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Why use Power Punch
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:16 pm
by mobuttu
I'm not really good at statistics, but it apparently seems that using Power Punch it's not a very useful option. Considering it has twice as damage than a single punch but spends to melee actions (that can already do that damage). So, what advantages do you get from a Power Punch? I can only see a situation when it's worth it: surprise attack.
Can anyone confirm my feelings about that? Do you envision any other situation that a Power Punch is better than two single punches? (besides Robotics/Bionics/whatever PS).
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:19 pm
by Nekira Sudacne
mobuttu wrote:I'm not really good at statistics, but it apparently seems that using Power Punch it's not a very useful option. Considering it has twice as damage than a single punch but spends to melee actions (that can already do that damage). So, what advantages do you get from a Power Punch? I can only see a situation when it's worth it: surprise attack.
Can anyone confirm my feelings about that? Do you envision any other situation that a Power Punch is better than two single punches? (besides Robotics/Bionics/whatever PS).
It lets you deal the damage faster, say to an enemy that's trying to run away. Or in any point where time is of the essence.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:27 pm
by Killer Cyborg
Nekira Sudacne wrote:mobuttu wrote:I'm not really good at statistics, but it apparently seems that using Power Punch it's not a very useful option. Considering it has twice as damage than a single punch but spends to melee actions (that can already do that damage). So, what advantages do you get from a Power Punch? I can only see a situation when it's worth it: surprise attack.
Can anyone confirm my feelings about that? Do you envision any other situation that a Power Punch is better than two single punches? (besides Robotics/Bionics/whatever PS).
It lets you deal the damage faster, say to an enemy that's trying to run away. Or in any point where time is of the essence.
That depends on how you play it.
Some people play that a Power Punch only takes one attack time-wise, even though it takes up two actions.
Some people play that a Power Punch only actually hits on the second attack time-wise, that the first action is spent winding up.
In which case it's a lot slower than a normal punch.
I forget which, if either, is canon.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:00 am
by mobuttu
Killer Cyborg wrote:That depends on how you play it.
Some people play that a Power Punch only takes one attack time-wise, even though it takes up two actions.
Some people play that a Power Punch only actually hits on the second attack time-wise, that the first action is spent winding up.
In which case it's a lot slower than a normal punch.
I play as in the second option. Then there isn't that speed advantage...so again, why use it?
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:24 am
by Killer Cyborg
mobuttu wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:That depends on how you play it.
Some people play that a Power Punch only takes one attack time-wise, even though it takes up two actions.
Some people play that a Power Punch only actually hits on the second attack time-wise, that the first action is spent winding up.
In which case it's a lot slower than a normal punch.
I play as in the second option. Then there isn't that speed advantage...so again, why use it?
No reason that I can think of.
Which is why I tend to see no reason to
play it that way.
If there are two interpretations of an ability/maneuver/power/whatever, and one interpretation renders the action useless, why choose to interpret things that way?
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:49 pm
by mobuttu
Killer Cyborg wrote:If there are two interpretations of an ability/maneuver/power/whatever, and one interpretation renders the action useless, why choose to interpret things that way?
Hahahaha. Good question. I dunno, It made more sense to me:
"You take a deep breath, flex those muscles and then Power Punch your enemy..."
Besides, there are uses for Power Punch specifically for augmented/tobotics/bionics PS. But I liked to know its usefulness for a the average Doe.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:24 am
by Dog_O_War
The power-punch is a dumb idea, as no one "winds-up" to offer a punch that actually has a significantly more devistating effect.
What they could've done instead is offer a jab; a punch you can use multiple times per attack. This is more in-line with the melee round as you'll notice it doesn't take 15 seconds for the average guy to punch a heavy-bag. He can get in more punches during that time, and the rules should've reflected that instead of pulling a Kirk.
"Look out for his hammer-fist attack (aka, "the Kirk") it hits twice as hard!"
Maybe the power-punch was to represent a full-torsion punch, but again it shouldn't take 15 seconds for the average guy to throw two of them.
Also, for the jab; maybe some of you have seen videos of a certian martial artist in action? I have, and the camera recording him literally did not have the frame-capture rate to video his strikes in-motion. it looked like his fists were skipping due to bad video (which is what I thought at first) but then I noticed that nothing else was.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:39 am
by The Beast
Dog_O_War wrote:Also, for the jab; maybe some of you have seen videos of a certian martial artist in action? I have, and the camera recording him literally did not have the frame-capture rate to video his strikes in-motion. it looked like his fists were skipping due to bad video (which is what I thought at first) but then I noticed that nothing else was.
Bruce Lee had this problem when he first started acting.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 am
by AlanGunhouse
Well, some attackers resist damage, especially in HU. A Power punch can do enough damage that a character who resists the first 25 points pf physical damage might ignore.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:00 am
by mobuttu
AlanGunhouse wrote:Well, some attackers resist damage, especially in HU. A Power punch can do enough damage that a character who resists the first 25 points pf physical damage might ignore.
Mmmm, that's a good one...
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:06 pm
by Dog_O_War
AlanGunhouse wrote:Well, some attackers resist damage, especially in HU. A Power punch can do enough damage that a character who resists the first 25 points pf physical damage might ignore.
So one minor power is the reason power-punch was created?
Heh, I suppose a bad reason is better than no reason.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:22 pm
by AlanGunhouse
Actually, I believe Power Punch (the maneuver) was created for the Physical Training character as a Chi Focus effect that can damage characters normally invulnerable. What else have been done with it since then has little to do with the original concept. Still, claming it as existing because of the minor power at least gives other characters a reason why they might have it...and as was said better a poor reason than no reason.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:05 pm
by Mouser13
mobuttu wrote:AlanGunhouse wrote:Well, some attackers resist damage, especially in HU. A Power punch can do enough damage that a character who resists the first 25 points pf physical damage might ignore.
Mmmm, that's a good one...
Is their a example of this that seems like DnD to me I don't know of a single mob that has DR?
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:21 pm
by AlanGunhouse
It is a super power in PU 1 called Impact Resistance. I am not sure it is found anywhere else.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:59 pm
by Dog_O_War
McBane wrote:I am in combat with 6 attacks per round as does my opponent and statistically we are evenly matched. He attacks before I do and as long as he hits I am 1 hit behind him. If I attack with a power punch on my 5th attack in this case I could finish him before his 6th attack. This would be practical in any situation where you think 1 more hit and I am going to drop.
This is why you don't wait the 1st round. If you look at it as a hay maker you can say the follow through of the punch takes longer to reset and attack again thus using 2 attacks.
He simultaineous-attacks you and finishes you.
Power-punch is just plain disadvantageous to use (except in the case of that one power, as noted above by AlanGunhouse). You roll a miss or you get parried and it's like you failed to hit twice. Meanwhile, it is statistically more advantageous to spam attacks (most notably for the increased chance at a critical).
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:55 am
by Dog_O_War
McBane wrote:Dog_O_War wrote:McBane wrote:I am in combat with 6 attacks per round as does my opponent and statistically we are evenly matched. He attacks before I do and as long as he hits I am 1 hit behind him. If I attack with a power punch on my 5th attack in this case I could finish him before his 6th attack. This would be practical in any situation where you think 1 more hit and I am going to drop.
This is why you don't wait the 1st round. If you look at it as a hay maker you can say the follow through of the punch takes longer to reset and attack again thus using 2 attacks.
He simultaineous-attacks you and finishes you.
Power-punch is just plain disadvantageous to use (except in the case of that one power, as noted above by AlanGunhouse). You roll a miss or you get parried and it's like you failed to hit twice. Meanwhile, it is statistically more advantageous to spam attacks (most notably for the increased chance at a critical).
How would his 6th action be simultaineous with my 5th ?
Ask the creator of the game; I don't know how it can be either, only that it is allowed.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:25 pm
by Prysus
Greetings and Salutations. A thought came to me a couple days after this post started, but then I forgot about it, and I haven't checked the boards in a while. Anyways, unless it's been mentioned and I missed it, even using the "one to charge and attacks the second" rule I can see it having an advantage (though limited). I'm thinking of situations when, for example, you're fighting an opponent who can fly and swoops in for an attack (meaning would have to be melee, not just ranged), or someone that is really fast. They can move in and out of attack range at their will, and sometimes there is not much you can do but stand there and wait. However, if you get only one chance to hit, then you want to make it count. Yes, you would have to time it out (prepare while they're moving in, then attack when they're in range), but if the person is using hit and run tactics the character probably has the chance to get the timing down. If you're in a battle where everyone is fighting with ranged weapons, then power punch will be fairly meaningless anyways. Random thought, hope it helps. Farewell and safe journeys to all.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:38 am
by Dog_O_War
Prysus wrote:Greetings and Salutations. A thought came to me a couple days after this post started, but then I forgot about it, and I haven't checked the boards in a while. Anyways, unless it's been mentioned and I missed it, even using the "one to charge and attacks the second" rule I can see it having an advantage (though limited). I'm thinking of situations when, for example, you're fighting an opponent who can fly and swoops in for an attack (meaning would have to be melee, not just ranged), or someone that is really fast. They can move in and out of attack range at their will, and sometimes there is not much you can do but stand there and wait. However, if you get only one chance to hit, then you want to make it count. Yes, you would have to time it out (prepare while they're moving in, then attack when they're in range), but if the person is using hit and run tactics the character probably has the chance to get the timing down. If you're in a battle where everyone is fighting with ranged weapons, then power punch will be fairly meaningless anyways. Random thought, hope it helps. Farewell and safe journeys to all.
Under the current set-up of the rules though, even this is pointless.
Every attack they make "swooping in" or moving in or whatever can be simultaineous attacked. If they remain at range, then you aren't being hit. If they move in, then you can simultaineous attack them and you are back to square one, where spamming attacks makes for better survivability.
I have come up with a reason to use power-punch though, and that is
because you've changed the mechanics on how it works.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:43 pm
by AlanGunhouse
True, Role playing should trump roll playing when possible.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:53 am
by Dog_O_War
Bloodspray wrote:Dog_O_War wrote:I have come up with a reason to use power-punch though, and that is because you've changed the mechanics on how it works.
Or.... you have a GM that is actually good and encourages Role Playing over Roll Playing.
Is it considered being a "good" GM by changing the way the world works so that one mechanic is favored over another?
I fail to see how allowing one type of attack to dominate over the default is "good GMing" or "good role-playing". I mean, when is a mechanical decision ever "good role-playing"?
Bloodspray wrote:One time in CP, the PCs were trying to get information out of a Ripperdoc, and the 'action' (non-combat) was going great. The didn't stop to say "I'm going to intimidate him" and make a roll. They simply grabbed his own instruments and put them against sensitive areas of his body and said what their characters said to him. Per the rules, I should have had a counter roll to determine success, but I didnn't, I simply took the entire 'scene' that had taken place up to this point into account, as well as the situation the Ripperdoc was in, summed up a target difficulty real quick, rolled, and he failed (as I figured he would) and proceeded on with the story.
You're a true hero.
Bloodspray wrote:May sound totally unrealted but the point is, it's not always about rules, dice, and numbers. Sometimes style is it's own reward. (and a good GM will implement the effects of it seamlessly on the fly)
Sometimes not jacking your players with an in-game rules change is the better part of valor. That part being discression. Versimilitude and consistency matter more than "coolness". It is that they must live and act in a pho-world and that world must have constants.
The problem being is that you are creating another mechanical flaw in the game to allow the current one to have a use. This is the embodiment of the saying, "
two wrongs don't make a right".
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:07 pm
by Dog_O_War
rearnakedchoke wrote:Dog you say we change it on the fly, but I say we make the game have more flavor by giving the power punch a reason for being in the game. Doesn't sound like a wrong to me. But to each his own.
I suppose, but I dislike temporary solutions to on-going problems. That said, I suppose you have to take what you can get, right?
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:38 am
by demos606
mobuttu wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:That depends on how you play it.
Some people play that a Power Punch only takes one attack time-wise, even though it takes up two actions.
Some people play that a Power Punch only actually hits on the second attack time-wise, that the first action is spent winding up.
In which case it's a lot slower than a normal punch.
I play as in the second option. Then there isn't that speed advantage...so again, why use it?
At the proper strength levels a power punch can deal megadamage where no number of regular punches at that strength ever will.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:09 pm
by Dog_O_War
demos606 wrote:mobuttu wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:That depends on how you play it.
Some people play that a Power Punch only takes one attack time-wise, even though it takes up two actions.
Some people play that a Power Punch only actually hits on the second attack time-wise, that the first action is spent winding up.
In which case it's a lot slower than a normal punch.
I play as in the second option. Then there isn't that speed advantage...so again, why use it?
At the proper strength levels a power punch can deal megadamage where no number of regular punches at that strength ever will.
And this matters when?
Super-MD lock?
A megacrete wall?
Are you up against the
One-Mega-Damage Bandit?
Because any opponent you combat that can take mega-damage tends to
not care about one point of the stuff.
macksting wrote:All this said and done, though, using a power punch as your simultaneous attack drastically decreases the chance of it failing and may really mess with your opponent's strategies.
That's a problem with another aspect of the game. And that will only work once, as after that your opponent tends to wait for you to make the mechanical error of
going first - which is retarded.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:41 pm
by Killer Cyborg
Dog_O_War wrote:macksting wrote:All this said and done, though, using a power punch as your simultaneous attack drastically decreases the chance of it failing and may really mess with your opponent's strategies.
That's a problem with another aspect of the game. And that will only work once, as after that your opponent tends to wait for you to make the mechanical error of
going first - which is retarded.
1. The rules are unclear about using attacks that take more than one action (time-wise) for a simo-attack, so it may not be possible (depending on how power punch works).
2. Whether or not it's smart to use a simo-attack is entirely dependent on the specifics of the situation you're in.
3. There are no official rules for holding action, so waiting is not an official option.
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:33 am
by Dog_O_War
Killer Cyborg wrote:Dog_O_War wrote:macksting wrote:All this said and done, though, using a power punch as your simultaneous attack drastically decreases the chance of it failing and may really mess with your opponent's strategies.
That's a problem with another aspect of the game. And that will only work once, as after that your opponent tends to wait for you to make the mechanical error of
going first - which is retarded.
1. The rules are unclear about using attacks that take more than one action (time-wise) for a simo-attack, so it may not be possible (depending on how power punch works).
2. Whether or not it's smart to use a simo-attack is entirely dependent on the specifics of the situation you're in.
3. There are no official rules for holding action, so waiting is not an official option.
And your stance on Power Punch?
Re: Why use Power Punch
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:55 pm
by Killer Cyborg
Dog_O_War wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:Dog_O_War wrote:macksting wrote:All this said and done, though, using a power punch as your simultaneous attack drastically decreases the chance of it failing and may really mess with your opponent's strategies.
That's a problem with another aspect of the game. And that will only work once, as after that your opponent tends to wait for you to make the mechanical error of
going first - which is retarded.
1. The rules are unclear about using attacks that take more than one action (time-wise) for a simo-attack, so it may not be possible (depending on how power punch works).
2. Whether or not it's smart to use a simo-attack is entirely dependent on the specifics of the situation you're in.
3. There are no official rules for holding action, so waiting is not an official option.
And your stance on Power Punch?
Personally?
Whatever the rules ARE, I always allowed it to take one action time-wise at the cost of two actions.
I also allowed dodges to come off of the tail end of attacks, instead of taking the very next attack.
It makes combat go faster, and it makes as much sense (or more) as any other way.
So in my games, nobody could ever interrupt a power attack, since they're just as fast as any other attack, and they work just as well for simo-attacks as anything else.