Yet more magic questions

[Marcethus]

10) TW for Touch attacks... of course my intended use is TW mini missle intended to cast teleport lesser on CS body armor (not PA) to teleport it to the mage... Could be un-nerving to be suddenly standing there in your scivies. (planned to use armor bane in the spell chain)

Interesting application I would have to figure out the requirements to be able to build the device but I would say once you have all the required components yeah I'd allow it. (I am not all that familiar with Techno-Wizards.

[Marcethus]

I would have to look into just exactly what Teleport Lesser could do its been a while since I have looked at that spell. But for balance reasons I would make it rather expensive to create said thing.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I am of the opinion that the caster can't use Mystic Portal or Teleport Superior to gain access inside a DHT, unless the caster has insider knowledge of it. Both spells require the caster to know where he's teleporting too, although Teleport Superior can be used if you have seen a picture of a place or had it described in detail.


The idea of using Teleport Lesser on the EBA sounds interesting, though I can see it teleporting things like ammo belts or other items off rather than the armor.

[Dustin Fireblade]

The idea of using Teleport Lesser on the EBA sounds interesting, though I can see it teleporting things like ammo belts or other items off rather than the armor.

Armor Bane says armor doesnt get a saving throw even if being worn... so with a touch attack you can affect just the armor without a saving throw. and Swords to Snakes spell affects even MD rifles without a saving throw. Teleport can move up to 50 lbs (most armor is far less).

As far as making it more expensive to use this way... Teleport Lesser only cost 15 PPE and uses Lapis Lazuli ...hard to make it too expensive.

That being said is the biggest objection the mechanics or game balance?

Game balance doesn't exist in Rifts. I don't have any objections to this idea though - I just thought it might be funny to teleport other items rather than the intended armor.

[sHaka]

The idea of using Teleport Lesser on the EBA sounds interesting, though I can see it teleporting things like ammo belts or other items off rather than the armor.

Armor Bane says armor doesnt get a saving throw even if being worn... so with a touch attack you can affect just the armor without a saving throw. and Swords to Snakes spell affects even MD rifles without a saving throw. Teleport can move up to 50 lbs (most armor is far less).

As far as making it more expensive to use this way... Teleport Lesser only cost 15 PPE and uses Lapis Lazuli ...hard to make it too expensive.

That being said is the biggest objection the mechanics or game balance?

I'd allow your TW's idea. Away from the books so I can't calculate cost/construction, but if the TW wants to spend his time making a missle that removes EBA (not PA) by teleportation from a target then why not.

Considering that one or two conventional mini-missles can "remove" body armour quite effectively, I don't see an issue of game balance, especially considering the cost of building the things. Would be quite a cool effect though, and would remove the risk of collateral damage. Might be useful for magic squads tackling tech threats in urban environments like Kingsdale/Dweomer. I would reward the TW with appropriate XP too!

[Library Ogre]

1) Can teleport superior/lesser or mystic portal allow you entrance to a CS Deathshead with all the doors closed and sealed? (was my understanding only a force field could stop them)

Yes.

2) How much or little interaction can TW have with normal technology... TW weapon created designed for use with a range finder... pops up energy fields infront of samas to bounce off of.

The normal tech rangefinder would work, but you'd have to specifically design the TW weapon to function with a rangefinder to have it pop one up at a given range in the rangefinder.

3) Palladium Summoner: Circle of knowledge... Can a lizard mages tongue be used? For that mater could a leyline walkers or shifters? The circle discription says "Wizard"... but thats all there really is in Palladium fantasy.

A lizard mage would count as a member of both his OCCs; there's nothing special mentioned about their tongues. Where it says "Wizard", assume that any learned spellcaster (as opposed to a Warlock, who doesn't learn his magic, or a Diabolist, who doesn't cast spells) will suffice.

4) does a diabolists AOE runes penetrate power armor or robotic vehicles?

Assuming they do not have a physical component, yes; fear will, but Energy will have to go through them, first.

5) Can a Tecno Wizard use eight or so TK Rifles to make a TW gatling gun and get more than one shot per round, particcularly if they are on ppe batteries?

He can design a TK gatling gun, and I imagine it would use similar principles to a TK Rifle.

6) Can a TW device be create to have multple simultanious effects, even if they are the same effect, to boost the damage... instead of a grenade that does shockwave a TW fusion block that does 4 Shockwave spells at once?

I would count it as 4 devices; otherwise, you're just pumping the damage above what your level usually allows you to design.

7) any reason not to incorporate E Sphere into a TW melee weapon with the intention of stealling, and holding,the doubled PPE of those they slay?

Money and time, time and money.

10) Can TW mini missles be used with spells that require touch to FAR extend the range?

I suppose.

[sHaka]

That being said is the biggest objection the mechanics or game balance?

I'd allow your TW's idea. Away from the books so I can't calculate cost/construction, but if the TW wants to spend his time making a missle that removes EBA (not PA) by teleportation from a target then why not.

Considering that one or two conventional mini-missles can "remove" body armour quite effectively, I don't see an issue of game balance, especially considering the cost of building the things. Would be quite a cool effect though, and would remove the risk of collateral damage. Might be useful for magic squads tackling tech threats in urban environments like Kingsdale/Dweomer. I would reward the TW with appropriate XP too!

I object to both the mechanics and game balance.

I'm away from my books right now, so I'll check this later for 100% accuracty, but here's my argument so far:

Teleport lesser has a specific size/weight limit. Furthermore, the mage is needed to specify which mass gets teleported. A missile would have no way of knowing, other than simply teleporting the first thing it hits. You would have to include the mass of any air, terrain, SDC objects, etc. If the sum-total of mass within the teleport AoE exceeds the maximum mass possible to move via teleport:lesser, then I would rule that the spell fails (instead of teleporting off pieces or shearing through armor). Also, it says that the spell cannot move organic material, not that the spell decides which is which. IE, if your missile impacts on an armor-wearing lifeform, it's likely to try to teleport the mass closest from the impact outwards, in a sphere (or cone, I suppose, depending on missile). Either way, it's going to encounter living tissue, which may make the spell fail. Furthermore, where are you teleporting the removed mass to? You need to know that before you cast the spell, imo, and any way of "programming it in" is going to wind up with errors from time to time, even if it's possible to "program" a spell in that manner.

To sum up- Teleport: Lesser is designed to have a consciousness and a will to specify target, distance, and location. Sure, your idea sounds cool, but it's not very appropriate within the context of the game.

~RS

I agree the mechanics are a little messy but, as you say, the idea is cool and I never let mechanics get in the way of a cool idea. The GM would have to establish how these kinks would play out - it is the GM who decides the outcome of TW items after all, the TW can only describe the intent.

I don't see what's unbalancing about them though. I too am away from my books, but I imagine each missile will cost at least 3 or 4 times the cost of a conventional war head and take a heck of a lot of time to construct.

So you either a) hit a dead boy with a TW armour teleporting mini-missile and he's naked and it costs X thousand creds and Y man hours of construction or
b) hit a dead boy with two armour-piercing mini-missiles and he's toast and it cost considerably less than option a in time and money.

If there's an imbalance, it's in the conventional weapon's favour as the benefits of such a missile are few, but not without practical some applications.

[Marcethus]

Fast exit: Cast a couple of good defensive spells (Wall spells that will take a while to get through then (as an astral Mage) Step into the astral plane and you have a clean getaway,

[Library Ogre]

Assuming they do not have a physical component, yes; fear will, but Energy will have to go through them, first.

Forgive my using the "B" word... but wouldnt that throw balance way off? a single diabolist could take out an entire CS battalion and not break a sweat...[/quote]

In theory, yes. But he'd need to invest a lot in Area Affect wards (which I rule requires 1 HP), and the CS can retreat out of the area to let it quiet down. The diabolist, on the other hand, is one of those "Dog Boy Beacons" that trigger a lot of barking and peeing on the carpet*, needs time and materials to make his wards, and isn't good at immediate action.

*Completely random campaign idea: A bunch of Dog Boys chasing down the rats of LS Complex. Because of natural tendencies, the entire group is made up of ratting breeds of dogs. Like terriers... and chihuahuas.

[verdilak]

I dont charge 1 hp for AOE... The theory of backing off to let it cool down could work some times. but not for a good Diabolist. Example
5th lvl Diabolist
Inflict+ AOE+Sleep+Sleep+death+Death+Death+power

thats (5d6*3)*3 = 45D6 PER ROUND for 5 rounds strait to SDC/HP... if they fail one of the sleeps its game over. and for most people are likely to fail at least one... there is no retreating from that unless your very luck

And thats why SOT was full of BS.

[Library Ogre]

The problem is that, as one ward, there is only one save. So you set off this ward, and there's a redundant sleep in there. The three "death" may stack, but everyone who saves ignores it.

[Library Ogre]

The problem is that, as one ward, there is only one save. So you set off this ward, and there's a redundant sleep in there. The three "death" may stack, but everyone who saves ignores it.

I remeber their being some contention on wether there are individuals saves or one save. Either way... thats ritual magic baby 16 to save... even with the average bonus that more than 50% who enter die... and there could be half a dozen wards setup. and the diabolist left yesterday. so there is no prize at the end of the deadly tunnel of doom.

No, it is ward magic. It has a 14 to save, and that assumes that you can run multiple deaths off a single ward (which I am not sure of).

[Library Ogre]

You're doing this thing where you're adding information after people object. While he can do 54 per day, each is still a separate save, and will require a separate activation.

[Temporalmage]

ok...the skinny on wards.

alarm+inflict+AOE+sleep is one complete ward phrase
alarm+inflict+AOE+death is one complete ward phrase

a diabolist at 1st lvl can do one ward phrase per PE per day, at 3rd it 2 per PE, at 9th they get 3 per PE ect
diabolist in question has 27 PE... so he can make 54 per day
because he is 5th lvl he gets +1 to save required... and +1 for a magic quill. thats where i got the 16.... i miss remebered above.

the ward phrase can be set into ward sequnce that can :
a) go off one at a time each time the item or area is disturbed
b) all at once one save for each... beter pray

How much PPE is this gonna take?

How big an area does it cover?

Who leads the CS forces when they go "mage hunt'n"? Oh ya, dogboys that 90% of the time wouldn't go near an item that registered as magic.
Also CS troops are the most experianced anti-magic force on the planet. They ain't gonna bunch up for nothing. Heck, magic net can get up to 6 of em at once, so they already know better than to be too close togeather. At best your 54 ward sequence killed a couple of em, and irritated the rest enough that they call in an air-strike on your magic ass.

[AlanGunhouse]

The CS considers Dog Boys expendable, so unfortunately the DBPMD is fairly likely (Dog Boy Polish Mine Detector).

[Library Ogre]

Of course, they can also send forward a line of skelebots, if they have them. Dog Boys are expendable like a towel... skelebots are expendable like Kleenex.

[Striker]

I have seen energy sphere on a few posts recently and have a couple questions.

1. how does it work with channeling (both storing and retrieving)

2. os there a limit to how many you can have?

3. do they last longer on leyline or nexus point?

4. do they make a good topping for pasteries?

5.i guess the only reason to use diamonds and emeralds for storage is if you like BLing... or dont have the spell.

[Marcethus]

I have seen energy sphere on a few posts recently and have a couple questions.

1. how does it work with channeling (both storing and retrieving)

2. os there a limit to how many you can have?

3. do they last longer on leyline or nexus point?

4. do they make a good topping for pasteries?

5.i guess the only reason to use diamonds and emeralds for storage is if you like BLing... or dont have the spell.

I don't have my books at hand so I can't answer most of these. Save for number 5. The reason for Diamond and Emeralds is that they are both useable as PPE Batteries and can focus the spell in the desired Effect depending on how they are used in the specific TW Item.

[Talavar]

1. Energy sphere lets you store X amount of PPE per level for X days per level. Once stored, it acts effectively as a continuation of your base PPE (ie, no limit on how much you can draw per action or spell).

3. There's nothing excluding the normal 50% & 100% increase to duration on a ley line or nexus specifically, so why not.

5. To make PPE batteries using diamonds and emeralds you need either the talisman spell or the energy sphere spell, so there's the reason.

[sHaka]

If there's an imbalance, it's in the conventional weapon's favour as the benefits of such a missile are few, but not without practical some applications.

I disagree. If my body armor is worth 100 mdc, and a normal mini-missile hits for 1d4x10-1d6x10 (typically 20-30 MDC for frag, 30-40 MDC for plasma), then you're getting a significant bang for your buck if you can remove it all with one mini missile.

Additionally, removing all/part of body armor makes them vulnerable to environmental factors (heat, gas) and any SDC damage/booby traps that may be in place.

So "no", this definately fails with regards to balance as well as game mechanics.

I think this comes down to GMing styles. I still don't see an imbalance, sorry.

If a TW wants to spend the time, money and gems making a missile that removes his target's armour (with the exact effects still to be determined) in one hit as opposed to two or three (poss two with armour piercing), I wouldn't have problems.

If you destroyed the armour conventionally those environmental factors would still be an issue (especially now with the "last hit is absorbed by the last MDC point" rule).

Maybe I'm too lenient, but I don't think so. It would probably never come up as my players would probably spend their time and efforts on other issues.