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A good stint into this would be using the 13 Deadly Scrolls found in Rifter #13. it is a fantastic way to bring about all sorts of endings/beginings to a new life.....

I think the Monks are a quaint OOC at best. The idea that magic use alone can summon the Old Ones is a bit much, as magic was used to lock them away, directed magic with a purpose. Certainly intentionally used magic designed to free them could do so, but that type of power is not easily developed, or available. Considering it was a group of powerful gods and magic users that locked them away, it almost necessitates using a similar group to undo it, something I am sure the still living gods and magic users would block. That's why I think the Monk OCC members labor under a false pretense and delusion, because labelling all magic evil doesn't even address the intent. Magic is a tool, like a sword, which can be used to harm or protect. It's the intent that creates the alignment, and that's the NPCs' or players' alignment. Magic in and of itself normally is neutral. It is what it is. But I do think certain magical effects can have alignment, such as spells that open portals to realms of evil, or conversely that have pleasing use, such as healing. I don't think that raising up an undead soldier is evil of itself, if used properly it can be quite positive, particularly if after the time for use has passed, the soldier is destroyed by its' creator. It's all in how you use magic. Because if magic IS evil, then even the knowledge is evil, so all Monk Scholars are also evil.

Though the Monk might have knowledge of magic, he'll never part with it, even to save lives, so what's the point of having them around except for comedy relief?

Human shields?

I always took it as a fallacy the higher ups kept going to keep the rank and file, and the peasant masses in line. If the people were trying to learn magic it would dilute the powers that be in the clergy, royal houses, and so on. By keeping people ignorant you keep power. If you are familiar with Battletech think of it like Comstar controlling knowledge, and technology.

Another way of looking at it is that the monks put all the blame on magic in any form as a sort of scapegoat. "We weren't responsible for the age of destruction, it was those evil magic using elves," and so on.

That is just how I remembered it. That being said, it has been awhile, and I don't have the book in front of me.

Hey, Rockjock. Been a while since I've seen you on the boards!

As to the Monk Scholar, I had a player once that played one and his character actually discovered the falsehoods that were propogated by his OCC. When he tried to make the truth public he was ostracized from his order and banished from his home. Disillusioned by this, he took up the mantle of Wizard, already having garnered much of the necessary knowledge. However, the power he was soon wielding did in fact corrupt him and he turned on his order, nearly decimating it before his fellow party members defeated and eventually killed him. Ironically, in a way, he had proven his order correct in their misguided beliefs. We all know that it wasn't the magic that corrupted him, but the events in his life and how he chose to respond to them. But still, if you look at it from the order's perspective... it's pretty daunting evidence!

I had a bad car wreck and am slowly getting back into the swing of things.

RockJock wrote:I had a bad car wreck and am slowly getting back into the swing of things.

Good to have you back. Best of luck.

Apollo wrote:The Monk Scholars are seekers and keepers of knowledge. However, not all of their knowledge is accurate. Their belief that magic is inherently evil is proven wrong on page 10 of Old Ones. Their belief that the generic use of magic can lead to the eventual awakening of the Old Ones seems far-fetched, which is why I was hoping it was proven right or wrong somewhere else in the books. Are we left on our own to scoff at it as a ridiculous notion, or do the books ever support or contradict it?

I suppose this is why it's a 'role' playing game, eh?

Probitas wrote:

Apollo wrote:The Monk Scholars are seekers and keepers of knowledge. However, not all of their knowledge is accurate. Their belief that magic is inherently evil is proven wrong on page 10 of Old Ones. Their belief that the generic use of magic can lead to the eventual awakening of the Old Ones seems far-fetched, which is why I was hoping it was proven right or wrong somewhere else in the books. Are we left on our own to scoff at it as a ridiculous notion, or do the books ever support or contradict it?

I suppose this is why it's a 'role' playing game, eh?

There's actually a fair amount of information about it in Mysteries of Magic... not that that information helps you.

Mark Hall wrote:

Probitas wrote:

Apollo wrote:The Monk Scholars are seekers and keepers of knowledge. However, not all of their knowledge is accurate. Their belief that magic is inherently evil is proven wrong on page 10 of Old Ones. Their belief that the generic use of magic can lead to the eventual awakening of the Old Ones seems far-fetched, which is why I was hoping it was proven right or wrong somewhere else in the books. Are we left on our own to scoff at it as a ridiculous notion, or do the books ever support or contradict it?

I suppose this is why it's a 'role' playing game, eh?

There's actually a fair amount of information about it in Mysteries of Magic... not that that information helps you.

Damnit man!!!!!!

Northern Ranger wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Probitas wrote:

Apollo wrote:The Monk Scholars are seekers and keepers of knowledge. However, not all of their knowledge is accurate. Their belief that magic is inherently evil is proven wrong on page 10 of Old Ones. Their belief that the generic use of magic can lead to the eventual awakening of the Old Ones seems far-fetched, which is why I was hoping it was proven right or wrong somewhere else in the books. Are we left on our own to scoff at it as a ridiculous notion, or do the books ever support or contradict it?

I suppose this is why it's a 'role' playing game, eh?

There's actually a fair amount of information about it in Mysteries of Magic... not that that information helps you.

Damnit man!!!!!!

My work here is done.

You are an evil one Mark

My post was just to point out that if you logically follow their doctrine, it makes no sense, so you can role play it any way you wish. I suppose I should have been more direct. It might be fun to have a wizard attempting to point out the fallacy that magic is evil so therefore all magic knowledge is evil, making scholars that seek it out also evil, essentially telling them 'you're Abbot isn't wearing any clothes.'

And yeah, nasty bit of chum tossing their Mark. I'll give that a "We're going to need a bigger boat' award.