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Why not just use the attack roll to determine the damage instead of an extra d20 roll?

bob the desolate one wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Why not just use the attack roll to determine the damage instead of an extra d20 roll?

Well i never really found the concept of hit points that realistic and i figured this would be a good way to do away with hit points and damage ratio's for different weapons of course Its not perfect and probably has its flaws but eh i figured i would give it a go

Right.
I'm just saying that you might as well modify that chart and apply it directly to the strike roll, instead of rolling a d20 to hit, then a d20 on the chart.

P.S. how ya been KC

Stressed.
I need to find a decent job by fall.

Pretty decent other than that.

Sounds like you would probably like HARP or Rolemaster, they use a similar system to what you've proposed. You can get a free copy of HARP Lite and check it out. Just follow the link and it's on the left under free downloads.

Compendium of Contemporary Weapons is all ya need. It has a great section on damage thresholds per location on the human body and lots of other optional stuff to make guns more lethal.

In my games, all gun shots and puncture wounds do damage direct to HP. Rules lawyering off of HP has never been an issue.

Grell wrote:In my games, all gun shots and puncture wounds do damage direct to HP. Rules lawyering off of HP has never been an issue.

That's actually not a bad idea.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Why not just use the attack roll to determine the damage instead of an extra d20 roll?

I agree, but then the table should be rearranged because results below 4 (H2H) or 8 (ranged) are missed hits, and therefore Grazing wounds were impossible. I think.

bob the desolate one wrote:Ok folks one thing thats always plagued me is hit points in game systems Don't get me wrong i love Rifts and i play the rules 90% cannon but Hit points can lead to rule lawyering (I.E. " it doesn't matter i just shot him in the leg i did MDC damage hes SDC he should be dead") so heres a solution i have been toying around with

OK it would go like this.
Attacker rolls a D20 to strike defender As usual But instead of damaging the targets hit points he rolls a D20 using the following table.
1-5= Grazing wound.
6-10= Moderate wound.
11-15=Serious wound.
16-18=Critical wound.
19-20 Fatal wound.
And for every Wound the defender has it gives a + to damage roll and theses do stack.
Grazing wound.: 2 wounds=+1
Moderate wound.:1 wound=+2
Serious wound.:1 wound=+3
Critical wound.: 1 wound=+4
Fatal wound.:1 wound=death

Feel free to chew this apart folks just something I'm puttering with i have been for a while this is just the newest incarnation.

So what would the difference be between a .44 magnum as opposed to a 9mm? Or a greatsword as opposed to a little dagger?

Here's a "wound track" idea you could try:

1) Everyone gets a Health bonus equal to [(SDC + HP)/10]. So if you have 23 SDC and 15 HP, then you have a +4 Health Bonus. Maybe add any PE bonus as well.

2) Each weapon is assigned a Damage Factor. This is max damage divided by 5 (round down). For ablative armor, all you would have to do is divide all MDC / SDC of armor by 5 to get the new armor points. Thus 80 MDC armor now has 16 armor points vs. MDC attacks. Simply tick off the damage modifier points as armor gets hit.

3) The target number for the damage save is 10 (or 15 if you want a lethal game) plus the damage modifier. So a Dagger with a 1 modifier has a damage save of 11 and a Naruni pistol with a 8 modifier has a damage save of 18. Critical hits double the damage modifier so the Naruni pistol would do 16 pts to armor on a crit and the
damage save becomes 26!

4) The victim makes a D20 + Toughness bonus vs. the target number. If successful, the damage is only a Flesh Wound. If fails, the damage is a Bloody Wound. If the Bloody wounds cause -4 to all rolls and all stats until healed. If the target has PE lower than the damage modifier, they are killed outright. This means that a PE 12 character will reach PE 0 with 3 Bloody Wounds and probably the last one will kill him if the weapon has a damage factor of 4 or higher.

Example: Let's say Oscar the Vagabond is in a shooting match with ED-209 the CS Commando. Both have laser guns that do 1D6 x 10 damage, so thus the damage modifier is +12 (60/5). Oscar has 12 PE and +4 Health Bonus and the Commando has 24 PE and a +9 Health bonus.

Round One
They both shoot each other. Oscar hits the CS commando who takes 12 points off his armor. The Commando hits Oscar and Oscar gets to make a damage save. He has to roll D20+4 vs. 22 (10 + 12 for the laser) and he fails. Oscar takes a Bloody Wound. He now suffers -4 to all his rolls and his stats are considered 4 lower so his PE is effectively 8. Since his PE was 12, that's not lower than the damage factor of the weapon so he's just bloody and not insta-kill.

Round Two
Both shoot again. Oscar amazingly crits the Commando and does 24 damage which takes out the last 8 points of the Commando's armor so now 16 points goes into his meaty bits. The damage save is D20 + 9 vs. 26 and the Commando saves! He only takes a Flesh Wound from the hit. The commando shoots Oscar and hits. Oscar must make a Damage save of D20 +5 (+9 -4) vs. 22 and he fails Since the damage modifier of the weapon is 12 and Oscar's current PE is only 8, that means Oscar gets his head blown off.

Viola! No more counting HP or SDC and no other changes to the system. Hmm...I gotta try this out myself...