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<This was actually a comment I made in the "Do Initiatives Take Time?" topic started by Killer Cyborg in the Rifts section. I wanted to post it here because it deals with all Palladium games.>

IF initiative slots take time then there would be some overlap of different character's actions.
When a character declares an action, in the majority of situations it is resolved immediately with no regard to the time it should take to complete or the number of actions/attacks per round the character may have.
I believe the only time time is important is during movement, but that makes it confusing sometimes.

HYPOTHETICAL #1 :
Two character fight.
Character-X, with 3 actions(5 seconds each)
Character-Y, with 5 actions(3 seconds)

-On "second one" of the round Character-Y wins initiative, declares an attack, and rolls to hit.
According to his actions per melee rate, it will take three seconds.
In GAME TIME does Character-Y actually attack on "second one" or "second three"? At the beginning of his action rate time, or at the end?

-Character-X declares a Dodge. It should take 5 seconds according to his actions per melee rate, right?
This must be resolved on "second one". Otherwise if Y's attack hits on "second three", X won't be able to dodge it two seconds later on "second five" (the last second in his actions per melee rate).

"second one" - Y is attacking. X is dodging.
"second two" - Y is attacking. X is dodging.
"second three" - Y is attacking. X is dodging.
"second four" - X is still dodging.
But wait. It only took Y three seconds to make that attack, so now he can do something else right?
Well, no. Because he already used his initiative. According to the rules as written, X gets the next initiative slot because it goes back and forth.
An initiative slot is not a time interval, it is a place holder.
"second five" - X is still dodging.
"second six" - X gets his first initiative slot.

HYPOTHETICAL #2 :
Character-Z has 5 actions(3 seconds each).
He has a special ability/attack that uses 3 of his actions per melee, so in theory it should take him 9 seconds.
When does that action resolve?
When it's declared?
"Second nine" of round time? What if another character is acting on second nine?
What if Character-Z wants to dodge during that nine seconds?
Or are the actions spent like tokens, and the character goes on his next normal initiative slot?

Actions like tokens sounds about right. Either way I hated the way they did initiatives in Rifts (the game perports a time-micromanagement feel, like with only having limited time to shoot down missiles, yet with actions it is like you're either moving at mach or through mollassis).

I use a self-designed system where initiative matters more than simply being a place-holder. Coupled with some modified rules (since simo-attacks screw them up severely, they had to change) combat now runs like a well-oiled machine with all new parts for me and my group.

The basics kinda go like this; initiative is more than a place-holder, it determines who acts first on any given action, and indicates whether or not people are acting simoltaineously (like if two people had actions at the same time, but one guy was on initiative 1 and the other was on 7 it wouldn't be simoltaineous, but both on initiative 7 would). It also allows for things like quickdraw to matter; if you didn't use it the first action, that is okay on your next action you can use the skill and get that boost to initiative.

Also, nice sig. VERY borken.

Go time your favorite fight scene in a movie. You will find that everything happens in milli-second frames, not long drawn out seconds. It does not take 3 seconds or 5 seconds to aim and fire a gun or swing a sword.

The only RPG that has done time-clicks is manner that is both playable and cinematic is Feng Shui. All action fans should own a copy. Exalted 2e has a tick-system that is similiar, but far more fidgety. Some fans rave about it, but many people find it byzantine and inaccessible.

GM prep time is better spent developing atmosphere and high action than worrying about mechanical quirks, especially with a borken game. The best timing method for Palladium (and 99% of other RPGs) is an initiative action takes exactly the amount of time to do one cool thing.

agreed

Spinachcat wrote:Go time your favorite fight scene in a movie. You will find that everything happens in milli-second frames, not long drawn out seconds. It does not take 3 seconds or 5 seconds to aim and fire a gun or swing a sword.

The only RPG that has done time-clicks is manner that is both playable and cinematic is Feng Shui. All action fans should own a copy.

agreed, but I somehow lost my copy

For most things, it's not that it takes you 3 seconds or 5 seconds to do it, it's that it takes that long to get in a position where you can do it again.

I came up with a funky optional init method for My RPG (maybe I'll finish it one of these days)

Each player has an APR stat, which is how many actions they have per 20 second round. I have 3 options groups can pick for rules to use
1. Simple: Roll init, everyone goes until they run out of attacks then repeat. It's easy but not realistic
2. A chart with attacks divided by seconds. More realistic, but too structured
3. Random. APR is not actually how many times you can act in 20 seconds, instead APR/20 = the probability you cna get a move off in a given second. So for each second, all players roll 1D20. If it's at or below their APR, then they can make a move. Initiative is equal to their init bonus - their roll. So if you have 6 APR and +3 init and you roll a 2, then you can move and your init is 1. The guy with 5 APR and +2 init who rolls a 4 can move and his init is -2. The guy with 6 APR who rolled a 7 is unable to go this second. The pro is you get a more dynamic combat narrative. The con is it can be a bit much for some people. But ironically, another pro is, you never have to worry about forgetting how many attacks you have left.

This could be applied to Pally if you multiple the attacks per melee by 4/3