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I've contemplated going with a WH40K style armor save for SDC armor. Strike and dodge/parry are handled, then if the parry/dodge is unsuccessful, the defender rolls a d20, under AR damages the armor and over damages the wearer.

Misfit KotLD wrote:I've contemplated going with a WH40K style armor save for SDC armor. Strike and dodge/parry are handled, then if the parry/dodge is unsuccessful, the defender rolls a d20, under AR damages the armor and over damages the wearer.

So defender gets two chances avoid taking HP/SDC damage?

Natasha wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:I've contemplated going with a WH40K style armor save for SDC armor. Strike and dodge/parry are handled, then if the parry/dodge is unsuccessful, the defender rolls a d20, under AR damages the armor and over damages the wearer.

So defender gets two chances avoid taking HP/SDC damage?

No, the defender gets a chance to avoid damage then a chance to have his armor save his bacon.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Natasha wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:I've contemplated going with a WH40K style armor save for SDC armor. Strike and dodge/parry are handled, then if the parry/dodge is unsuccessful, the defender rolls a d20, under AR damages the armor and over damages the wearer.

So defender gets two chances avoid taking HP/SDC damage?

No, the defender gets a chance to avoid damage then a chance to have his armor save his bacon.

That looks like two chances to me.

Natasha wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Natasha wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:I've contemplated going with a WH40K style armor save for SDC armor. Strike and dodge/parry are handled, then if the parry/dodge is unsuccessful, the defender rolls a d20, under AR damages the armor and over damages the wearer.

So defender gets two chances avoid taking HP/SDC damage?

No, the defender gets a chance to avoid damage then a chance to have his armor save his bacon.

That looks like two chances to me.

What's a character wearing armor for? In case he does get hit. With the bonuses I've seen in HU, if the attack beat the defense (parry or dodge) then it beats the AR too. Armor is then pointless.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Natasha wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Natasha wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:I've contemplated going with a WH40K style armor save for SDC armor. Strike and dodge/parry are handled, then if the parry/dodge is unsuccessful, the defender rolls a d20, under AR damages the armor and over damages the wearer.

So defender gets two chances avoid taking HP/SDC damage?

No, the defender gets a chance to avoid damage then a chance to have his armor save his bacon.

That looks like two chances to me.

What's a character wearing armor for? In case he does get hit. With the bonuses I've seen in HU, if the attack beat the defense (parry or dodge) then it beats the AR too. Armor is then pointless.

Sometimes armour is useless. Sometimes you're the pigeon. Sometimes you're the statue.

Natasha wrote:Sometimes armour is useless. Sometimes you're the pigeon. Sometimes you're the statue.

Ok...

Natasha wrote:Sometimes armour is useless. Sometimes you're the pigeon. Sometimes you're the statue.

It is two chances at defense and it is a matter of playstyle - what you're saying is don't take a knife to a tank fight and that's certainly fair to say, but beefing up the knife isn't inherently wrong, it's just outside your playstyle.

One more reason I don't like superhero games, I guess.

sasha wrote:

Natasha wrote:Sometimes armour is useless. Sometimes you're the pigeon. Sometimes you're the statue.

It is two chances at defense and it is a matter of playstyle - what you're saying is don't take a knife to a tank fight and that's certainly fair to say, but beefing up the knife isn't inherently wrong, it's just outside your playstyle.

I don't see where I'm beefing up the knife.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

sasha wrote:

Natasha wrote:Sometimes armour is useless. Sometimes you're the pigeon. Sometimes you're the statue.

It is two chances at defense and it is a matter of playstyle - what you're saying is don't take a knife to a tank fight and that's certainly fair to say, but beefing up the knife isn't inherently wrong, it's just outside your playstyle.

I don't see where I'm beefing up the knife.

It's a mechanical analogy not a 1-to-1 analogy.

sasha wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:

sasha wrote:

Natasha wrote:Sometimes armour is useless. Sometimes you're the pigeon. Sometimes you're the statue.

It is two chances at defense and it is a matter of playstyle - what you're saying is don't take a knife to a tank fight and that's certainly fair to say, but beefing up the knife isn't inherently wrong, it's just outside your playstyle.

I don't see where I'm beefing up the knife.

It's a mechanical analogy not a 1-to-1 analogy.

Yes. And armor is just as good or useless as it's supposed to be.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

sasha wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:

sasha wrote:

Natasha wrote:Sometimes armour is useless. Sometimes you're the pigeon. Sometimes you're the statue.

It is two chances at defense and it is a matter of playstyle - what you're saying is don't take a knife to a tank fight and that's certainly fair to say, but beefing up the knife isn't inherently wrong, it's just outside your playstyle.

I don't see where I'm beefing up the knife.

It's a mechanical analogy not a 1-to-1 analogy.

Yes. And armor is just as good or useless as it's supposed to be.

Why are you frustrated?

Natasha wrote:Why are you frustrated?

I already got what he was saying.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Natasha wrote:Why are you frustrated?

I already got what he was saying.

He was explaining to me seems.

Natasha wrote:Sometimes you're the statue.

Not me. I'd kill the pigeon before it could poop on me.

So AR:10 is a 4+ armour save

AR:13 would be a 3+ armour save.

and AR:17 would be a 2+ armour save.



I see two problems with this system - one, you are rolling an extra die for every hit of every combat. Combat in palladium games already lasts too long and now there is an extra mechanic to aggrivate the system.

Two, it takes away from a certain type of character - the skilled character. Now even if I make that called shot to the head I have to roll against armour to see if I stike the character or the armour still? That seems rather anti-climatic and hindering to me.

Dog_O_War wrote:So AR:10 is a 4+ armour save

AR:13 would be a 3+ armour save.

and AR:17 would be a 2+ armour save.



I see two problems with this system - one, you are rolling an extra die for every hit of every combat. Combat in palladium games already lasts too long and now there is an extra mechanic to aggrivate the system.

Two, it takes away from a certain type of character - the skilled character. Now even if I make that called shot to the head I have to roll against armour to see if I stike the character or the armour still? That seems rather anti-climatic and hindering to me.

That is an admitted drawback, the extra rolling. On the called shot thing, that depends on if he's armored there. Shoot his head and he has no helmet, he's toast. Shoot the head and he has a helmet, he has a shot. Now, in most cases I find called shots detract from the game as it rapidly degenerated to "Boom! Headshot!" all around.

Misfit KotLD wrote:That is an admitted drawback, the extra rolling. On the called shot thing, that depends on if he's armored there. Shoot his head and he has no helmet, he's toast. Shoot the head and he has a helmet, he has a shot. Now, in most cases I find called shots detract from the game as it rapidly degenerated to "Boom! Headshot!" all around.

That kinda is the disadvantage of including targetable locations, eh?
Maybe a solution could be that a called shot detracts from the natural roll needed? So you make a difficult called shot (like a headshot) which gives you a -3 penalty to hit, you now need 3 less than the normal number to bypass armour.

Well, there is a problem with doing this as well, but I suppose nothing is perfect.

Dog_O_War wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:That is an admitted drawback, the extra rolling. On the called shot thing, that depends on if he's armored there. Shoot his head and he has no helmet, he's toast. Shoot the head and he has a helmet, he has a shot. Now, in most cases I find called shots detract from the game as it rapidly degenerated to "Boom! Headshot!" all around.

That kinda is the disadvantage of including targetable locations, eh?
Maybe a solution could be that a called shot detracts from the natural roll needed? So you make a difficult called shot (like a headshot) which gives you a -3 penalty to hit, you now need 3 less than the normal number to bypass armour.

Well, there is a problem with doing this as well, but I suppose nothing is perfect.

Yeah. I'd still add the called shot penalty and a possible armor save, but you're right. No system is perfect. Find the one that works for you and your group.

maybe for a way to cut on the rolling while making armor effective is to have it take half of the damage on a hit that bypasses the AR and for it to take all of the damage on a roll under it.

I use a similar system for MDC/SDC and it seems to work great.

That sounds like how we handle body armour in RECON games.

Natasha wrote:That sounds like how we handle body armour in RECON games.

what do you think of it?

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:maybe for a way to cut on the rolling while making armor effective is to have it take half of the damage on a hit that bypasses the AR and for it to take all of the damage on a roll under it.

I use a similar system for MDC/SDC and it seems to work great.

That's not a bad mechanic either.

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:

Natasha wrote:That sounds like how we handle body armour in RECON games.

what do you think of it?

I like it in RECON and I think that I can see how it would transfer into the megaverse SDC worlds very well, too. I'm not sure about MDC though since it doesn't have an AR.

The rules and nature of the campaign will alter your playstyle. Without the context of the campaign I can't really say this is a bad rule or a good rule.

A character with a boatload of SDC may prefer to take the hits and save his armour. A character on the other end of the spectrum, however, may not feel so bad about going through armour that fast, especially in games where PC bank accounts don't have to be very carefully managed.

In our RECON games we'd have our armour get shredded after only a few firefights, but replacement wasn't an issue unless we were mercs or had a penny pinching CO hehe. In a megaverse game the armour will get destroyed a lot faster, too, but we never used such a rule in megaverse games as we did in RECON games. While I remember running from combat plenty of times in PFRPG-1 because we couldn't afford the repairs that resulted from the hits we were taking and we couldn't beef up with Physical Skills since they don't exist in that game.

Natasha wrote:

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:

Natasha wrote:That sounds like how we handle body armour in RECON games.

what do you think of it?

I like it in RECON and I think that I can see how it would transfer into the megaverse SDC worlds very well, too. I'm not sure about MDC though since it doesn't have an AR.

The rules and nature of the campaign will alter your playstyle. Without the context of the campaign I can't really say this is a bad rule or a good rule.

A character with a boatload of SDC may prefer to take the hits and save his armour. A character on the other end of the spectrum, however, may not feel so bad about going through armour that fast, especially in games where PC bank accounts don't have to be very carefully managed.

In our RECON games we'd have our armour get shredded after only a few firefights, but replacement wasn't an issue unless we were mercs or had a penny pinching CO hehe. In a megaverse game the armour will get destroyed a lot faster, too, but we never used such a rule in megaverse games as we did in RECON games. While I remember running from combat plenty of times in PFRPG-1 because we couldn't afford the repairs that resulted from the hits we were taking and we couldn't beef up with Physical Skills since they don't exist in that game.

coolio

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:

Natasha wrote:

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:

Natasha wrote:That sounds like how we handle body armour in RECON games.

what do you think of it?

I like it in RECON and I think that I can see how it would transfer into the megaverse SDC worlds very well, too. I'm not sure about MDC though since it doesn't have an AR.

The rules and nature of the campaign will alter your playstyle. Without the context of the campaign I can't really say this is a bad rule or a good rule.

A character with a boatload of SDC may prefer to take the hits and save his armour. A character on the other end of the spectrum, however, may not feel so bad about going through armour that fast, especially in games where PC bank accounts don't have to be very carefully managed.

In our RECON games we'd have our armour get shredded after only a few firefights, but replacement wasn't an issue unless we were mercs or had a penny pinching CO hehe. In a megaverse game the armour will get destroyed a lot faster, too, but we never used such a rule in megaverse games as we did in RECON games. While I remember running from combat plenty of times in PFRPG-1 because we couldn't afford the repairs that resulted from the hits we were taking and we couldn't beef up with Physical Skills since they don't exist in that game.

coolio

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