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I really like Rifts but am a bigger fan of SDC settings. Is there a way to translate mdc into sdc without using the standard means of converting it? For example, in a sdc world where the only mdc was military grade vehicles, mecha, airships, anti-tank weapons and not something could be worn or carried as a weapon (save for anti-tank weapons, shoulder missile launchers) what would dead boy armor look like A.R. and sdc wise? Or even SAMAS armor? If an assault rifle does 5d6 sdc would a dead boy’s energy rifle do 8d6 sdc because its more powerful? Assuming that mdc was only for really big stuff, how would mdc creatures (roughly man sized demons, etc), mdc armor, hand held weapons, etc translate? Again with the idea that SAMAS armor wouldn’t be 3,500 sdc because nothing that small could have that much. Any ideas for switching stuff over? This is just a fun project for me to focus on between semesters that could possibly turn into a campaign.

whipped4073 wrote:

EvilDeathGuy wrote:I really like Rifts but am a bigger fan of SDC settings. Is there a way to translate mdc into sdc without using the standard means of converting it? For example, in a sdc world where the only mdc was military grade vehicles, mecha, airships, anti-tank weapons and not something could be worn or carried as a weapon (save for anti-tank weapons, shoulder missile launchers) what would dead boy armor look like A.R. and sdc wise? Or even SAMAS armor? If an assault rifle does 5d6 sdc would a dead boy’s energy rifle do 8d6 sdc because its more powerful? Assuming that mdc was only for really big stuff, how would mdc creatures (roughly man sized demons, etc), mdc armor, hand held weapons, etc translate? Again with the idea that SAMAS armor wouldn’t be 3,500 sdc because nothing that small could have that much. Any ideas for switching stuff over? This is just a fun project for me to focus on between semesters that could possibly turn into a campaign.

Conversion Book 1, p. 32.

Borg body armor & power armor suits have A.R. 16.

Thanks! Admittedly I don't have a lot of Rifts books. I'll pick that one up. 'course now how would one convert the mdc into sdc (assuming that something that size couldn't have as manyvsdc per the usual conversion) i.e. no one could move inarmor that had 800 sdc - too much material!

This is a related, though slightly different, question. Has anyone translated the Tattooed Men into HU or other SDC settings? If so, where? If not, any ideas how to do it?

As I recall, only the Maxi-men get an innate strength bonus...unless that changed after RUE. I was thinking there might be a Natural AR as well as SDC involved. Something like a +1 to AR for every tattoo after 6.

Maxi men had supernatural strength if I recall, the others did not.

Unless they boosted it with a tattoo that is...

whipped4073 wrote:

EvilDeathGuy wrote:

whipped4073 wrote:

EvilDeathGuy wrote:I really like Rifts but am a bigger fan of SDC settings. Is there a way to translate mdc into sdc without using the standard means of converting it? For example, in a sdc world where the only mdc was military grade vehicles, mecha, airships, anti-tank weapons and not something could be worn or carried as a weapon (save for anti-tank weapons, shoulder missile launchers) what would dead boy armor look like A.R. and sdc wise? Or even SAMAS armor? If an assault rifle does 5d6 sdc would a dead boy’s energy rifle do 8d6 sdc because its more powerful? Assuming that mdc was only for really big stuff, how would mdc creatures (roughly man sized demons, etc), mdc armor, hand held weapons, etc translate? Again with the idea that SAMAS armor wouldn’t be 3,500 sdc because nothing that small could have that much. Any ideas for switching stuff over? This is just a fun project for me to focus on between semesters that could possibly turn into a campaign.

Conversion Book 1, p. 32.

Borg body armor & power armor suits have A.R. 16.

Thanks! Admittedly I don't have a lot of Rifts books. I'll pick that one up. 'course now how would one convert the mdc into sdc (assuming that something that size couldn't have as manyvsdc per the usual conversion) i.e. no one could move inarmor that had 800 sdc - too much material!

The same page mentions a 1:1 conversion from M.D.C. to S.D.C., including damage from all weapons.

Personally, I use a 1:10 conversion, where each M.D.C. point (or M.D. point for weapons) becomes 10 S.D.C.

The 1:10 conversion is a goo didea. Thanks. That should keep 'advanced' weapons nasty without going too far over the top in a sdc setting. And setting A.R. ratings for the various power armors shouldn't be too tough with some cross-referencing. I'm off to track down that conversion book now. A couple months ago I got the Chaos Earth stuff. Fantastic reading. Was even thinking that a sdc chaos earth blended with the zombies from the rifter's dead reign article (hey who says all the casualities HAVE to stay down) Chaos earth with a taste of zombie survival horror thrown into the rest of the survival horror.... it could work.

I was thinking of trying something slightly different myself. I want to keep MD weapons vs. MDC Armor the same, and SD weapons vs SDC Armor the same, but I was thinking of tweaking the intersection of the two.

Basically, I was going to have MDC armor gets an AR or perhaps some kind of damage reduction against SDC weapons...enough that it's still powerful and scary, but not completely immune...a fully automatic assault rifle or high end SD explosives will still damage MDC armor, and, given enough quantity and time, eventually destroy it.

MD weapons function on a 1:1 conversion against SDC creatures/items, but ignore the AR/damage thingy against MDC. So, if you're fighting a suit of power armor, it's better to have a Wilks Laser Pistol, instead of a Magnum, but against a person you probably want the Magnum. It's not only cheaper to fire, but causes a lot more trauma, shock, and tissue damage.

The main reason is I've never understood why most MD weapons are "insta-kill" vs. a normal person. A laser blast might be powerful, and hurt, but I'm not sure it's more lethal/damaging than, say, a .50 caliber slug. Naturally, they both can kill. It's like, I guess, Depleted Uranium Rounds...sure, they're great killing tanks and other armored vehicles (hence MD weapons), but do they really do more raw damage to a soft human target than a more conventional weapon? Or, perhaps a better example, "armor piercing" rounds...do they do a magnitude higher of damage against non-armored targets?

Secondly, I think it will help me encourage my players to step out of their armor, and dress and act like normal people. If they aren't constantly afraid that someone pulling a vibro weapon on them will mean their immediate death, maybe they'll be willing to behave more like normal people, and, occasionally, get into a bar room brawl that doesn't leave half a town destroyed. Now, i haven't run Rifts in a loooong time, but I know at least some of my players could behave this way.

So, what do you guys think? Beside the Conversion book AR recommendations, do you have any other input for the AR/damage thresholds? I was thinking of a damage rating of 20 for MDC armor, or 1/10 of their total MDC, whichever is greater...would this be fair? Would this dichotomy maintain the Rifts feel of "egads mega damage!" or do you think such weapons and magic would grow "how hum" relatively quickly? At this point I'm just trying to come up with ideas, so I'm not overly attached to either.

Thanks!

Here are some conversion Rates for the Rifts RPG (also applicable to the Chaos Earth and Splicers RPGs) to convert M.D.C. power armor , bots , vehicles and weapons to the S.D.C. system (Hope this Helps as the Rules in the Conversion Book 1 don't quite cut the mustard).

Multiply M.D.C. by the Listed amounts to get the S.D.C. an item does/has.

M.D. Times 2 is now the S.D.C. damage for vibro-blades.

M.D. Times 2 is now the S.D.C. damage for hand-held Small Arms type weapons .

M.D. Times 3 (Tmes 2 for Man-sized Railguns) is now the S.D.C. damage for heavy or power armor mounted weapons (Includes Hand Grenades and the grenades used in Grenade Launchers), also note that Railguns do their converted burst damage in M.D. as S.D.C. PER A SINGLE SHOT (I.E. a C-40R SAMAS Railgun now does 2D4x10 S.D.C. per a single round) and that bursts from railguns should be treated as exacty the same as those of Machineguns.

M.D.Times 10 is now the S.D.C. damage for heavy vehicle mounted weapons (Includes the Glitter Boy's Boom Gun).

M.D. Times 10 is now the S.D.C. damage for explosives .

M.D.C. Times 3 is now the S.D.C. for body armor (this puts Plastic-Man roughly equivalent with riot armor) and ALL Rifts High-Tech Body Armor has the equivalent of Natural/Robot A.R.

M.D.C. Times 3 is now the S.D.C. for power armor , cyborgs , small vehicles, and man-sized robots (this gives a Death's Head SAMAS 750 S.D.C., about as much as a mack truck) and ALL Bionic Systems and Military Vehicles have an equivalent of Natural/Robot A.R.

M.D.C. Times 3 is now the S.D.C. for M.D.C. tanks, conventional vehicles that are larger than man sized, ships , submarines, Glitter Boys and Giant Robots (this gives the largest Iron Heart Armaments tank something like 1900 S.D.C., which is better but still in the same ballpark as an M-1 Abrams at 1500 S.D.C.), and also ALL Military Vehcles have an equivalent of Natural/Robot A.R.

M.D.C. Times 1 to Times 10 for truly massive things (starships, Chi-Town, etc). The balance on these kinds of things varies dramatically (See the below notes on A.R. for these).

Use the rules on page 32 of the Rifts Conversion Book One Revised Edition to Determine the Armor Ratings (A.R.) for these items.

Exo-skeleton body armor and Partial Conversion Cyborgs and most Juicers have a physical strength equal to the Heroes Unlimited Minor Super Ability : Extraordinary Physical Strength, Power Armor and Full Conversion Cyborgs have an physical strength equal to the Heros Unlimited Minor Super Ability : Super Human Physical Strength , and Giant Robots have an equivalent physical strength to the Heroes Unlimited Major Super Ability : Super Human Physical Strength.

NOTE: For magical creatures, spells, and creations just use the rules on page 31 of the Rifts Conversion Book One Revised Edition to turn them into S.D.C./Hit Point equivalent things, then take a look at how they stat out and modify them to your liking.

panzerfaust wrote:Here are some conversion Rates for the Rifts RPG (also applicable to the Chaos Earth and Splicers RPGs) to convert M.D.C. power armor , bots , vehicles and weapons to the S.D.C. system (Hope this Helps as the Rules in the Conversion Book 1 don't quite cut the mustard).

I was going to post my own house rule about this issue, but I like this so much that I'm going to discard it and take yours!

mobuttu wrote:

panzerfaust wrote:Here are some conversion Rates for the Rifts RPG (also applicable to the Chaos Earth and Splicers RPGs) to convert M.D.C. power armor , bots , vehicles and weapons to the S.D.C. system (Hope this Helps as the Rules in the Conversion Book 1 don't quite cut the mustard).

I was going to post my own house rule about this issue, but I like this so much that I'm going to discard it and take yours!

Thanks, I live to serve.

No, what he is saying is that a weapon that does 3d6 MDC in Rifts will do 6d6 SDC in Heroes Unlimite or After The Bomb, rather than 3d6 * 100

AlanGunhouse wrote:No, what he is saying is that a weapon that does 3d6 MDC in Rifts will do 6d6 SDC in Heroes Unlimite or After The Bomb, rather than 3d6 * 100

Correct! Bingo! Gunhouse wins the Cupie doll with his blindingly acurrate powers of interperatation! LOL.....

whipped4073 wrote:Why buy the Rifts vibro-blade, when you can just bring in a "low-tech" AU vibro-blade with a naturally higher S.D.C. damage?

Couple reasons:

1) Not every game group has all the group, nor do all of them allow instant transfer of items between the various settings.

2) Rifts earth has a more classic military view of the world, and as such focus on missiles, artillery, and rifles, and as such have not pushed vibro-tech as far as they could. States like the CS and the NGR tend to avoid getting involved in melee comat.

It's also why I like the AR/DR threshhold idea. The Rifts vibro-blade in that idea does ignores the protective featurs, while the SDC weapon gets stymied. So, in an SDC knife fight, one would prefer the AU weapon; if the combatants have armor, though, then the Rift knife comes out ahead.

One thing that worries me about panzerfaust rules is that his conversion leaves magic/psionics at disatvantage in respect of technology, which it is supossed to be the weapons contrast. How can we fix this? My proposal for magic to x2 to SDC lower level Invocations and x3 high level ones (10 or higher). What about psionics (such as psi-sword et. al.)?

mobuttu wrote:One thing that worries me about panzerfaust rules is that his conversion leaves magic/psionics at disatvantage in respect of technology, which it is supossed to be the weapons contrast. How can we fix this? My proposal for magic to x2 to SDC lower level Invocations and x3 high level ones (10 or higher). What about psionics (such as psi-sword et. al.)?

Usually I use the Magic and psionic power versions as they are Described in HU2, PF2 and BtS2 istead of the rifts versions of the same powers, and where there IS NO EQUIVALENT Spell or Psionic power I multiply by time 2 OR 3 depending on how I see the power... My rules above are really for tech Items only......

whipped4073 wrote:

AlanGunhouse wrote:No, what he is saying is that a weapon that does 3d6 MDC in Rifts will do 6d6 SDC in Heroes Unlimite or After The Bomb, rather than 3d6 * 100

Except that that does reflect a drop.

Rifts Vibro-Knife: 1D6 M.D., converts down to 2D6 S.D.C.
Aliens Unlimited Vibro-Knife (IIRC): 3D6+3 S.D.C.

Why buy the Rifts vibro-blade, when you can just bring in a "low-tech" AU vibro-blade with a naturally higher S.D.C. damage?

As for the AU vibro blades doing more Damage then the Converted Rifts versions the AU ones ARE MORE ADVANCED then them..... HOWEVER.... the AU stuff would be very rare on Rifts Earth..... If it's unaavailable, no matter how desirable it is, you'll have to buy local goods..... Any AU conversion character must also watch his advanced vibro-blades like a hawk lest some one try to: "take them from him witout his consent." Which in english means "Stolen from him"....

Some notes to remember:
To have a prayer of even slightly damaging a tank, Giant Robot or Very Heavy PA (like like a GB, Terror Trooper or an Ulti-Max) you need at least one of the following (anything short of these ping off harmlessly):

Magic based Attacks
Heavy Machineguns
Rail Guns
Heavy Anti-Tank Weapons
Powerfull Explosives
Energy weapons
Any Rifts Small Arms that originally did M.D.C., even though they have been converted to the S.D.C. system.
And Vibro and/or Kisentite Blades.

Those are the rules I use.

Now getting the same damage from a lower technology is not impossible, the effect tends to be a bit cruder and the device heavier.

macksting wrote:From Mutants in Orbit
AtB: 4 lbs.
Rifts: 4 lbs.

Cruder, sure. That same weight and the clearly vast differential in technology between the settings, however, should imply that the damage of the more advanced model should, simply, be higher. Preferably much higher. If 2d6x100 seems a bit much, so be it, but 2% of that seems... a little bit too nerfed. Especially since 2% represents, roughly, the technology level of After the Bomb.
Of course, part of this is the problem of writing a sourcebook for both games, but I think my point's pretty solid.

Your not realizing something Macksting..... When I convert Rifts stuff to S.D.C. I don't consider it any more avanced then the best of HU earth for example.... it's roughly equal or, in a few cases, LESS advanced then it.... And what I listed is TWICE what a NORMAL weapon of the same type does: thats pretty good, plus it can affect things like Armored vehicles which a normal sword, for instance, wouldn't hurt one iota. The thing to remember when using my rules is, when you use them, it's best to assume the advanced Rifts earth tech is considered equal to the best that HU2 earth can make (in some cases less advanced and in some cases, slightly higher) but a bit more common too.... It is a balance issue for me (Note: I belive that Balance does NOT neccesarily mean EQUAL): If I covert Rifts stuff to other games I DON'T WANT it massively more powerfull then stuff from the other, S.D.C., settings (in other words the S.D.C. Mutant in Orbits and Rifts earth ARE about EQUAL in tech in my Estimation when using these rules), aloso where Mutants in orbit and Rifts conflic on the Vibro blades I'd recomend using the Coverted Rifts versions. Hope it helps.

panzerfaust wrote:

macksting wrote:From Mutants in Orbit
AtB: 4 lbs.
Rifts: 4 lbs.

Cruder, sure. That same weight and the clearly vast differential in technology between the settings, however, should imply that the damage of the more advanced model should, simply, be higher. Preferably much higher. If 2d6x100 seems a bit much, so be it, but 2% of that seems... a little bit too nerfed. Especially since 2% represents, roughly, the technology level of After the Bomb.
Of course, part of this is the problem of writing a sourcebook for both games, but I think my point's pretty solid.

Your not realizing something Macksting..... When I convert Rifts stuff to S.D.C. I don't consider it any more avanced then the best of HU earth for example.... it's roughly equal or, in a few cases, LESS advanced then it.... And what I listed is TWICE what a NORMAL weapon of the same type does: thats pretty good, plus it can affect things like Armored vehicles which a normal sword, for instance, wouldn't hurt one iota. The thing to remember when using my rules is, when you use them, it's best to assume the advanced Rifts earth tech is considered equal to the best that HU2 earth can make (in some cases less advanced and in some cases, slightly higher) but a bit more common too.... It is a balance issue for me (Note: I belive that Balance does NOT neccesarily mean EQUAL): If I covert Rifts stuff to other games I DON'T WANT it massively more powerfull then stuff from the other, S.D.C., settings (in other words the S.D.C. Mutant in Orbits and Rifts earth ARE about EQUAL in tech in my Estimation when using these rules), aloso where Mutants in orbit and Rifts conflic on the Vibro blades I'd recomend using the Coverted Rifts versions. Hope it helps.

I'll have to agree becasue the HU universe has gentics capable of giving people super power, they are on a regular basis traveling people to dimensions that is far beyond the power of Rifts

macksting wrote:Ah. Then the misunderstanding is primarily mine. I was under the impression you'd be maintaining the Rifts power level otherwise; different, more effective (space-applicable) hover technology, mass produced lifelike robots, remarkable biosystems, powerful M.O.M. technology, very small railguns, and Ulti-Maxes.
If you're reducing the tech level, why not just run a post-apocalyptic HU scenario?

No Prob. HU2 has all these things, when you include the AU books, and PU 1, 2 and 3 (and at a more powerful level in many cases), the main difference is that these things are MUCH more common/run of the mill on Rifts Earth than on Heros unlimited Earth.... My rules are pretty simple and strait forward to use/impliment though they may seem a bit complicated, they're really not, ..... (hardest part, really, is just assigning an A.R. to things) I've come up with these rules to convert Rifts stuff for the, other, S.D.C. settings mainly, though I'm intrigued by implications of what Rifts would be like as a pure S.D.C. setting (don't get me wrong I LOVE M.D.C. setting too, though). In fact, I've considered running an S.D.C. based Rifts Campain AS a post apocalyptic Heros Unlimited scenario, actually.....

macksting wrote:*quirks a brow*
Perhaps I spoke too soon. If the misunderstanding isn't mine, it must be yours, or you're blowing smoke. If you weren't dropping the tech level, your alien tech wouldn't be so vastly inferior to Rifts stuff. I've read through AU. I remember Kisentite; I don't remember their robotic armors being godlike.
And I'm sorry, but the Supersoldier options aren't exactly Hyperion or Delphi juicers, nor are the M.O.M. conversions exactly Psyscape.

Please use fewer ellipses.

Dude lighten up...

The bottom line:
I treat Rifts stuff as Being equal too (sometime MORE, sometime LESS so) in level of tech to the Most advanced of HU2 Earth. HU2 Earth is the Key phrase here as I diferentiate it from the AU setting here (NOTE: some things DON'T covert over perfectly though, so I leave that to GMs) when converting it to other, S.D.C. settings. It doesn't NEED to be Super Powerful if comparison (If you do that it may as well be kept a M.D.C.), you can if you want to, but you may find (like I did) that it may ruin game balance and your enjoyment of things as GM (You need to look at some of the Century Station and Gramercy Island Robot Armors as some of the one at the same size have more S.D.C. than a SAMAS converted with my rules before complaining that my rules make Robots and PA "godlike").

I posted these rule for others so they may enjoy them, not get in a flame war bout 'em.... If you like 'em use 'em if not, don't.. it's as simple as that

macksting wrote:Ah. Then the misunderstanding is primarily mine. I was under the impression you'd be maintaining the Rifts power level otherwise; different, more effective (space-applicable) hover technology, mass produced lifelike robots, remarkable biosystems, powerful M.O.M. technology, very small railguns, and Ulti-Maxes.
If you're reducing the tech level, why not just run a post-apocalyptic HU scenario?

I think we're crossing wires here... What I was try trying to say to the effect in responce to the above post is: When you take M.D.C. out of the equation, HU2 Earth HAS all the same technologies as Rifts Earth, only it's more common, and some times more developed (As well as sometimes LESS so), on Rifts earth. sorry bout the elipses.

macksting wrote:S'okay, you used 'em less here.
Note #1: SAMAS wasn't a good example of what I mean by alien robots being godlike. However, as you stated, you're not trying to compare AU alien tech to HU alien tech. (Your posts above seemed to be an attempt to do so.).

That is Correct

macksting wrote:Note #2: We'll have to agree to disagree about HU2 Earth having all the same technologies, developed or not. While it clearly has leaps, bounds, and close passes, including efforts by Powers Unlimited to create bio-systems (Eugenics), juicers and crazies (Supersoldier variants), and such, it is my opinion that there are magics and technologies available in Earth technology (much less Splynn's stuff) which don't have a match in HU2 until the power creep catches up.
That said, you are dropping the tech level, so your posts make a touch more sense. I'm still not sure you're too firm on your atmosphere, yet. Your comparisons above make me wonder.

Sorry sometimes I fail to use the correct words to desribe my thoughts..... (that's my mild case of Autisim speaking for ya) A more Acurate description would be that when you take M.D.C. outa the picture the Native Technology of RIfts Earth and HU Earth are mostly the same the same things, but usually more common and developed on Rifts Earth (this DOES NOT include "magic" OR the tech from "Alien" groups, like the sploogs have), though rifts earth has stuff HU Earth doesn't have I was only speaking in broad, general, terms and not specifics, and I thinks that's were we both got confused....

Very nice, indeed.
My only question to make sure i have it right is: by this system if a guy with a 3d6 gun shoots my person with an A.R. of 11 i would subtract 22 from the 3d6 roll for damage?

coglio wrote:Just my 2 cents here. I'm a fan of Palladium, and love the fact that the games are all compatible with each other ... except for the whole MDC/SDC thing. I know why they did it, but it was a bad idea, IMO. It makes the SDC and MDC games incompatible with each other, unless you engage in some rigorous conversion.

I liked some of the ideas here for bridging the two. My own house rule is very simple and works very effectively to have the two work together without serious work.

I convert all values into straight SDC, on a 1:1 basis. So, MDC of 100 is now SDC 100. However, the "MD" means mega armor, basically. All armor is converted into damage reduction, with MD armor automatically 40 points. Regular, AR armor, has it's value doubled for damage resistance (and skips the whole "roll above AR" rule, which I never liked).

MD weapons do the stated amount of damage, +40.

So, basically, SDC weapons are the same against SDC opponents. MD weapons are the same against MD opponents (the +40 damage and 40 armor cancel each other out), and any SDC damage that exceeds 40 is basically MD damage, while MD weapons still deal a lot of damage to SDC targets.

The end result is MD being weakened, but it plays nicely now with SDC without undue problems and it still makes sense. I can take my Heroes Unlimited characters and throw them into a Rifts environment, and they mix well.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

EvilDeathGuy wrote:I really like Rifts but am a bigger fan of SDC settings. Is there a way to translate mdc into sdc without using the standard means of converting it? For example, in a sdc world where the only mdc was military grade vehicles, mecha, airships, anti-tank weapons and not something could be worn or carried as a weapon (save for anti-tank weapons, shoulder missile launchers) what would dead boy armor look like A.R. and sdc wise? Or even SAMAS armor? If an assault rifle does 5d6 sdc would a dead boy’s energy rifle do 8d6 sdc because its more powerful? Assuming that mdc was only for really big stuff, how would mdc creatures (roughly man sized demons, etc), mdc armor, hand held weapons, etc translate? Again with the idea that SAMAS armor wouldn’t be 3,500 sdc because nothing that small could have that much. Any ideas for switching stuff over? This is just a fun project for me to focus on between semesters that could possibly turn into a campaign.

If your a Fan of HU2 just use the ROBOT Power Catagory suggestions :
Add all MDC Hit-Locations together, x2 = SDC
AR, use the Max AR for the Robot type, AR 15 for Exoskeletons/PowerArmors, AR 17 for Robot Vehicles, AR 13 for most EBA Body Armor
Same can be done for Cyborgs as for Robots, PA, RVs, etc...

AR is an increased chance of not being hit, for natural AR anyway. If it is Armor, then anything between the basic miss chance and the AR hits the armor instead.

I am also a 1 MDC=10 SDC conversion guy. I am a big fan of that because it makes the game more fun and a little less deadly. (I'd like to point out that people still die all over the place, so obviously the effect has been nil)

Balabanto wrote:I am also a 1 MDC=10 SDC conversion guy. I am a big fan of that because it makes the game more fun and a little less deadly. (I'd like to point out that people still die all over the place, so obviously the effect has been nil)

The effects aren't nil if people still die. Whether it has an effect is if people still live.

This is a very interesting thread. I've been thinking of running a RIFTs game for awhile but not a huge fan of MDC.I'll reference this thread when I start my prep work for the campaign.