Return from the Grave

[csbioborg]

I had a question about the necromancy spell by that name

It lists the vunerablities of the new vampire which are different from a regular vamp. It dosen't list sunlight or runing water as causing damage. Also it says hit points are doubled. What happens if the necromancer was a mdc creature pior to the casting of the spell.

[runebeo]

He's a S.D.C. being now read the undead section in Dark Conversions.

[drewkitty ~..~]

He's a S.D.C. being now read the undead section in Dark Conversions.

No, it would not be SDC. It would have only the double HP. As for MDC critteres, if the critter doesn't have a listing of what their HP/SDC would be on a SDC world (the DBees of North America has lots of listings of most critter's HP/SDC in their (M/S)DC section) then you need to look up the MDC to hp/sdc convertion notes in the RCB1 or RCB1r.

[runebeo]

Sorry you are correct.

[csbioborg]

what about the first part of my question? Is he immune to running water?

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. Okay, maybe I'm missing something, but I just checked Mystic Russia (first printing) and Book of Magic (first printing) and neither say Hit Points are doubled. Actually, what both say is that "Hit points are equal to twice the amount of the Necromancer's base P.P.E. at the time of his death." I'll note, double the base P.P.E. (mind you, this is after spending 3 P.P.E. permanently each night of the full moon), not double his previous hit points. Like vampires, MDC is irrelevant due to their nigh invulnerability. Anything that hurts them does Hit Point damage. If it makes you feel better to call it MDC to HP and anything that hurts them (even if normally a SDC weapon) does MDC damage then I guess that's fine as it has no real bearing on anything (MDC ... HP ... either way anything the character is vulnerable to damages the stat, what it's called isn't very important). Also note, no supernatural creatures or creatures of magic (just for a note in case it was missed).

Now, with that said, it doesn't comment on running water or sunlight. It does make a few comments on the transformation making them "equal to a Master Vampire" and right before the vulnerabilities it mentions "Summary of natural Vampire combat abilities." Now, this could very well mean that basically treat them like a vampire with only the differences mentioned. Using that logic, I would say they are vulnerable, they just didn't list everything due to it being a quick summary. This could also be supported by the fact the ritual always takes place during the "evening" and it being a "nightly ritual." The fact it's conducted at night could help support a creature of night with an aversion to the sun. Though I'll note, this is only conjecture (and showing the logic to support it).

Personally, I would say that they are different. Not completely, but in certain regards such as this. I'd let them avoid the vulnerability to the sun and to water. Necromancers who can perform this ritual (level 14 and takes a full year! And you can't even miss a single night) should be extremely rare (in my opinion). To me, this would grant them some extra leeway. Also, I just think it would be interesting to give some variety and potentially catch players off guard. Players: "All right, the sun's coming up. Made it." Vampire: *Looks at the sun and shrugs.* "Um ... you were saying?" Players: "Ah slag." It could be just as easily argued that the vulnerabilities were listed for a good reason, because those are the only ones that apply (not the others).

The rules don't really say clearly, and I think there is a case for either way. My personal opinion, I think the book meant to make them equivalent to a vampire (so same vulnerabilities). That's just the feel I get when I read it. But personally, I like making them different (and not having the immunities). In the end, it'll probably be a GM call. Hopefully that helped. I felt the HP issue deserved addressing (since no one else mentioned it), and the matter of vulnerabilities ... well, didn't really answer either way. The best I could do is say what is mentioned and tell you my opinions on the matter. Anyways, take good care and have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys.

[runebeo]

what about the first part of my question? Is he immune to running water?

I think since he's a Vampire water and sunlight now hurt him.

[csbioborg]

I thought it would be cool to introduce a race of vampires unbeholden to a AI. The spell gives him all the powers so he can create secondarys correct me if I'm wrong. While overall I like rifts vamps I never like the whole death by squirt gun thing. Its a little strange they live of blood which is mostly water and are harmed by slighly more pure water imo. Holy water is a different story

I think if there is no canon I'll go with vunerable to sunlight and no to runing water and earth requiremt.


The one time this spell has been used was in a modified transformation of a CS trooper that got turned fighting the good fight for humanity. It was part of the plot some years ago and as a deux machina way out of him dying when we got together a CS team to destroy the AI that created him he was changed by the spell into a master of the Reanimator in SLynn market. My bioborg is on good terms do to his time in Atlantis.

[runebeo]

Ya I like the idea of hot vampire chicks seducing me in a hot tub from the one X-Files episode and having a vampire gang kick the crap out of you in the rain is always fun. Not many vampire movies use the water weakness, but it helps in preventing them from over running the Earth I guess.

[Northern Ranger]

In what is to date the longest campaign I have ever run, one of the primary villains was a Master Vampire created by this spell. In life, he was of course a powerful necromancer and in death became even more powerful. (It made sense to me that a practitioner of death magic would inherently have a deeper understanding of it when he himself became undead. Therefore, I made him an uber-powerful death mage.) He was responsible for the creation of some new and rather insidious spells and caused the players no end of hurt.

Now, in my game, this character (Baron Viktor Vonderlicht by name) was not affected by running water, but was affected by sunlight. However, one of the first spells he created was a spell called shield from light, that allowed vampires and other undead affected by sunlight to walk during the day. However, their powers, bonuses and attacks were all diminished by half. I also stated that because the spell was not used while Vik was actually on his native soil, the stipulation about sleeping on their native soil did not apply. (In my game, he was the lord of his own Island Kingdom which existed simultaneously in two different dimensions, called Shadowveil.)

I've had another, more recent campaign, that I called Vampire Wars. (Can you tell I like the undead?) In this one, a master vampire who's link to his AI had been severed was awakened from a centuries long sleep. He was so old, and so powerful, that he was able to challenge Vald Tegor for the title of Vampire God. It fell to the characters to stop this guy, whose name was Ladmar Necros. He had a mage create a spell that cast a cloud which blocked out the sun across the mainland of the Palladium World, so that his minions could walk the earth day and night and not suffer any negatives. The only place mortals were safe was on the outlying islands, like Byzantium and the Isle of the Cyclops. This guy wound up getting taken down by my wifes' archer, who fired a specially crafted arrow designed to kill any vampire pretty much instantly. Both of these baddies are among the more powerful and memorable of my villains and are examples of how both types of vampire can be used and played. I love the vamps and use them often in my games. Too often, in fact. My players are getting wise to my methods and almost instinctively outfit their characters for vampire combat. (I'll have to come up with another alteration to throw at them!)

Hope you enjoyed this and that it helps you with your campaign. Good luck, and let me know if I can help.

[runebeo]

The undeath curse in one of Land of the damned books is great for creating vampires and other undead that can be cured by a remove curse spell and players that really want to try out the vampire R.C.C. without the vampire intelligence link part. The best part of the curse is if they die they are reborn as the real undead this time and no cure is possible.