as movies or other media....I cant really recall that much. Although The Profesional (Leon, Glogo 13) was good for assassinations. Ninja Scroll was a great anime for Ninjas and there are a few others out there (X, and one more I cant think of). Live action movies dont really do the ninja spirit much justice, but I am sure there may be one or two out there.

Good Luck!

[Shawn Merrow]

Live action movies dont really do the ninja spirit much justice, but I am sure there may be one or two out there.

Shinobi: Heart Under Blade was a good one.

[Northern Ranger]

It's also a matter of level in a given hand to hand skill. I can't recall now what level it is, but some hand to hands, especially in N&SS give critical from behind. Making any backstab an automatic X2. But I do love that assassin skill, Backstab.