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While we wait for the new release date for the book, I thought I'd get some discussion going about a possibility specifically mentioned in Rifter #40. Because Unisane/the Z-Virus was genetically engineered to affect humans, it says that although zombies can attack animals to feed, the virus can NOT spread to other life forms. That can be good, because that could be a failsafe.

But failsafes can be tampered with. If you get someone smart enough, like an Analytical or Natural Genius from Heroes Unlimited, or someone like Doc Feral from TMNT capable of altering genes and genetic coding, the possibilities could be frightening. Suddenly the possibility of this infection jumping from species to species becomes a frightening one, and could turn the balance of power on such a world. What if Thinkers suddenly had control not only of its normal horde, but could command undead animals as well?

This also opens up to a real fear on an interstellar/interdimensional level! If the Z-Virus can be engineered to go from one species to another, then it could become a pandemic. The only ones that might be immune would be pure energy beings as well as mineral aliens, but there's still a HUGE possibility for fear.

So do you think there should be a supplemental rule in a Rifter for zombie animals? How many people here plan to make their own house rules for interspecies zombies?

Yes..Zombie dogs ala Resident Evil

I'm going to have to vote no on this one. If the virus were able to infect more than humans, there would be virtually no chance of survival in my opinion.

Look at what the damn crows/birds/ dogs did in Resident Evil: Extinction

What if it were a mutated strain/curse/spell/subliminal message that doesn't affect humans. Could you imagine the packs of slow moving cows roaming around looking to eat humans for all the eating they've had to suffer through? It would be just another threat to survival, but not infection.

One of my favorite undead comes from the Postal 2 expansion pack Apocalypse Weekend. Mad Cow Tourette Zombies! Let's see some shambling bovines!

Not really a Zombie, but acting some what zombie-ish... remember the Deer in Slither? lol

LOL, that was awesome.

"Remember that time I saved you from that deer?"

In most of the zombie movies I greatly enjoyed the zombie animals and our GM plans to add them to our campaign. I was talk to her about running a new game with movies like the Mist, the Happening and Clover field as source material. So many ideas from our group got thrown in that we needed 3 binder to hold our outline after two weeks of working it out. One thing that keeps coming up is that animals are not nearly included enough in movies compared to video games like Tomb Raider, I'm not saying I enjoyed killing endangered animals like tigers, but it sure added so spice. The relationship in Legend with Will Smith and his dog made the movie enjoyable and sad.

Well you gotta think there would be fewer animal zombies too. In general animals are a heck of alot quicker than humans and more prone to spook and flee a danger than stand there gape mouthed and get killed. More over their senses are sharper, they'd smell, and hear zombies coming before we would. The rotting meat smell would quickly be assioated with danger and they'd get out of dodge.

So other than like Zombie cows and the truely unfortunate zombie animals wouldn't totally overrun.

You could also apply some sort of weight measure... say... 45Lbs or so as the bottom cut off of what can be zombiefied... smaller than that and the body burns out before the zombie takes effect. That way you could have zombie dogs and such but every cat, rat and mouse arn't trouble. Just big things you have a better chance of seeig coming.

Also the type of zombie counts.. 99.9% of animals can out run a shambler. Even cows CAN run if they need to. Unless you have sprinters... zombies are only going to catch animals that are enclosed and what not.

Everyone's making great points, keep the input coming!

But then you run into the problem that human meat, by and large isn't LIKED by animals. They've done studies with bears and the like. When given a choice. 5 pounds of... Cow, pork, lamb, buffalo, elk, deer, ect ect ect vs 5 pounds of Long Pork (( Human flesh)) the bears pick the non human stuff 9 times out of 10. Think of all the chemicals we put in our bodies even if we're not taking meds. Then think of how many people you know that arn't on some sort of med. Probably not too many. Human meat is nasty.... er.. so I'm told. *nods*

Combine that with somesort of "Thing" That makes um go all Zombified and gross... and you're very likely adding rotting meat to the already bad tasting meat... In the 'prevew' it was a combination of Cancer cure and magic that turned um, (( but that came off looking like I am Legend so I belive it's been changed at least in part)) but it remains SOMETHING is Zombifying the dead.

Add to THAT... the fact that the true human population is decimated... all those fields all that food is just sitting, waiting to be eaten. The deer population alone in the US is going to skyrocket in 5 years, to the point of absurdity, with no humans killing, managing or scaring them, they'll be all over. And the animals that prey on deer will be all over. There will be an exponintial growth in such.

Think of the other animals. The critter's that get out of zoo's. Think of sneaking though the woods to try and hunt a deer only to get pounced and eaten by a tiger. Bummer...

But yes right at onset of the Rise, there would be some carrion.. and if you like, the carrion eaters, if they get a 'Fresh one" (( I.E. A body that died, turned zombie and was killed again very quickly)) They might feed.. and might go all Zombiefied too..

It's been brought up before in this thread more than once... but the Zombie Crows in Resident Evil um.... which ever one was in Vegas... Those were scary as hell! Something that would keep your player's on thier toes. You don't need to have them around allways but the sound of ratteling undead wings would give them a SERIOUS want to take cover and get out of sight.

In some other zombie games the "Plague" or 'reason for the raise' has jumped the species barrier but not universally. Dogs might contract it but cat's not... Cow's might get it but Llama's not. You gotta remember ZOMBIE doesn't really equal PURE SCIENCE. It's not playing by scientific rules. lol Even with out death cults causing it, just a normal Zombie survival horror game accepts at least in part, a mystical or unexplainable causation. If this is the case you can custom tailor it to the way you want.

In my games Dogs can be zombiefied.... so can some cats (( I'll go 50%)) Rats? No. Too small the zombie virus kills um too quick. Cows? Sure why not? It'll be good for one freak out scare and laugh. (( I'm not going to have herds of cattle chasing my players but one out of the blue when they're not expecting it will work great.)) Crows? Sure... Ravens? No. Why? Because I like ravens. *shrugs* that simple. Tigers? No, but Tiger's will still wanna eat you. Deer? Sure, I'll give them a chance too. The scene in Slither still sticks in my mind. Woodfinches? No...

Again it shouldn't be Zombie-Croc-hunter! Crikey! did you see the rot on that one! I think I'm gonna stick my head in it's mouth, just for **** and giggles. But the occassional "OH FRAK WHAT THE FRAK IS THAT!?!?!" in a game really spices it up. The players have enough to worry about with out zombie fleas making survival all but impossible, but crossing a field with a cow in it that suddenly lurches to life and tries to bite one while moo'ing in an undead manner will teach them not to take anything for granted. It can ADD to the game as long as you don't get stupid with it. But then, the ability to get stupid is very very high in a zombie game. lol Sometimes stupid is fun.

I love the idea of a giant swarm of zombie rats coming from the sewers, but I do see some guide lines would be needed to stop zombie animals from totally taking over. My gm thinks having animal quickly gaining Rigor mortis penalties that reduces attacks and speed to gives normal animals mobility advantage to survive. Having human zombies immunity to rigor mortis because of their high brain function. She suggested having the animal zombies being so feral that they will tare each other apart and lower the chance of others animals being effected.

It would depend on whether or not your players want a 'classical' zombie game, or a 'modern' twist on it. Both versions of the game have their plus and minus', but it is always fun to switch things up on the unsuspecting...

Classic, I would say no, or maybe 1 or 2, just for the 'HOLY-JUMPING-CRAP!" factor (like a gorilla or chimp or something genetically close to humans). Strict shamblers, with no brains at all, all the way would be my say on this.

On the other hand, for a more modern take, do the Resident Evil or Parasite Eve version, and make the virus mutate or capable of jumping the species barrier (maybe only dogs, birds, and something like an elephant or a hippo, just for that unstoppable behemoth). Maybe make the Zomb-Animals rot at an accelerated rate (total burn-out within 2d4 months), or unable to transmit the virus to humans, or something along those lines. Maybe give the Zomb-animals a longer 'gestation' period, meaning they could go for 2-3 days before turning (instead of the 2-3 hours compared to humans), or drastically reduce their accurate vision range.

Heck, if you really want to make surviving these things tough, make different tiers of Z's (ala Bugs from System Shock). You could have the standard Shambler (walks in a straight line and moans), a Runner (identical to the Shambler, only capable of moving at a full sprint), the Sirens (emit a piercing wail that incapacitates living beings [too painfull to move]), the Breeders (cabale of squirting out Zom-Babies who grow up to be Shamblers), the Tanks (not even as fast as the Shamblers, but possessing superhuman strength and damage capacity), the Thinkers (capable of learning how to open doors and such, but simple things only), the Freaks (TOTAl mutate, covered in a bony carapace, brain has migrated into the chest, crab claws, those sort of things) and finally the Revenants (Zombies who retain their smarts after being turned, and capable of directing the lower tiers).

Of course, if it is a viral outbreak, it could have an airborne version, meaning whole CITIES could be infected, and not know it until they croak. On the other-hand, maybe they could make a preventative shot or imuno-booster, so that it would be possible to get chomped from some of the lower tier Zed's and survive (provided they don't actually get EATEN by the Walking Dead). Whole ranges of things can be used to expand (maybe not improve, but definitly expand) on the basic premise of the Living Dead.

Undead paramecium

I love the rampaging zombie elephant idea. THAT is going into some game sometime.

I will probably have the Zombie virus jump species in some limited fashion and only specific genetics that have some sort of story reason attached, like rats used for cancer research or chimps and apes that have been hybridized with human DNA or other bizarro experiments just to throw in something odd on rare occassion.

Well, you could always have it function as other viruses do. Certain viruses only effect certain species, so the type that effects primates may not put the whammy on other types of mammals, but there could be a bovine type zombie virus that only effects cows, buffalo, etc, another that only messes with avians, and so on. Then, you'd have to determine if zombified animals attack anything living or just others of their kind.

Only a small number of them. They would be those that were geneticly able to contract Zombie-Itis.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:But then you run into the problem that human meat, by and large isn't LIKED by animals. They've done studies with bears and the like. When given a choice. 5 pounds of... Cow, pork, lamb, buffalo, elk, deer, ect ect ect vs 5 pounds of Long Pork (( Human flesh)) the bears pick the non human stuff 9 times out of 10. Think of all the chemicals we put in our bodies even if we're not taking meds. Then think of how many people you know that arn't on some sort of med. Probably not too many. Human meat is nasty.... er.. so I'm told. *nods*

Your quoted studie doesn't take into consideration animals that HAVE gotten that pound of flesh. Like a can of Pringels, once they POP, they Don't stop!
Such animals become man killers and even start to perfer it... And human tastes like Ham-fyi.
Lucky me... I HATE PORK

But your also forgetting some important Facts,
A) If you've got a raviously hunger animal, They WILL eat human flesh!
B) Humans don't perfer other Humans when animals are around! And yet, why then are the Zombie (who likely don't even need to eat) going after them-Answere= Magical Compulsion!
C) If an animal becomes contaminated, they're Not normal animals no more and will (Just like Human Zombies) go after humans... and generally Before other animals!

What this all spells out is, that animals Should be able to gain the infection should (in some rare case) they get bitten by an infected human, which isn't likely to happen, or for some reason (rabies, or living where no food is available-like citys) they go so feral/become so Ravenous that they go after a zombie or an infected but other wise dead corps.

Under these circumstances, it's likely they may turn on fellow pack members but, will (in time) come to ignore anyother animals in favor of non-infected Humans (even when and if only animals are all thats around they'll still wait fer years, if need be, for a human before turning on other animals).

This will give everyone what they want in that MAGIAL/SN compulsion to go after only one type of types of target objective is what will keep the Virus in check! Plus, If you add in that alternate Virus concept (Mutation), animals may very well cause it... MUCH more offten than humans... allowing fer odd ball Zombie dogs that Won't bite humans, and Can infect them even if they did...
Or Ultra Giant Zombie Sharks that are sooo hunger crazed, that they eat up every lil peive of what they bite, too the point of leaving Nothing to comback, despite what the original Geass of the virus would have normally instructed them to do!

Under all these circumstances, animals could make BAD carriers, but great (Non-common) occurance Zombies.

BRAIN FOOD FER THOUGHT!

. wrote:Your quoted studie doesn't take into consideration animals that HAVE gotten that pound of flesh. Like a can of Pringels, once they POP, they Don't stop!
Such animals become man killers and even start to perfer it... And human tastes like Ham-fyi.
Lucky me... I HATE PORK

I've heard about man eaters, I'm sure most everyone has but out side the occassional psycho critter (( and by this I mean truely crazy, like those two male lions from the "Ghost and the Darkness" Story, which was based off something that happened IRL with seriously mentally messed up critters)) but out side that do you have any 'proof' of the man eater/ prefering flesh thing, or is it just that in some area's the human ratio is so high or so easy to eat that the animals learn the ease out weighs the effort to hunt something that tastes better?

. wrote:But your also forgetting some important Facts,
A) If you've got a raviously hunger animal, They WILL eat human flesh!
B) Humans don't perfer other Humans when animals are around! And yet, why then are the Zombie (who likely don't even need to eat) going after them-Answere= Magical Compulsion!
C) If an animal becomes contaminated, they're Not normal animals no more and will (Just like Human Zombies) go after humans... and generally Before other animals!

A) If you're raviously hungry sure. but why would wild creatures be ravously hungry if humanity fell? The humans are no longer eating the prey, the highest rung of the food chain is vacent. Any predators will actually have more to choose from with man abandoning the citys. In most every bit off zombie fiction out there the animals can smell/feel the zombies coming and get the frak out of dodge. So the zombies arn't eating all the animals either. Seems the only time animals might eat infected fleash is after a "live" human kills a zombie and it drops. The moving zombies arn't stoping to let dogs snack on um after all and the dog's dont get close to them. I doubt they're going to stroll up and sit down to a picknick just because the zombie scares the poop out of them, stopped shambeling.
B) The zombies go after anything living. Animals just have, pardon the expression, generally a beter sensor suit than we do. Better sence of smell, better hearing, some have better eyes, and are still keyed much closer to the fight or flight instinct. The adverage animal will smell a zombie a mile off and decide "hurm. I think I'll head the other way" Humans on the other hand might not notice them till something is grabbing at them though the bushes.
C) If it's a zombie critter, thenyes. All bets are off. Then you have to decide on your type of Zombie critter. I prefer sprinter zombies. Shamblers just don't scare me. but most people here still seem to like the very high percentage of shamblers with a much smaller percentage of sprinters. If you have 20 shambeling dogs, it's still a shambler.. Tee up and swing. but Sprinter dogs.... THAT could be scary. Shambler cow? Comical. Spirnter Zombie Bull? SCARY.... shambler elephant. Quizzical Sprinter Rhino? WHoooo!

Pepsi Jedi wrote:I've heard about man eaters, I'm sure most everyone has but out side the occassional psycho critter (( and by this I mean truely crazy, like those two male lions from the "Ghost and the Darkness" Story, which was based off something that happened IRL with seriously mentally messed up critters))

I LUV that movie! Thank you for remembering it exists

Pepsi Jedi wrote:but out side that do you have any 'proof' of the man eater/ prefering flesh thing, or is it just that in some area's the human ratio is so high or so easy to eat that the animals learn the ease out weighs the effort to hunt something that tastes better?

All of the above and below (as I said). Proof (if you can trust Professor Wikipedia that is)
A) If you've got a raviously hunger animal, They WILL eat human flesh!
B) Humans don't perfer other Humans when animals are around! And yet, why then are the Zombie (who likely don't even need to eat) going after them-Answere= Magical Compulsion!
C) If an animal becomes contaminated, they're Not normal animals no more and will (Just like Human Zombies) go after humans... and generally Before other animals!

animals wouldn't be stupid and get bit

And animals aren't Yahweh, there're infallible and some (the few I mentioned) Will, Period, as matter of Fact(S), get infected.



And THOSE few that do are the Few that I spoke of!
Too many infect animals and you've got a Zero Sum RPG- (Which is great fer into those pointless "everyone dies" Europians kinda movies). But None is Far more unreallistic.

. wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:I've heard about man eaters, I'm sure most everyone has but out side the occassional psycho critter (( and by this I mean truely crazy, like those two male lions from the "Ghost and the Darkness" Story, which was based off something that happened IRL with seriously mentally messed up critters))

I LUV that movie! Thank you for remembering it exists

Pepsi Jedi wrote:but out side that do you have any 'proof' of the man eater/ prefering flesh thing, or is it just that in some area's the human ratio is so high or so easy to eat that the animals learn the ease out weighs the effort to hunt something that tastes better?

All of the above and below (as I said). Proof (if you can trust Professor Wikipedia that is)
A) If you've got a raviously hunger animal, They WILL eat human flesh!
B) Humans don't perfer other Humans when animals are around! And yet, why then are the Zombie (who likely don't even need to eat) going after them-Answere= Magical Compulsion!
C) If an animal becomes contaminated, they're Not normal animals no more and will (Just like Human Zombies) go after humans... and generally Before other animals!

Ehhh take it with a grain of salt... I flipped though the wiki and there's alot of information there that is iffy at best.

Take the wolves for example.. shy of one case in Inda, none of them were more recent than the 1800s.. which means it could just be storys... and many of those were blamed on werewolves and supernatural forces... and if you read them, read extreamly like the works of human serial killers.

The one case in india... also looks iffy. Part of it describes farmers that wouldn't leave their huts out of fear and what not which kinda doesn't lend the most factual documenting of the story...

So... in the last 200 years.. there's one pack that may or may not have terrorized some indian farmer's living in huts with goats.... I don't think that really does the species justice.. not only that but the other cases could be very simple (( as could the indian one)) something as simple as Rabies or the like

But even that didn't show that the wolves developed a "Taste for human flesh" over other things. The wiki said what I'd speculated before. If no other food were possible what so ever and the human incursion showed to be weak and easy pray, an animal MIGHt kill humans, but it doesn't 'favor them above all others'

Do I think NO ANIMAL WOULD EVER EAT A ZOMBIE? no of course not. But I don't think the animal kingdom would be like "Ohhh! look. Shambeling eats! lets sic um! Whoot!"

it'd be a last dich, no other recourse sort of thing if that. The Zombies also have a supernatural aspect (( No matter how they come out)) And animals tend to leave that stuff alone. *G*

Like I said... limited in numbers, and that's for the best, but fun when you come across them.

And we need human Zombies? That's a pretty lamo argument, and if you'd ever bother to Read anything of whats been written, ALL animals would NOT in fact be infected, and that's the descussion, and I'm sure that Most of us here don't mind a few of them one bit.

Thats why I chose the option I did.

Still not down with the zombie animal thing.

Have you guys seen the Planet Earth documentary on Discovery? There was a part of the show that had a type of fungus that basically created zombie ants. The took over their behavior and made them climb up to the highest point in the area, so when their head explodes, it showers the spores and infects more ants. Even the ants know this, and once there is any type of odd behavior, the other ants take the infected one away and drop him off far from the rest of the colony.

There's also that parasite that kills and takes the ant over, forcing it to climb up onto a blade of grass until it gets eaten then the worm lays eggs inside the new host. Crazy stuff.

However, I still think even if there are zombie animals, it should be some type of mutant strain that doesn't affect humans.

It would depend on the feel I am giving to the game. If I want my players to have a sense of hope I wouldn't use them. If I want to let them know that the world is SOL I would use zombie animals. To use them like in Resident Evil to me is just cheesy. Just imagine a mosquito transmitting the zombie virus like West Nile. The tone of the game is so different though I would really have to think about it.

Well just for reference for those not reading the entire thread but skipping to the end and going "That's dumb. duuuh huh"

I don't think anyone ment EVERY ANIMAL AND BUG ON EARTH, being infected. It was more the idea of a few breeds here and there or even a few animals in the breed here and there.

Kinda like one in a million humans is a thinker (( or what ever the percentage is)) Maybe one in a million dogs, instead of dieing, being infected. Or maybe just.... Dogs over 70lbs.... or maybe just 'house cats" but not ____EVERYTHING____.

What do zombie cows say?

"Grains!"


8p

I originally made this post to stress the possibilities of infected animals, but yes, under either controlled conditions like someone tinkering with the Unisane and their genetics so that it could affect a specific breed. But that way if a zombie dog bit another dog, it would spread to the dog, and possibly infect humans as well. I wasn't planning on going complete animal zombie genocide with ever animal, insect, plant, sea life, bacteria, etc. becoming zombiefied. If you want that, make it an extreme alternate DR world that even alien life won't touch for fear of contamination.

I was simply stating the possibility of isolated incidents of other zombie life forms, which if done right, can be pretty scary. By the poll results, I'd say you agree too with a rousing yes, but in small, isolated incidents.

Rift Jumper wrote:Okay, a viral strain that was infectious to humans and only rarely in animals of the predatory variety (I'm sorry, Zombie cows just seems silly) . I'll concede that certain strains of animal should be able to become infected, and it should be obvious which ones are.

Very well said.

Geronimo 2.0 wrote:

CyCo wrote:What do zombie cows say?

"Grains!"


8p

LOL!! Love it!!!! I'll be telling that at work tonight!

My pleasure. We've been saying that in our groups for years. Maybe it should be "What noise do zombie cows make, but it's all same in the long run. lol

Just say no, to zombie animals.

I voted are you out of your mind....


Having said that just cause, I have to say certain predators and scavengers would eventually get infected. However they may or may not seek out living flesh, some may become addicted to the decaying Zombie flesh.

OOOOOO!!! Zombie rabbit Runners! Well, technically dogs and other animals have a low degree of psionic ability under their descriptions, so why not?