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Bloodspray wrote:I've looked in BOM and RUE, the RUE errata, and searched the form, but came up dry.

It says that the save is standard, however it can be raised by one (-1 to save) with the addition of 3 PPE.

Is there an official ruling on an upper limit? If 3 can be pumped in, why not more? And if so, just how much?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Blinding Flash
Level 2
Range: 10 foot radius, up to 60 feet away
Duration: instant
Saving Throws: none
P.P.E.: 5
Blinds everyone with in a 10 foot radius with a sudden burst of intense real light. Victims are blinded fro 1d4 melees, -5 attack, -10 P/D, 50% chance of falling down every 10 feet of movement. All out side the 10 foot radius, and looking at the area, must save verses non-lethal poison or suffer the same penalties as those caught with-in the spell area of effect. The spell caster of this spell can blind himself if he is in the area of effect or is looking at the area or effect when it goes off.

Mephisto wrote:Bloodspray opened up a can of worms; if Blinding Flash can be more potent by pumping in extra P.P.E. why can't other spells do the same?

Bloodspray wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:And I'm not a fan of the spell, Drewkitty. Nothing implies that the light from Blinding Flash is anything less than real, visible, light. Robotic, bionic, and cybernetic eyes have flare compensators to deal with an instantaneous flash of light... flesh and blood eyes do not.

The fact that there are tech versions of the concept that do create real light, yet not require a save is what implies that Blinding Flash is anything less than real, visible light.

Granted, it should not work on anyone with anti-dazzle optics, but everyone else should be "hit" by it. The fact that there is a save means that it's not actual light that's creating the effect, thus the 'need' for a spell like Drews, or suggestion like Gadrins.

Mephisto wrote:Bloodspray opened up a can of worms; if Blinding Flash can be more potent by pumping in extra P.P.E. why can't other spells do the same?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I've actually read virtually all of the BF description. Along with it being listed among the list of Illusionary magic the HUr Illusionists can cast, and that cybernetic and bionic eyes are not affected. So mine is an informed opinion.

gadrin wrote:My suggestion...

rename it to: Not Always Blinding Flash


>

Bloodspray wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:And how do you answer "This invocation creates a sudden burst of intense, white light..." No mention of "seems to" or "illusion"... just that it's light.

My explanation... that some people will avoid it due to eyes closed, head turned, etc., and that a save vs. magic is the easiest way to deal with this, is far more reasonable, and sticks to a plain reading of the text.

Despite this being Palladium (the Anti-Sense), consistency is still key. Your explanation of a save does make sense, however, that leaves a few MAJOR problems. Firstly, if it's save vs magic, just for the sake of "ease", then you have a case of people with OCC based bonuses to save vs magic getting a boost, and even if you call that "experience with mages using blinding flash, ok, but that doesn't account for magic items that boost that save, they have nothing to do with experience, or reaction time, or anything else that might be involved in such "avoidance". Secondly, you have borgs, and people in welding goggles (and similar) getting affected if they fail their save, which, if it's just light, then how could that be possible? Thirdly, if the "save" is simply having your eyes closed or turning your head away, then why do you not lose your attack and/or initiative? And finally, why would all this not also apply to the technological version?

The easiest thing to do would be to simply drop the save. OR, assume it's a mental magic effect and not real light.