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Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:33 am
by Captain Shiva
Has anyone ever had this happen in one of their games? I call this "co-playing," for lack of a better term. This is where a player choses a character, and apparently cannot play it without the assistance of another player. They have to ask the other player's advice for everything, including such matters as what spell to cast in a certain situation. I had it happen a while back, and it got really annoying. I concluded that it was a blatant attempt by the other player to have another character in play, without actually playing it. I'm sorry to say that I did not take any action at the time(in retrospect, I think what I should have done was told the first player that if he could play the character on his own,he could not play it at all.) I am not a big fan of table talk to begin with, and the second player was one of those players who constantly challenges every ruling the GM makes.This player is one of these people who thinks he knows the rules, but really does not, or simply ignores them when it suits them.I wish now that I had told him to leave the game. Anyway, I got a little off topic with my rant. If I ever encounter this problem again, how do you think I should handle it?
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:36 am
by Natasha
All players, which of course includes the GM, have to agree on player conduct before play begins.
Everyone must understand this is not allowed and agree to not do it. If they do, then something will have to be done about it.
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:40 am
by Misfit KotLD
I have seen it, but generally the player asking for help was inexperienced and getting some guidance from the more experienced players. "No, don't cast Fireball here, it'll get us too!" Of course, Steph ALWAYS cast Fireball where it got us too...
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:36 am
by Captain Shiva
I feel that player questions should be directed to the GM, who can then refer them to another player, if he sees fit.
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:01 pm
by cyber-yukongil v2.5
not quite that bad, but I have a buddy who can't make descisions without my input. Not in game really, but every little facet of his character he runs by me or asks my opinion on. I've been making his characters for years now and I guess I've "trained" him to do it, as it were.
In game he's fine and roles smoothly with the game, it's out of game though that it gets...odd.
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:02 pm
by Captain Shiva
I felt that the whole thing was orchestrated just so the other player could have another character to play. The first player came to me and asked to play this character, and seemingly had no idea how to play it, despite the fact that he had played before. While the idea of splitting or reducing XP has merit, if I had it to do over again, I'd just say, "Either play the character on your own or not at all." While that may seem a little harsh, I have had too many game sessions ruined by disruptive behavior, both as a player and a GM. When I go somewhere to game, that is what I do. Not to socialize, not to trade Magic cards back and forth, not to read soucebooks for other games, and cetainly not to roll up characters for other games. I have seen all these thing happen during game sessions.
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:58 am
by wodens_blade
.
I'd also be exceedingly light with their XP
and for anyone who helps them.
"Fred, you were going to get 1500 xp, but since you messed up the game by helping another play their character I'm going to give you 300."
Or split up between the two
>[/quote]
you give less experience for player interaction? Xp isnt there so you can penalize poeple for how they play there character.
"ok since you guys killed the demon with a rail-gun instead of the demon-killer sword i gave you im giving you less points"
sounds petty
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:30 pm
by ZorValachan
Captain Shiva wrote: If I ever encounter this problem again, how do you think I should handle it?
Ok, I'm going to try to give advice on the question, not that past occurance, because it sounds from the post that it happened some time ago and not a current issue.
It really depends on -who- your group consists of.
Natasha Summed it up best with
"All players, which of course includes the GM, have to agree on player conduct before play begins."
The GM and Players are not adversaries. And unlike what a lot of people think, the GM is not some 'god' who is the only one to make decisions on the game.
Did you ever have a pre-game discussion where not only the setting/system was decided, but the tone and style? If the GM is going for hard-core epic save-the-world campaign with no OOC talk, socializing etc. and his group are all friends who only see each other 1x a month (game night) and want an in the dirt and gritty campaign in which every copper is earned there is bound to be trouble because parameters were not set for the game.
My personal group are my best friends for the last 10-17 years. And we've had our share of 'drama' and most of it was because we would decide on a system+setting, but not the style or 'table rules'.
It sounds like your group was more of just gamers getting together, not friends. That makes it easier to ban a bad player. Just remember GMs can be impeached too.
I used to give negative EPs for really really stupid things players would do, but it was always small (-10, to -50), but cutting down a big chunk of EPs... you might not only lose that player (which you might not care about) but multiple players or the whole group by being petty and vidictive instead of fair and impartial.
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:55 pm
by Spinachcat
Captain Shiva wrote:If I ever encounter this problem again, how do you think I should handle it?
1. Wear the Viking Hat. It grants the ability to cast "Power Word NO"
2. Do not be petty with XP. That's childish.
3. Be clear with table rules and expectations before starting campaigns.
4. When dealing with player actions, look them directly in the eye and ask them what their character is doing. If they defer to another player, then their character is taking their action to talk to a fellow character. Move on to the next player. If a player loses a few actions due to inaction, they will swiftly get on the ball.
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:17 pm
by Captain Shiva
Immoblie and mute!!??
Details, please. Your two cents is welcome(please feel free to send more money at any time,) and I tend to agree with your approach. I look at it this way: if you cannot play without another player's constant assistance, then you are playing the wrong character. And if you get any advice on rules and such, they should come only from the GM. What I to do is sit down with each player, alone, and ask them this: What would you like your character to be able to do? Then we pick an OCC or RCC as apppropriate. I find that this one on one method of character creation helps new players learn the rules quicker and better, as they get some idea how the system works as they go. It also helps find and resolve rule-related issues that arise due to sloppy editing. So, by the time the player sits down to play, they should have a pretty good idea what to do.
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:24 am
by Grell
I've only seen this in D&D with two or more spell casters, while being in different locations in game, advise each other on spells to use and tactics to employ. As a fellow player it was aggravating, so I can imagine how it was for the DM. I think most of the advice already given is pretty good, so I have nothing new to add in that regard.
Although, I wouldn't dock XP per se. Instead I would lessen the threat rating or difficulty of the situation he/she consulted on (major to minor/clever idea to good judgment/etc...)
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:29 am
by Severite
I tend to be looser about this, now, if the player is ok with being a tool, who am I to question? Of course, the caveat is the interaction being actively disruptive? If not, then let it go. Course the group I play with are derailment monkeys, cracking jokes, over the top (mock) actions, and otherwise being something of a nuisance, so Im pretty tolerant. Now, if they are ruining other peoples fun as a whole, then its time for something to give, and the most expedient way is to force a weening process. "Hey, thats really annoying, we have decided we dont want to wait anymore for you discuss it, so start having both characters use turns as they figure out what they are doing, or at least eat negatives to perform actions due to being distracted.
Re: Anyone else ever have this happen?
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:06 am
by Captain Shiva
Sardonis wrote:Killgore, I agree. I like to let the newbies eat it sometimes... Fireballs on the group are great. Although the best one ever was a bunch fighting frost giants in D&D and threw a fireball on them as I just said double damage to fire(Whole group screamed NO! but I overrode the group and let it continue.). Hit the entire party but most of them had evade and all saved--lots of dead giants too. Was the coolest successful newb moment ever from being over eager. Could of destroyed the party too.
I've not GM'ed for Rifts yet. Although as a GM in general I would pay close attention to what advice a person asks for consistently and ONLY let them ask me unless I differ them. My players will get one chance to be clueless and they all better listen to the answer, because next time one of them asks the question I'll look'em dead and tell, "Them that answer has been given, WHAT DO YOU DO?"
I think I can beat the frost giant story. I was once playing AD&D, and a player who should have known better kept rolling badly. He had a magic item of some sort that gave him wishes, and he uses it. "I WISH THAT ALL ATTACKS HIT!!"
For really new players I coach them before we play on all their assets. In fact, after such coaching many of my new players present more ingenuities than my seasoned players.
XP penalties: Never do that for social action. Teach them to keep interplay to a minimum or to learn how to lean/whisper.
I used to be the player always reading from the books. I was taught to put the books away during play. The only time something should be cracked is to certify a ruling. It free's up players from distraction.