inner workings

[Chad]

I think that you control the world and decide what gets damaged and what doesn't.
Sounds to me that you were fair and reasonable about the matter. Under the circumstances, I would have made the same ruling.
The players sound like they may be a little ticked off because they didn't think things through. They are the ones that decided to open fire with MD weapons instead of looking for another way to handle it.
And anytime you hit something with a MD weapon- it's going to FTSU someway, somehow. (Unless of course it's Phased, which I don't see here.)

IMO, you made the right call man. Stick by your guns.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

Did you tell them before they opened fire that their attacks would destroy the engine? If not, that's unfair. Even though the players didn't know that the engine was SDC material, their characters might have, and that would have influenced their characters' behavior. If anyone in the PC group is an Operator, a Techno-Wizard, or any other mechanically-inclined character, he should have known right off the bat that the engine was SDC materials. By the same token, didn't the ship have a crew that worked down in the engine room, or an on-board mechanic or something? Someone who could have warned the characters ahead of time "you have to stop those monsters from tearing up the engine, but dont fire your weapons down there."
It's unfair to expect the players to have information that you dont give them ahead of time. If you dont say "hey guys some of you suspect that it might not be such a good idea to shoot MD weapons down here", then they are going to assume that its okay to do so.

[Killer Cyborg]

the problem/ the players argue the engins are made of MDC materials as are the pipes and seachests the deamons damaged and they couldn't have done that kinda damage so easily, nor could the one players laser rifle damage frag an engine with a couple shots. I said yes they and it could cause the engines and inner workings of this ship arnt MDC but made of cheaper SDC materials. I don't think that the parts and wiring and inner components of the engine room encased in MDC materials and armored plating dont need to be made of or does it make sense that they are made of MDC materials. MDC is more expensive and harder to produce. Making a tank armor out of Titanium doesn't mean the engin needs to also be made of Titanium.
so what do you guys think?

This question comes up pretty often, and here's my view:
Internal components are also MDC.

Or, at least, they're effectively MDC.
Why?
Because otherwise you wouldn't need to use mega-damage attacks to take out MDC vehicles and armor, just a good high-speed impact.
If a person wearing power armor suffers 1d4 damage per 10 mph over 50 mph (RUE 356), then the internal components should too.
Which means that most vehicles could be taken out by a high-speed ram from a person in a jetpack or other flying hero. (Sure, they'd suffer damage too, but it'd likely be worth it; they can heal).

You could actually play the game this way, but it would make things needlessly complex because not only would every suit of power armor (and every vehicle) need to keep track of the normal MDC/SDC, they'd also have to keep track of the various SDCs for the various crucial components that keep the machine working.

(Of course, as of RUE the high-speed impact tables are Optional; you don't have to use them for anything. But I'm guessing that you're trying for some semblance of realism, so you'll probably keep them in your games.)

The thing is, just because internal components are MDC doesn't mean that the engines wouldn't have been destroyed in your scenario; they don't have to have a lot of MDC, and YOU get to choose how large of an area is covered.
Meaning that you don't have to give every little wire and hose 1 MDC, you can simply assign the engine as a whole 1 MDC if you like. Or 2 MDC. Or break it into a couple general locations, like "front section" and "rear section" or whatever.

[Temporalmage]

I think it's irrelevant on weither the engines are md or sdc. Take a modern car engine and pellet guns. The pellets can't really hurt the engine block, but a few hits in the wrong spot could spell serious trouble to some of the parts such as the computer chip. In older cars a pellet to the carburator could very well stop the car from running at all. And I don't know of anyone that drives around with a spare computer for their car, or a spare carburator. Now a good mechanic with a machine shop could effect repairs that might let the ship "limp" to shore, but it would seriously hamper the ships performance untill proper repairs are made.

On a differant note, the engines wouldn't be totally made of md in my opinion. Perhaps the main components such as engine block, pistons, etc. But smaller parts would probably be made of sdc for two reasons: Keep unneccesary cost down, and SDC is easier to work with when manufacturing small, delecate, percision items. It discusses this in the Splynn D-market book. Which is why a d-bee race makes fancy weapons out of SDC material, and then turns them md.

[tundro]

I know assumption is the mother of all !$#@up's, but it would have been my assumption that the engines would not have been mad of MDC material. I don't have any page numbers or other proof that that really is the case, but it makes sense that it would be majorly cost prohibitive to manufacture the multitude of parts found in an engine out of mdc material, especially when engines tend to be encased in MDC armored compartments to begin with (like a ships hull). I also agree with the fact that it wouldn't take piercing the engine block to wreak havoc with an engine..dropping something into the intake would be enough to cause problems.

[runebeo]

A group of Lasae can do a ton of damage in a very short time. I don't think most ships would have the engine extra armored and Lasae know to go for wiring and important systems. Each one can do 4D6 M.D. per melee I would think an engine wouldn't have more than 80 M.D.C. You would think some circles of protection for most large vehicles and ships would become standard, it would save so money.

[tobefrnk]

My reply is less about the MDC/SDC and more about the second idea here of "holding the players' hands". Depending on the experience of your player group (I'm talking how long they have played RPGs not the stats of their characters) then you shouldn't have to hold their hand. They should be well aware that their actions have consequences, that they are toting weapons capable of damaging, if not destroying tanks/mecha and that opening fire in their engine room is probably not the best choice. Seriously. Now, if this is their first time playing an RPG, you may have gone light on them but even then, isn't the fun of this the improv of the moment?

Oh, and just think now the flip side to this argument. Imagine this hypothetical, they are on a ship and they need to stop it so they go to the engine room and fire their guns on it only to have you say, "Hey guys, the engine is barely scratched because it's MDC material." I bet they would challenge that decision too.

I think you made perfect calls on all counts.

However, I guess there was one thing that you could have done that would have helped mitigate the grumbling. You could have mentioned on the first few missed shots that the engine was taking some damage. Then the PCs may have altered their actions before any serious damage occurred to the engine. Of course, the "realistic" GM in me would have to take into account the PCs' emotional state of the encounter. If they are all "frenzied" and "panicked", I'd have them role to see if they notice the damage they are causing (increasing their chance of noticing as more and more damage is done).

[Dog_O_War]

the problem/ the players argue the engins are made of MDC materials as are the pipes and seachests the deamons damaged and they couldn't have done that kinda damage so easily, nor could the one players laser rifle damage frag an engine with a couple shots. I said yes they and it could cause the engines and inner workings of this ship arnt MDC but made of cheaper SDC materials.

You gave them the only answer they needed right here (bolded).

I don't think that the parts and wiring and inner components of the engine room encased in MDC materials and armored plating dont need to be made of or does it make sense that they are made of MDC materials.

This is where you left your solid answer melt under PC heat. You mustn't think as a GM; you must know. You also can't justify answers to players with reason; what you see as reasonable and what I see as reasonable will never be the same (within reason[/pun]).

MDC is more expensive and harder to produce. Making a tank armor out of Titanium doesn't mean the engin needs to also be made of Titanium.

...And you know this how? <-----this question here is a reason why elaboration is often best kept at a minimum. I mean there could be reasons on why it should, and these reasons are what destroys credibility. Leave nothing to discredit and you will be fine.

so what do you guys think?

I think that you should let the players have their way this time, but be more adamant in the future. Remember, you have to be in control of the game; not to the point where you make the player's decisions for them but to the point where they know that all engines are SDC, they know MD lasers will scythe through them, and they know that you are in control of the game.

But that is just one guys' opinion.

[ShadowLogan]

I think this is one of those gray areas surrounding S.D.C/M.D.C values. Just what is the value supposed to represent.

Is it just the physical punishment it can take? Or does it include electro-mechanical readiness also? Once an Robot/Power Armor takes enough damage you are supposed to roll on a chart that affects electro-mechanical systems of the vehicle. Does it include some other modifer that inflates/deflates the end value? I think M.D.C/S.D.C is a combination of all these factors.

There was an example in one of the earlier Main RPGs when dealing with S.D.C. and attacking a door. Even if the SDC wasn't completely depleted damage would still be evident in the door.

Applying the above, even if the Engine was M.D.C any damage to it could still cause mechanical failure without depleating it to zero.

The Demons can successfully attack S.D.C. structures without destroying them by use of restrained punches.